Why Podcasting? | Teal Talk

Why Podcasting? | Teal Talk


[MUSIC PLAYING] JENNY GUY: Hello, everybody. It is Thursday,
March 27, and it is time for another
edition of Teal Talk. We are so glad
that you are here. I apologize for
our late start, we had a couple of technical
difficulties, which, as you know, never happens
with any live interactions that you have. They always go
perfectly smoothly. And today, we are
welcoming Don Jackson. I’m so excited that he’s here. He is not only my friend, not
only an amazing podcaster, he also has a pretty
epic beard that I’m sure you can see
from your screens. Hi, Don. Welcome to Teal Talk. DON JACKSON: Hi, Jenny. How are you? JENNY GUY: I’m doing well. And yourself? DON JACKSON: Not too
bad, not too bad. Just hanging in there. JENNY GUY: I like that artwork
that’s happening behind you. That’s a good look. It’s nice. DON JACKSON: It’s
a personal piece. JENNY GUY: OK. You did that yourself? That’s good. Not only a podcast
with an epic beard, but also artist extraordinaire. All right, Don. So Don owns the
Raven Media Group. Tell me what the
Raven Media Group is. DON JACKSON: So the
Raven Media Group is basically an outlet
for brands, companies to get an online presence. So be it podcasting,
be it blogging, video. What we like to do
is do a 3D model of what you can do with
your brand or your business. Don’t just– give them the
audio reading material– [INAUDIBLE] the whole thing. [INTERPOSING VOICES] JENNY GUY: Right,
give them [INAUDIBLE].. Awesome. DON JACKSON: Yeah. JENNY GUY: And today
what we’re going to do is talk about podcasting. Because that is, I think,
one of your specialties. And I’ve seen you at conferences
around the country talking about that. So let’s kind of do a
little introduction today. How did you get into
podcasting to begin with? DON JACKSON: Well, I started
a blog after my son was born, and I realized quite
quickly I am a– [AUDIO OUT] And so, from there,
I decided, I’m a way better talker
than I am a typer. So I decided to start a podcast,
and I started the Dad Spotlight with my co-host
Christopher Lewis. And that once-a-week drop
turned into two-week drops. So we have, I think,
140 or 160 episodes. I can’t remember,
it’s been a while. We’ve been doing it
for about three years. JENNY GUY: Awesome. DON JACKSON: Yeah. So that’s how I got– [AUDIO OUT] JENNY GUY: OK. And you’re freezing
a little bit, so I’m hoping this is
going to stop soon. OK. But you podcast for
yourself, but you also kind of preach podcasting for
all business and brand owners. So tell me a little bit about
why that is so important. Why do you think it’s
such an essential factor to brand growth? Uh-oh, he’s frozen. Hopefully he’ll be
back in just a second. OK. I think he is totally frozen. Don, are you still there? Let me see if anyone
is seeing him. OK. It looks like we have lost Don. Hi, everybody, I apologize
so much for this. He went out for a second. Hopefully, he’ll come again. As soon as we get him back
in, we’ll talk about this. There we go! DON JACKSON: There we go. JENNY GUY: Hi. DON JACKSON: Yeah. I switched because I noticed
we were having an issue. JENNY GUY: We were
having an issue. Let me repeat the question. DON JACKSON: OK. JENNY GUY: You were
saying that you got into– so you started a
blog when your son was born, and I believe it’s
called Daddy Newbie. Is that correct? DON JACKSON: Yes. JENNY GUY: Great. OK. So Daddy Newbie is
your blog, and then after that you decided,
because you did not enjoy the writing
aspect as much, to expand into podcasting. And you started Dad Spotlight. OK. And then after
that, you’ve kind of become an evangelist
for podcasting all across the internet. You go to conferences
and you preach that it’s an essential
aspect of growing your brand, and creating, as you
were saying earlier, what Raven’s all about, which
is that three-dimensional brand. Tell me why you
think podcasting is so important for blog owners? DON JACKSON: Well, here’s where
we start spewing out numbers. JENNY GUY: OK. DON JACKSON: And I will
start with this number. JENNY GUY: Numbers
are fascinating. DON JACKSON: Yes, they are
two almost only accountants or mathematicians. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So I
will tell you this, there’s 36 million
people that commute daily in the United States. That commute time is usually
between 26 to 28 minutes. So my thought process
with everybody is this– can you read when
you’re driving? Most likely not. Can you watch a video
when you’re driving? Most likely not,
even though there are people that do all kinds
of stuff when they’re driving they’re not supposed to. So you can’t do any of
those things safely. But what you can do
is you can listen. So podcasting is
like a passive way to get people to
listen to stuff. Because let’s say they can
have it in the background while they’re working, you
can say a couple of key words and it usually will perk
people up, and they’ll go, well, I got to listen to this. And so that’s
different than video. Because in video, you
have to focus on what’s going on like right now. You have to focus on this
beard– you can’t look away. JENNY GUY: It’s mesmerizing. DON JACKSON: It is. In the skunk-like
fashion that it is. And with podcasting,
it’s different, because you have that
captivating audience for that time. They can hear you, and you’re
not taking anything away from them. So granted, you have to
have those other two, but of the three, podcasting
is the best way for you to get your information out
there without being bothersome, without having them
to do something extra. They can just put it in their
ears, put it in the background, and just go about
their business. So for us, that’s
why we focus on that. JENNY GUY: Yeah. And I definitely think I’m
seeing more and more people, that’s what they do
when they’re exercising, that’s what they do
when they’re on planes, that’s what they do– they download podcasting
episodes for downtime. Because it’s easy. All you have to have is
your earbuds and your phone, and you’re all set to go. DON JACKSON: Yeah. Or if you’re like me,
I don’t read books, I just listen to them. So I’m that lazy. I’m just like, I
can’t even do that. JENNY GUY: I can’t be bothered. You need to talk to me. You need to speak to me. DON JACKSON: Yeah. JENNY GUY: OK. So if I’m a blogger and I have
an established blog– let’s say I’ve been blogging
for three or four years, and I already have a
massive amount of content– but I’m going to
start podcasting, do I need to write a blog
post for every episode of my podcast? Do they have to go
together in that way? DON JACKSON: No. So two things here–
so you already have a built-in audience. Your podcast can
live on your website. It doesn’t have to
live anywhere else. You have to upload
it from somewhere, and that’s where you pay for
a hosting site for there. But you don’t have to pay
for an additional website to house it– you can
have it right there. But you already have
built-in content right there, so what you do with that
content is just repurpose it. It’s now a show idea. So you use that as your
outline for a new episode. And then what’s
great about it is you have your show notes, which
is now your podcast, which is now your blog post. You put your SEO in there,
you put your links– two birds, one stone. And if you video your
podcast, then you have a visual element, an audio
element, and a way for them to digest that information
through reading. So three birds, one stone,
because you can just rip the audio from your
video and you’re right there. JENNY GUY: More
and more content. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And it’s a way for people
to digest your content. It goes back to
that conversation, where it’s hard for some
people to read on a bus. I mean I get carsick
if I’m reading. JENNY GUY: Same. DON JACKSON: And so if I’m
listening, the other great part about listening,
you can be a creeper and just start looking at
people and people-watch. So there’s that added element. JENNY GUY: Many
birds, one stone– creeper. DON JACKSON: Yeah. Yeah. JENNY GUY: Podcast
listener, blogger– all the things
that you need to be can be happening simultaneously. Excellent. DON JACKSON: This is most
likely going to go viral. So you’re welcome. JENNY GUY: I think it’s– yes. I think it’s probably
already in progress. So I’ve decided I want
to start a podcast. Give me podcasting 101. What are the first
steps I should take? DON JACKSON: Well, the first
step, and usually what we do, is we teach people
how to podcast. So what we do is
we tell them, hey, it should be inception
of idea until you drop your first episode, and
we’ll put a pin on that one and come back to that subject. So from the beginning of idea
to dropping your podcast, it should be about
four to six weeks. JENNY GUY: OK. DON JACKSON: You don’t
want to rush anything. Take your time. Do the things you need to do. So the first thing you
think of is, what am I doing this podcast for? Is it a driver to a
product I’m selling? Is it a driver to my website? Is it to make me more
sound more professional and get my name out there? You have to decide what
that’s going to be. So for me, I just like
people to hear me, and I just want people
to know who I am. I have one follower, but
that’s beside the point. JENNY GUY: That one person
is well versed in you. DON JACKSON: Yeah. It’s a person I made
up– but anyway. JENNY GUY: OK. Perfect. DON JACKSON: So what you want
to do is decide on that idea. And the other thing
you do when you decide on what you’re
going to do with it and what the purpose of it is
for, the second thing is, can I be passionate about
this particular topic from inception of
idea to episode 200? And you’ve got to
look at it like, I need to be at episode
200, because there’s a statistic out there that
says most podcasts don’t last past seven episodes. JENNY GUY: Wow. DON JACKSON: That’s kind
of the magic number. JENNY GUY: Really? DON JACKSON: Yeah. And because a couple of
things come into play here– one, everybody looks at
their download numbers. And I tell everyone of our
clients, look at your download numbers only as a tool to help
you figure out what’s working, not how many people
are following and how many people
listening, that’s going to take care
of itself eventually. If you have good content,
they’re going to come. It just takes time
to be noticed. Because not all of
us are Dax Shepard, so we don’t have already a
built-in one million followers. So we’re just Joe Guy down
the street or Jill Girl down the street, who are only
known in our neighborhood with probably five people. So you’re not going to get– a good number to look at, if you
get 5,000 to 10,000 downloads per episode and you don’t have
really name recognition, that’s outstanding. Even if you have 1,000
downloads, that’s outstanding. So don’t get caught up in
looking at download numbers. And that’s what people do,
and they get discouraged. And then they’re going,
I’m not doing it, nobody’s listening to me. And that’s when
you’re really actually just starting to hit your stride
as far as finding your voice. And that’s the other
thing I would tell people. When you start, it’s
a weird thing to say, but you have to find your voice. When I first started podcasting,
I was like, (MUMBLING) hello, my name is Don
Jackson, how are you? I’d like to talk
about this topic. I love being a dad. So I sounded like a dude
from NPR, and that’s not me. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: It took me a
while to get comfortable. And usually, by
the seventh episode you’re really comfortable,
and you’re really starting to hit your stride. So be confident
in your material. Because here’s the
thing, your listeners are going to know you’re BS. They know you’re not
being serious with them and actually are
excited about the topic. You can fake a lot of things– I’ve had a lot of
girlfriends, I know this. But there’s certain
things you can’t. If you pay attention, you
know you can’t do that. So be genuine. And make sure when you’re
picking that topic, you’re going to be genuine. And then you just
start the process. You know you start recording. You start practicing. The easiest way to get started
podcasting and the hardest thing to do is hit record. I’ve had I’ve had guests on– because I produce
a lot of podcasts, and when we get a guest
on, usually, I’ll get on– Jenny, you’ve been
on the end of couple my conversations with how
to be a guest on our show– and it’s funny, everybody thinks
that as soon as you have record you’re live and you
can’t take anything back. But some podcasts I’m on,
it’s heavily, heavily edited. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: So if you mess up– I always tell everybody– who cares? Just tell me, hey,
Don, cut that. I want to start over. And guess what? We can start over. And so that’s what you can do. Don’t get caught up in
thinking I have to be perfect the whole entire way. Because that’s the
magic of editing, you can fix anything
that happens. JENNY GUY: Unlike right
now, where if you mess up, it’s out there and you’re
kind of just screwed. So sorry about that. DON JACKSON: Oh, I’ve been– we’ve started this
messed up, and it’s just completely went sideways. JENNY GUY: Right, it was
messed up from the beginning and it’s just continuing. It’s tanking. DON JACKSON: Yeah. JENNY GUY: So Tara
Jacobsen asked, what are the topics of the shows
that Don thinks do the best? DON JACKSON: This my favorite
thing, and it’s always, it depends on your audience. Because you’ve built this
podcast for your audience. So what works for me
necessarily isn’t going to work for somebody else. So you know your audience. So if you look at your
download numbers, and let’s say you’re working
on underwater basket weaving– that’s your topic. And you have the world’s
greatest basket weaver, but then your next guest is the
greatest underwater basket m and that one gets
your most downloads. So you go about what
that topic actually. So in it, it was
talking about how to eat raisin
brands while you’re putting a basket together. JENNY GUY: Underwater. DON JACKSON: And
for some reason– yeah, and for some
reason people got that. JENNY GUY: It resonated. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And it goes back to when
people tell me, well, what’s a perfect podcast length? Again, it goes to whatever– two things here– your
audience thinks they can do. And the second thing
is however long it takes you to get
your message across or what you’re trying to
accomplish from that episode. There is three-minute
podcasts out there. There’s a guy that has
an eight-hour podcast. That dude gets, I think
it’s like 12,000 downloads. JENNY GUY: Wow. DON JACKSON: I’m like,
are you kidding me? I couldn’t– I can’t even
sleep for eight hours, let alone listen to a
podcast for eight hours. But he has 12,000 people who
listen to him religiously. JENNY GUY: Does he go
steadily for eight hours? DON JACKSON: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I’ve never listened
to it, because– JENNY GUY: Right, because– eight hours. DON JACKSON: –I don’t
want to give away eight hours of my life. I kind of like it. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: It’s
boring most days, but I think I [INAUDIBLE]
something other than listen to a dude talk for eight hours. But that’s his audience. That’s what his
audience expects. That’s what they’re looking for. So topics, and time, and
length of your podcast has everything to do with
what your audience is. And you’re an extension
of that audience. So when you have a
guest and you’re a host, you’re asking the
questions that you think your audience wants you to ask. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: And you’re
an extension of them. Yeah. So it depends on
what you’re doing, I guess would be the thing. And what resonates. JENNY GUY: Lawyer answer. You gave a lawyer answer. DON JACKSON: It is a lawyer. JENNY GUY: It depends. DON JACKSON: I did. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: Yeah. I worked with
Jamie this morning. JENNY GUY: Oh, she’s
rubbing off, rubbing off. OK. Jamie [? Hanig ?] Lieberman,
who has been a guest frequently on Teal Talk. If anyone has any more
questions for Don or I, please feel free to post
them in the comments. I’m going to keep going, though. So let’s talk about
podcast structure. I think that that kind
of is a natural extension of Tara Jacobsen’s question
about what top topics. So you decide on a topic,
and a lot of the people– I think a lot of our listeners– they already have a sense
of what that topic is or what that audience
is, because they already have a brand that they’re
working to promote. So what are the most
successful structures of podcasts, and what types
of podcasts fit best where? DON JACKSON: Again, this goes
back to you, and your message, and your voice. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So how we like to– if we’re working with
a company or a brand, this is what we call a
basic structure, where you have the intro
of the episode, which is voice over music with you
introducing your podcast. And then you have an interview
or your intro to the interview. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: And then you’re
going to have a bumper. We’re going to put a pin
in that bumper real quick, and I’m going to come
right back to it. So after that, then you go
to your main interview– this is if you’re doing
an interview style or even a monologue style. Then you have
another bumper that leads to your outro, where
you talk about the takeaways from the episode. JENNY GUY: OK. DON JACKSON: And you kind
of tease what’s coming up. And then you go to your
voiceover outro with the music and giving them
a call to action. You also want to give
him a call to action in– again, depending on what you’re
trying to do with the podcast, it could be, hey, go to
our Facebook group page and let’s talk about
this topic that we have. When I go peanut
butter, you go blank. JENNY GUY: Jelly! DON JACKSON: Yeah. So whatever you
want put with it. JENNY GUY: Chocolate! DON JACKSON: Yeah. And then you can have them
banter back and forth. So sometimes you
want to have that– especially if you
have a Facebook group, you don’t want to
make it too serious. You don’t want to go,
so tell me what you think of the Mueller report. You know you don’t want
anything like that. You want something
really simple, sweet, but it has something to
do kind of with a topic. Like like Jamie and
them’s last episode, it was I think they’re working
on basically exposure– online exposure, what do you
do with that stuff. So your question would be,
what was your biggest fear when you put yourself out there? What would you think
was going to happen? And I think, for a
lot of people, what’s great about podcasting,
and the other thing I forgot to mention
why I like it, is because it shows
the human part of you. So you can interact
with these people. The greatest story that
could ever tell anybody is the 1960
presidential election debate between Richard
Nixon and John F. Kennedy. This was the first time a
debate was ever broadcast on TV. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: People that
watched the broadcast thought Kennedy just whooped Nixon. Nixon was sweating, he
had a lot of makeup on, and he just looked fidgety. And of course,
Kennedy just looked– the dude was hot. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So, come on. But people that
listened to the debate thought it was the
other way around. They thought Nixon
had great answers. They thought he had the issues
covered and Kennedy didn’t. And so it all goes
about perspective. So I think it’s important that
when you do all that stuff you remember it. So let’s talk about those two
bumpers that we put in there. Those two bumpers are,
later on, going to be– these are like Pavlov’s dogs. Because later on,
they’re going to be ads. But since you’ve
first started out, you’re most likely
not going to have ads. JENNY GUY: Right DON JACKSON: If you
do have a service, you’re going to want to put
your services there right away. But if you don’t– let’s say
you’re just doing exposure for you as an expert– then you want to
monetize your podcast. So you have two
areas right there automatically that’s built-in
that you can put in there. And one’s first, so
the first bumper is going to be your premium one. You’re going to go, hey, listen,
all my listeners are right here, they’re going
to go right into it. You’re center stage right there. So the second one, you
charge a little bit less. But that’s where you put– that’s where you get added
value for your podcast and you can actually
start paying for it. JENNY GUY: [INAUDIBLE]. DON JACKSON: So to
answer your question, there’s thousands of styles
out there you can do. That’s just a basic
one that we do and we recommend to our clients. But you can also play off that. I have one client
that starts out with bloopers of the actual
podcast episode [INAUDIBLE].. So it’s just 45 seconds of
one laugh after another one. What do I say after I
return from a break, and then I’ll come on
and go, welcome back. It’s stuff like
that that on there. And then we have
other clients that– my podcast starts out with
Chris’s daughters or my son saying, Dad Spotlight episode. My son’s 8 now, so when we first
started he was in the 4 to 5 range. So the voice
sounded really cute. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: Now he’s
becoming olderish now, so the voice is less cuteish JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: But
it’s still there. So it can be anything
you want it to be, I guess, is the answer. JENNY GUY: But you definitely
want to build in those spots where you can monetize later. And we’re going to talk a little
bit more about monetization in a bit. But definitely, looking
forward and establishing– is it important to
establish that structure from the beginning? Do you see people that bounce
around a lot what structures? Or is it something that you
want to give a very clear– people talk about publishing
content on expected days– you want to give
the audience an idea of what going they can expect
and what they’re going to get. DON JACKSON: I think some
people are turned off by– like a blogger for
sponsored posts. Some of their followers
don’t really care for those. So if you establish right
away, day one, that, hey, guess what, there’s going to be. So here’s the best part
about creating those bumpers or those ads later on– you create them at
15-second intervals. So it’s either 15 seconds,
30, 45, or 60 seconds. The reason why that is, almost
every podcast player out there has a 15 second skip. So if they do want
to listen to it, they just hit the skip
button for 15 seconds. They hear the
commercial’s still going, hit it for another 15 seconds,
and if it’s done at 30, then they’re good. So each time they
know it’s not going to be more than 60 seconds. And then you do it that way. That’s if it’s an established,
what we call a advertise. Which means, the hot one
would be if you’re reading it. Let’s say, my episode today is
brought to you by Sherman Oats And at Sherman Oats we make
we make pies with oats, and they’re delicious. And you’re reading– JENNY GUY: Gross. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And you’re reading what
they’re actually saying. So you can’t really script
that, because then you don’t know how long it’s going to be. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So we
encourage people to do that, but don’t have it very long. And then if you’re
going to do a long one, go ahead and put it
where that bumper is. Have it more established
so they can do it and your listeners
have a choice. Then they can choose to listen
to it or not listen to it. People love choices. And so when you force
them into stuff, they’re going to be,
you’re not my boss. You’re not my supervisor. You’re not going to
tell me what to do. And that might turn people off. But again, it goes to you
understand your listeners. Because if you
already have a blog, you already understand what
they’re coming to expect. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So if they know you
do a lot of sponsored content and stuff like
that, they’ll know your podcast is most likely
going to have some ads, and it might be helpful to them. And what you can do too
is you can include a link to that particular company
or sponsor in your show notes and they can do it there. And then some people develop– kind of like what
your company does. JENNY GUY: Oh! DON JACKSON: And you can
get stuff that way as well. So it depends on how
you want to do it. But there’s a lot
of ways to monetize your podcasts without being
too in-your-face about it. JENNY GUY: Too salesy. DON JACKSON: Yeah. Yeah. JENNY GUY: OK. So we know that you have to
have some equipment to podcast. You can’t just wake
up in the morning and decide I’m going to podcast
today, and here is my computer. I’m going to talk at it, and
then I will have a podcast. But I also know that
it’s become an industry to where there’s all the
gear, and all these websites, and all this really
expensive stuff that you can drop several thousand dollars. And I was kind of wondering,
I wanted you to give us a little bit of insight
on what is essential, what do I have to have to
go, and what are the frilly– if I start to be a
little bit successful, I’ll spend money on this. How do you see that scaling out? DON JACKSON: So if you’re– what I always
recommend where people want to try to start a podcast
is do it on the cheap in areas you can do it on the cheap. So spend money where
you should spend money. Don’t spend money where
you don’t need to. If you’re going to have just an
interview style where it’s you and somebody else, all
you need is your laptop. And the best advice I can
gave you is spend money on a good microphone. That doesn’t mean spend a lot
of money on a good microphone. I have, in my home studio. I have a [? Heil PR-40, ?]
and that’s a $600 mic. It’s a very expensive mic. The best mic that we
recommend for people is the Audio Technica ATR2100. That microphone is about– I think right now on Amazon
you cab get for like $61. So– yeah, see. That awesome thing right there. What’s great about that
microphone is it’s two things– it’s an XLR mic and
it’s an USB mic. Which means that USB goes
in the bottom of your mic and goes right into your laptop. That microphone sound quality
is just a slightly less than the Heil. So you don’t have to spend
that much money to have that type of microphone. And then the other
thing you want to do is have a pair of
headphones that don’t have a mic attached to it. You want to plug that into
your bottom of your ATR, and that’s also going
to be for when you edit. I can tell you
that I can teach– and we do at my
company, we teach people how to edit, produce, put
out a whole podcast together. Editing is just time-consuming. So for every half
hour episode, you’re going to want to
add an hour to it. So if I have a half hour episode
it shouldn’t take me an hour and a half just get just to
get rid of the uhs and ahs. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: Because when
you’re listening to it you’re cutting it. So you’re listening
to the episode, but you have to go back
to see if it works. Now, if you’re doing production
and editing at same time, go ahead and add another
half hour on to that, because you’re cutting
everything as you go. So that’s two hours. If you are a
product-based business, two hours of your
time takes away from you selling for two hours. So you have to decide, do
I spend the money there? And for everybody,
anybody can do it. Production is a
little bit different. Production’s kind of an art. Production is when I put
the whole podcast together. So that’s from introduction
to outro music and everything. So I’ll listen to a thing,
and what you want to do is you want to make sure
that the expert that you have on actually sounds
like an expert on there. Because, again,
people get flustered, and they sometimes
give you War and Peace, like I’m giving right now,
instead of the cliff notes version. And you want to do is you want
to compact that a little bit. So if I’m doing
production on it, I hear that they started really
strong at the beginning of this 12-hour synopsis– JENNY GUY: Dissertation on– DON JACKSON: Yeah. And in the middle they
stunk a little bit. It wasn’t that great. But at the end, they
closed it really strong. JENNY GUY: Pulled
it back around. DON JACKSON: Yeah. So you go, I don’t need
this, I don’t need that. But if you’re good
at production, if you’re a good
podcast productionist, then you don’t have to
write anything down. I heard that there, and I
know I got to cut it here. And I know the things
that I’ve got to cut to bring everything together. That takes time to do that. Some people can
never, never do that. But it gets to
where you understand the flow of the conversation. It should be a good flow
from beginning to end. So just to start a
podcast, if you’re just going to do it on
your own and you want to do all that
stuff yourself, I would say be prepared– that’s counting hosting
for your podcast– to spend about $200-$250. JENNY GUY: OK. DON JACKSON: When
I first started, I was listening to all
the big people out there. I’d name names, but that
would be mean and hurtful and everything else. But I spent $1,600. That was just on the
equipment, because they said I need this big mixer, and
I need this, and I need that. And before you knew it,
everything added up to this. And I didn’t
realize at the time, that their information that
they were sending me also had their links to it. So they were getting
a cut of that. So that’s why they
wanted me to spend– JENNY GUY: Oh, nice. DON JACKSON: [? –on ?]
the [? bigger ?] stuff. Yeah. So for me, when I talk
to people, I tell them, listen, there’s more
than enough people out there that need
the work I have, so the equipment
I tell you to use isn’t because I’m getting
a kickback from it, it’s because I really
believe in the equipment. And I don’t think you have to
spend thousands of dollars, even $1,000 to start a podcast. You can start a podcast or two
or $250 with that equipment that I just mentioned,
and that’s it. [INAUDIBLE] how many
people use Audacity. It’s an editing software. It’s free, simply because
it’s pretty simple. And you don’t need to
get really technical. There’s all kinds of software
out there that help you edit. That’s if you have PC. If you’re unfortunate and
have an Apple product, then it already comes
with Garage Band. JENNY GUY: Ooh, burn. DON JACKSON: It already
comes with Garage band. JENNY GUY: Sick burn. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And so it’s already built-in,
you can use Garage Band there. And then you can record just
off Skype if you want to. And there’s a couple
of programs out there. Ecamm is for PC. You can record a
Skype or GoToMeeting. Callnote is one that we
use and we recommend. And those are about a
one-time purchase, I think, of about $20-$30. So it’s not horribly bad. And that’s about it. I mean it doesn’t– podcasting isn’t rocket science. You don’t have to be
super smart to do it, it’s just time-consuming
with a lot of stuff and a little
overwhelming at times. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: It’s just if
you can get past that part, then you’re going to go. JENNY GUY: Do you think– so outsourcing, in terms of
how much is too much to pay? Do you go out and look
for an editor initially, or do you try to muddle
through on your own? Like you said, for
the two hours that you could be spending
editing your podcast, you could also be
spending selling. And what do you normally
pay for a service like that? DON JACKSON: So let me
preface this by saying– JENNY GUY: It depends? DON JACKSON:
–that’s already when you have all of your
shortcuts, the two hours that I just told you to
put all that together. Because the first time you
put your podcast together, you’ve got to create shortcuts. You’ve got to create
your intro and outro shortcuts with your music
and everything else. And then you’ve got
to create those, and then you’ve got to
put them all together. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So your
first actual episode should probably take you
between 3 and 1/2 four hours with everything that
you’ve got to put in there. And there’s plenty
of sites out there that will offer the services
for editing and producing. If you want a good producer
and if you want a good sound engineer, you’re looking at
between $75 and $125 per hour. But I can tell you that there’s
a difference between them and– how about this? There’s probably cheaper
lawyers out there than Jamie, but there isn’t better
lawyers out there. So you get what you pay for. JENNY GUY: Yep. DON JACKSON: Jamie’s
an outstanding lawyer, so she has a premium rate. And if you want a
premium attorney, then you pay that premium rate. So you can do all of
this stuff yourself. And you can also
send it to Fiverr– I know I’m going to get
shot by a lot of my peers– because they can
do it for like $5. But they’re just,
most of the time, getting rid of the uhs and ahs. They’re not actually
doing production. You can also have people
that just churn out stuff and they do it like that. The only problem with that
is I tell them, listen, if they don’t
understand your voice, then they’re going to cut it
how they think it should be cut. JENNY GUY: Yep. DON JACKSON: Which
means they’re going to cut things they
shouldn’t be cutting, because it’s not really in
line with what you want to do. They go, that didn’t make sense. Well, if you have somebody that
you work with and understands what you’re doing, and they
know what you’re trying to do, you don’t have to get on
constant emails going, I didn’t want that
cut, can you redo that. So again, you could pay $5– I’ve seen it on Fiverr. You can get your
podcast edited for $5. JENNY GUY: Wow. DON JACKSON: But you
usually get it kicked back, because you’re going, I didn’t
like this, I didn’t like that. Why did you cut that? And so the time that you
spent for the back and forth, even though it started
out at five dollars, you’re already up
at $75 dollars. And you’re going,
how did I get here? It’s because of
the back and forth. So I can tell you
that there’s people that are cheaper than others,
but if you do your job well, and you do it right, and
then it saves you time, and you don’t have to have
the back and forth, to me, I can make more money. I can’t make more time. So if I’m going
to waste anything, I’m going to probably go
towards spending a little bit more money than actually
having to waste my time, if that makes sense. JENNY GUY: Yeah. That totally makes sense. So you talked a lot
about intro and outro. How do you get those? Where do you get those? Do you just listen to
music that you like, or is there a special outro
story that I can go frequent? DON JACKSON: So there’s
plenty of sites. I can tell you a story where a
person who they were making six figures with their podcast– JENNY GUY: Wow. DON JACKSON: But they didn’t
get royalty-free music. And so they use
somebody else’s music. And that person sued them. And now that person
makes six figures with that person’s podcast
just off the residuals of what they did before. So there’s plenty
of sites out there that you can pay, depending
on how often you’re going to use it. The one we use– I tell clients to go find their
actual music from if they’re just going to pick an
intro-outro music for, I’ll tell them to
use Shutterstock. Shutterstock, it’s
$50 for one song. And then once you pay
for it, that’s it. That’s yours– you can use it
the whole length of the song and 20 different aspects of it. So what we tell people is
pick a good intro of it, and then we’ll cut that. And then we’ll cut a
different one for your outro. And then we’ll cut different
ones for your bumpers. And then there’s other
ones that are like $20 a month, where it’s unlimited. You can just pull
those off there. So it depends. But be prepared to
pay at least $50 for– let me take that back. Pay $50 for royalty-free music. Don’t cheap out on that. Because once you cheap out, and
it’s something you’ve built, you’re going to lose. And then you’re going to
need somebody like Jamie. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: And she’s going
to be a lot more than $50. JENNY GUY: Yeah. Pay the 50 now. DON JACKSON: Yeah. It just makes more sense. So yeah. JENNY GUY: So where do
I publish my podcast? Is iTunes enough? Do I need to put it
online in more places? How do I get out there. DON JACKSON: So
remember we talked about it has to have
its own hosting site? So There’s ListBin, SoundCloud. I don’t recommend SoundCloud. There’s Podbean. What we recommend to
everybody is Blubrry. What’s great about Blubrry– and this actually
works on any of them, but with Blubrry they made
a PowerPress plug-in– a WordPress plugin. It’s called PowerPress. You put that on your website– it’s drag, drop, publish. That’s it. So it creates its own RSS feed. So that RSS feed is separate
from your website RSS feed. So once you establish
that, when you’re going to drop your
episode you need to drop four episodes–
three to four episodes– because here’s the magic. The magic number is this– It does two things. One, if you’re dropping
twice a month or once a month even, if you drop
one episode and people have to wait a whole month
to hear you again, that’s not a great start. So you want to drop three
to four for that reason. The other reason is you can’t
apply to iTunes until you’ve had three to four episodes. So if you drop four
at one time, you can apply to iTunes right away. It usually takes– they
say 24 to 48 hours. It usually takes six to 10. The longest it’s ever
happened, actually, was recently with a podcast that
just came back because we had to re-establish the podcast. But it took a good 24 hours. But that’s the only time I’ve
ever to have that happen. But it’s just one of those
deals– sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. JENNY GUY: OK. And you actually took
my next question out. So you said you need to have
four episodes before you launch. DON JACKSON: Three
to four, yeah. JENNY GUY: OK. And that’s just right from
the beginning, all edited, all ready to go. So now that I have these
three to four episodes, how do I promote? DON JACKSON: So
promoting is– something we started introducing
our clients to is what we call an audiogram. An audiogram is something
that is a 45 to 60-second preview of what the show
is going to be about. And what’s great
about that is they can either share it on
any other social channels, because you develop a template
that allows them to share it on every channel,
because each channel has different specifications. And that’s a good way to do
it, because they can actually listen to it. You can put some stuff
behind it– make it funny. Go check out the
Fearless podcast. They do that. It’s really cool. One of my clients– sorry– by the way. And what they do is they
promote it that way. And what you can do that way
too is if you have a guest, you want to make it as easy
as possible for your guests to share what
they’ve just been on. And they want to
share it, by the way, because they want
people to hear them. So you just make
it really simple. If you send them that audiogram,
it’s, again, copy, paste, you’re good. And they put it in
their social channels. The other thing is too, if you
don’t do it that way, then just create a Pretty link with it. And just say, hey, copy,
paste this, and send it out there, please. And just share it in
your social channels. So you just promote it that
way, and just keep promoting it. So if I’m going to– excuse me– promote an episode,
then a week before the episode, I’ll put one of those
audiograms before the episode to get people excited
about what’s coming up. So I’ll post it on
our social channels. If the guest is
going to be on there, I’ll ask if they can promote
it on their social channels. And that gives them
something to look forward to. And what we’ll do is we’ll cut
something that really speaks to the episode, to
the topic of what you’re trying to get through. And so it’s no different
than a movie preview. It gets people excited
about what’s coming. That’s the best way to do it. And then what’s
great about it too, especially when you create those
audiograms and those Pretty links, is those old
episodes– for like me, I have, for my podcasts,
140 plus episodes. So I want people to go back and
listen to some of my episodes. So this is where
are our download numbers come into play. Because then we can
go back and say, this episode did really well,
so let’s put that out there. Let’s give people a
reason to go listen to us. So if they liked that
episode, maybe they’re going to like one of the other
40 billion episodes we have. And so you give them
a reason to go back. So even though it’s
an old episode, doesn’t mean you don’t
go back and use it. It was good for a reason,
put it back into play. JENNY GUY: So how do you promote
your podcast when it doesn’t match the content of your blog? DON JACKSON: You don’t put
that podcast on that blog post. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: It’s just
counterproductive. So basically, what
you’re doing is just putting something on there like
somebody who’s wearing jellies and they’re wearing
a winter parka. Jellies and that
[INAUDIBLE] going to go. So did I just say that right? Jellies? JENNY GUY: You did, Jellies. It is– it’s like a
vegan podcast talking about carnivorous
habits of [INAUDIBLE].. DON JACKSON: There you go. JENNY GUY: Yeah. Don’t do that. DON JACKSON: Yeah. Yeah. So basically, if that’s the
case, don’t have it on there. You’ll have to create something
totally different for it. But again, remember what
we said at the beginning, if you already have
established content and you already have
an established blog, you have a built-in audience. You’re just giving
him a different way to consume your information. And people want
people on choices. When you go to the
convenience store, have you seen the bank
of sodas that they have? When I used to go in
there, there was three. It was diet,
regular, and regular. [INAUDIBLE] JENNY GUY: That’s when dinosaurs
were walking the earth too. DON JACKSON: That’s why there’s
so much gray in this bad boy. JENNY GUY: Dinosaurs. DON JACKSON: Yeah. So you want to give
them a different outlook for them to consume
your information and to promote your
brand, or your product, or whatever you’re trying to– again, remember
at the beginning, we had talked about what
that podcast is going to do. Is it a funnel, or is it
to make you an expert? What is the purpose of it? And so that goes back to it. JENNY GUY: Awesome. OK. So what programs do
you recommend if you’re doing a podcast with a partner? Well, first off, let’s
just talk about resources. If I want to go out and
learn, where do I need to go? Learn about best
websites, best software– my little podcasting toolkit,
what do I want to put in it? DON JACKSON: So if you’re
going to start a podcast, I always tell people. Just go and listen. Listen to different
podcasts out there to get an idea of what
you want your format and how you want
it to look like. As far as resources go,
there’s tons of them out there. But be careful. It goes back to when I started. You have to be careful about– I can tell you, you
already know the price for what it should cost
you to start a podcast. So if you see somebody that’s
charging 1,000, or 500, or whatever, you know they’re
just doing it because they’re trying to make money. And so there’s things
you can do out there. I think we have it on the site– it’s $25, you buy a
checklist of everything to start your podcast. So it’s an in-depth look on
a checklist of what things you need to start a podcast. And it’s pretty in-depth. But there’s plenty of
those out there like that. Just buyer beware
with some of it. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: And then,
again, it goes back to, when you start your podcast,
you have to understand what you want it to sound like. And it needs to be
unique to your specific– to you, to your
brand, to your voice. And I always tell clients,
go give me a list of podcasts that you really
like, and we’ll try to tailor your
podcast around that. And we’ll cherry pick what
we think is going to work, and you can tell us
what doesn’t work. And I think, at
the end of the day, when everybody keeps asking
me questions of, what’s the magical number for this? What’s the magical– there is
no magical number, only the ones that work for you. And I don’t know what
those are most of the time. I can give you a general idea
of what works with some clients. But at the end of the
day, it comes down to, people say, what
should a sound like? It should sound like you. Your tribe, your
people, your followers– they know what you sound
like, and it should just be an extension of that to
promote you as a brand, or you as a company, or your product. Whatever it is, that’s
what it should be. So to answer your question,
coming back around, which I don’t think
I really answered, there’s plenty of
resources out there. Just remember that key
number I gave you– $250. You can start a
podcast for $250. So if you go to a site that
has information on there, and they start rattling
off these numbers, like you need a mixer,
and you need a soundboard, and you need that. And you’re like, um, no. JENNY GUY: [INAUDIBLE]. DON JACKSON: Refresh. Yeah. Go back to another one. JENNY GUY: So how do
you grow a following? How do you get more listeners? DON JACKSON: So
besides the simple– JENNY GUY: Keep
producing content? DON JACKSON: Yeah, keep
producing content– keep producing good content. So it goes back to
that microphone thing I told you about
at the beginning. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: Pay a little
bit for a good microphone. Because if you have– you could have golden content,
but if you sound like crap, nobody wants to listen to you. JENNY GUY: [? True. ?] DON JACKSON: So you could
have a great microphone and still have crappy content. Then, that’s a different issue. So just get guests that’s
are going along with what you’re trying to promote. And then try to be on
other podcasts that are like-minded like yours
and have them be on yours. And you guys can share. Because something’s going to
click differently with somebody else. So promote your podcast by
being on another podcasts. JENNY GUY: OK. DON JACKSON: And
then just keep doing the things we talked about
at the beginning of putting your old links up
there of old shows that actually had good content. Go to Facebook group pages. There’s plenty of
podcast groups out there that you can share
your content on, but there’s also Facebook that
you can share your content on. Ask your friends to share it, do
a lot of social media with it. But if you can get on
a different podcast, that’ll really help you
promote your podcast and get your name out there. And then every
once in while, try to get a super big guest that’s
in your genre of your niche that you’re in to help
you kind of get a boost. Sometimes those guys
or gals are really good at helping you blast out
your content, and some of them aren’t so great so. It goes back to making
it as easy as possible to share that episode with them. So if you can copy, paste,
and they can post it on their social media,
there’s very few people that say, no, I’m
not going to do that. The people would
say, no, I’m not going to do that are jerks
anyway, so who cares? JENNY GUY: Not our
favorite people. DON JACKSON: [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah. JENNY GUY: So monetization,
let’s quickly go over that. We’ve all heard the struggles
on monetizing a podcast. Where do you start
looking for sponsors? How do you pitch them? Is it just as simple as just
basic pitching with a blog, that you’re going out and
reaching for the brands that you like that you find
are simpatico with your brand? Or is there more
to it than that? DON JACKSON: Well,
it’s that, but also you got to remember it’s not
your download numbers. You’re not selling
your download numbers, because it’s more than that. So it’s your whole entire reach. That includes your
social channels, that includes [? Facebook ?]
groups that you have– all of that should
feed into your reach. So when they say, well,
how many downloads you get? Well, you say, I have
this many downloads. And if you first
start, that’s not going to sound that impressive. I had [? 60 ?] downloads on the
last episode, so there’s that. And they’re going to
go, that’s awesome. I don’t know why we’re talking. But, OK. So then you go, but the
reach of that episode was 10,000 views or
whatever that could be. And then they go, whoa,
OK, wait a minute. Now, we’re having
a conversation. Because you can’t just put
it on your actual downloads. Because here’s a little
secret about download numbers, Apple doesn’t release
any download numbers. Google, if you get it
off there, they only give you partial
download numbers. So a lot of the download
numbers you’re getting aren’t the whole picture,
because most people are probably listening
to him on iTunes. I get my podcasts
from Podcast Addict. So they pull everybody’s
RSS feeds to go into there, and that’s where I
get my podcasts from. But they give me my
download numbers. And so your host will
give you download numbers. They only give you
the download numbers that they get back from whoever
they’re pulling it from. So if iTunes is pulling it,
and they asked for iTunes, then iTunes is, we’re
not doing that– we’re not going
to give you that. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: So it’s different. And then a lot of
people, when they first started doing ads
for podcasts, tried to do it like it does radio. But it doesn’t work,
because radio is live and the numbers
don’t equate right. So it’s one of those things
where, don’t just go in there and say these are
my download numbers. But you just talk to people
that are going to fit into what you’re trying to do. So again, if you’re
a vegan podcast, you’re not going to go
to Snake River Farms and go, hey, you guys want
to promote on our podcast? They’re going to go– JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: –no. And you’re going to get a
huge no, because they’re like, nobody that
listens to your podcast is going to buy any of this. JENNY GUY: Right. DON JACKSON: And so you
want to go to Whole Foods, and go, Whole Foods,
you have this section, blah, blah, blah, how do
you feel about doing that? And then try to
lock people into– when you go into it, go,
let’s do a four-episode arc or it could be a
three-month arc. And then give them
something for it. Again, it comes back
to that premium spots that we’re talking
about, that premium spot where your
first ad or bumper is going to create a premium spot. So they should pay
a little bit more. And then make it where,
hey, listen, we’re going to show you on
our social channels, we’re going to share you here. Because that’s where it comes
back to that reach, where they’ll go, we’re not just going
to promote you on our podcast, we’re going to promote you
everywhere we have something. JENNY GUY: Yep. DON JACKSON: And so
that helps there. JENNY GUY: Do you have any
kind of ideas on pricing? It all depends on reach, it
all depends on multiple things, but any sort of shot in
the dark of how people can price podcast advertising? DON JACKSON: It all depends. JENNY GUY: It depends. DON JACKSON: I can tell you I
have a client that was trying to get on Mike Rowe’s podcast. And they wanted to sell
an ad on his podcast. JENNY GUY: OK DON JACKSON: It’s
$25,000 per episode. JENNY GUY: Wow. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And it’s a four-month
minimum for them. Yeah. So we’re not Mike Rowe. We don’t get 500,000
downloads per episode. So if you can try to get– what I always tell people
is take a look at your cost. How much do you pay for hosting
your website every [INAUDIBLE]?? And then add a little
bit more for you what you think your
time is into it. And then take that
as your baseline. So when you go in, go,
I need this amount. So let’s say you
started out with 250. Say $500. Say $500 an episode. You know? JENNY GUY: OK. DON JACKSON: Go
in there say that. Or go $250 an episode. But go in there, and– it’s kind of like people
that do sponsored content, don’t go in they’re going, oh,
you’re going to pay me $25? Yeah, I’ll take that. No. JENNY GUY: Sure! Toilet paper for three days? Yes! DON JACKSON: Yeah. You’re going to send me what? OK. JENNY GUY: Amazing. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And you just gotta
be strong with it and go, no, this is the price
I want, because this is what– and you break it down to how
much it’s going to cost you. And that should be
your lowest price. And then that’s when
you start negotiating. You’ll settle for 250, but
you go 500 bucks an episode. And then you start negotiating. But your bottom
cutoff line is 250. So if we go below 250, I’m out. And that’s what you have to do. You have to believe
in your product, just like you have to
believe in yourself. And if you don’t, then
you’re not going to get crap. You’re going to get
crapped on, but you’re not going to get what
you actually deserve, which is the time and
money that you put into it. So don’t go thinking after
I drop my fourth episode, I’m going to go try
to get a sponsor. You could “try.” it’ll be probably sad. But the people that you already
have established relationships with, with sponsored content,
should be your first call. They should be the
first person you reach [? out to, ?]
because they’ve already worked with you. And you go, hey, listen, I
don’t know if you know this, but this is what I’m doing. And I will throw this
other number out. It was one 1.6 billion. $1.6 billion was
made in ad revenue in podcasting last year. JENNY GUY: Wow. That’s crazy. So it’s really a misnomer
that people are talking about you can’t monetize. You can. DON JACKSON: Yeah. It’s just what people
are doing is they’re trying to reinvent the wheel. You can’t reinvent the wheel. You actually have
to go in there. And for people who already
have established companies that they’ve worked
with or stuff like that, they’re silly not to put that
forward, because they already have their foot in the door. JENNY GUY: Right. Absolutely. You’ve already got
a relationship. All right. We are out of
time, but I’m going to have you talk to me
a little bit about where we can find you and
again what services you offer with Raven Media. DON JACKSON: So you can find
me in all the social channels, just go look up The
Raven Media Group. I think we’re pretty much– JENNY GUY: The? DON JACKSON: Yeah, “The” first. You have to put it there,
because the other ones is Raven Media Group, and
they’re, I think, in Boston. And they do wildlife stuff,
and that’s totally not me. Yeah. JENNY GUY: Not you. DON JACKSON: Yeah, no. So you can find me at
The Raven Media Group at any of those channels,
be it Twitter, Instagram, the Facebook. JENNY GUY: The book of Faces. DON JACKSON: Yeah. And you can hear me on some of
the podcasts that I produce. So I know some of
your people have– actually, I think you
and Amber have both been on one of my client’s podcasts. JENNY GUY: Yeah. DON JACKSON: So
that’s pretty cool. I don’t want to promote
them, because they’re– I’m just kidding. The Fearless podcast,
they’re awesome– FearLess Business podcast. And they’re great. And then as far
as my services go, we do everything that helps
people get a podcast going. So we have a package
where we teach people how to do from
inception of an idea to your first four
episodes, and we teach you every aspect of
how to get a podcast going. We do a la carte stuff. We also do video. And we help people
with shownotes– all that good stuff. So we try to cross the whole
gambit of [INAUDIBLE] here. We do it really well. I have a great team. I’m probably the weakest
link on that team– I’m just kidding. But we do good work. And so, please, check us out. And I had a lot of
fun today, by the way. Sorry– JENNY GUY: I have
a lot of fun too. We had a little bump. But that’s OK, we
hit our stride. And the other awesome thing
is that Don is actually going to be speaking at
the Mediavine conference in Chicago. We’re going to have him
there as a special guest DON JACKSON: I will be. JENNY GUY: You will be there. DON JACKSON: And I got
my velourish suit ready. It’s going to be awesome. JENNY GUY: Perfect. Perfect. Make an impression. It’s only one chance
to do it, and you’re ready to do it with
a velour lawsuit. DON JACKSON: And a shirt just
buttoned all the way down. JENNY GUY: Great. Maybe nipple height. DON JACKSON: Yeah,
you’re welcome. JENNY GUY: I knew we were
going to get inappropriate at some point, and I’m glad
we saved it to the very end. So thank you so much,
Don, for being here. Guys, thank you for joining us. Again, you can find Don
at The Raven Media Group. We are happy to have you
here for another Teal Talk. And we will see you in
April, because it’s almost April, guys. Have a wonderful end of
March, and we’ll see you soon. Thanks again, Don. DON JACKSON: Thank you.

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