TPG/Interactive Accessibility Podcast Episode 6 2019: Mick Ebeling

TPG/Interactive Accessibility Podcast Episode 6 2019: Mick Ebeling


Welcome to the IAP, the Interactive
Accessibility Podcast, bringing you the people, technology, and ideas helping to make your
world accessible to everyone. Mark Miller: I’m your host, Mark Miller, thanking
you for helping us keep it accessible. Do us a favor, if you’re enjoying the IAP,
share it. Tell someone about it. Hey, even link to it from your accessible
website. So I’m here. I’m your host, Mark Miller. I’m here with my cohost, Derek Bove and I
want to thank, before we get started, our producer who’s not on air with us today, Marissa,
For putting this really cool guest, really cool podcast together. We have a guest that I’m extremely excited
about talking to today. Mick Ebeling and he’s the CEO, founder of
Not Impossible Labs and I’m going to table Not Impossible Labs for just a minute because
I think that it’s a difficult company to explain real quick, but I’m going to give you a little
bit of story here. Mark Miller: Back in 2015, Mick, this is for
you. I was at CSUN and you were the keynote speaker
for the 30th anniversary party at CSUN and this is my first exposure to you. And I’ve got to tell you what an inspiring
exposure it was. This was the first time I heard you talk about
Tempt1 who is a graffiti artist from the ’80s that, because of ALS had, and this is my way
of describing it, but essentially lost the use of his body really. He obviously had eye movement and stuff like
that. And this inspired a product that you guys
did called the Eye Writer. And you, incredible story, I should probably
let you tell it. But you really found this person and found
out what they really wanted, what they really needed in this situation they were in, and
inspired this technology that allowed them to create their art again. Mark Miller: And then I think the other story
that you’re really famous for that you told, and that inspired me during CSUN, was the
story of Daniel where you guys actually went out to the Nuba Mountains, if I’m pronouncing
that correctly and built a hand for this kid who had lost his hand when his village was
bombed. But not only did that, the thing that really
inspired me about that, Mick, was that you guys taught the people in his village how
to reproduce that. You didn’t just do this and walk away, but
you really had the foresight to teach people in the village how to do that. So these two stories inspired me and I think
they inspired the company. So with that, I want to introduce you guys
to Mick. Mick, it’s great to be talking to you today. Thank you so much for being on this podcast
with us. Mick Ebeling: Absolutely. Thanks Mark. I’m really excited to be here. Mark Miller: Great. Great. So, do me a favor and just … You know, I
think you have a challenge, right? Because you’ve got such a unique company and
I can remember coming home to my wife telling her about this speech and sounding like Barney
Fife trying to explain something you didn’t understand to Andy Griffith going “Well, they
… They sort of … Well, you see the kind of.” It’s really difficult to explain. The one phrase that I think rings the best
for me is that you guys focus on making technology for the sake of humanity. Can you give us just a quick sense of what
your company really does? Mick Ebeling: Sure. It took us a minute to figure out how to say
this concisely, but I think we’ve nailed it. So let me know how I do Here we go. Drum roll please. We are a technology incubation lab. Full Stop. That’s it. That’s what we do. We incubate technology. Now our technology is, as you mentioned, technology
for the sake of humanity. So we don’t start our incubation process thinking
how can we make a … You know, to quote Austin Powers “A million dollars”, right? That’s not our objective. Our objective at the start is how do we solve
an absurdity? How do we tackle something that you look at
it and you go, wait a second. That’s just not right. We have to solve that. So it’s a bit, I guess, anti-capitalistic
when you start because the lead question is not how do we become billionaires? The lead question is how do we solve that
absurdity? Mick Ebeling: And we’ve figure out in our
technology incubator lab, we figure out with duct tape and zip ties and highfalutin craziness
and mad scientists, we figure out how to solve it. So period, full stop. We incubate technology. Now what makes it unique is that typically,
when you’re creating an incubator, you raise a bunch of money and other people put their
money in. And then you become an investor and you invest
in these different pieces of technology. So there’s two distinct points. One we didn’t take on outside money. It’s either my money or the money that we
make as a business that we invest into the making of this technology. Second, up to this point, it’s all technology
that we come up with. It’s absurdities that we see and we say we
have to change that, we’re going to fix that. Mick Ebeling: So we dog-piloted ourself. And I think I said two, but the third part
is the stories of what we do, the story of going to the Nuba Mountains and creating the
world’s first 3D printing prosthetic lab, the story of Tempt1 being able to draw again
using only his eyes, the story of all the other things you can see on our website, we
ended up taking those stories and licensing those rights to the stories to brands who
say “Oh my God, these stories are amazing. We want to push those across our channels. We want to give you some money, push them
across our channels.” So the revenue that we use to incubate the
technology, we ended up creating this cycle that the stories that generate money are stories
about the technology we’re creating. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. So that’s how we fund ourselves. But at the end of the day, we’re a technology
incubation lab that just so happens, rather than raising money through getting investors
money, we raise money by telling the stories of what we’re incubating and creating. Mark Miller: Yeah. And the investor model is reversed. It comes after you guys do that. It’s brilliant- Mick Ebeling: How did I do? How did I do? Mark Miller: Huh? Mick Ebeling: Is that easy to understand? Mark Miller: Oh, that’s, yeah, that’s good. And I understand it and I hope the listeners
got it. You know, for me, I think to really understand
who you guys are, those stories are it. Like you can explain what you do and you can
say you’re an incubator, but the ethos of the company is really realized through the
stories the stories that you’re talking. And intentionally, I didn’t go too deep into
those stories because you can go on your website and you can see those stories. And I want to do something a little bit different
here today. Really what I want to do is give you a platform
to talk about some of these new and exciting things that you guys have coming up because
these are the things that aren’t saturated out there and your social media content and
your website and easily accessible. Mark Miller: So I want to tell you a little
story and introduce one of the technologies or one of the absurdities that you guys are
in the middle of right now, if I’m using that term right. But years ago when I first went into my professional
life, I was fortunate enough to run across a woman who’s deaf, and she became a really
good friend of mine. And I learned a lot through my interaction
with her. And one of the things that I distinctly remember,
she was an incredibly good dancer and she could feel the beat of the music through the
floor. She had incredible rhythm and to me, it was
just fascinating to see her navigate that and she explained to me how she would hold
a balloon or she would get a cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup and keep the cup once it
was empty, and she could feel the vibrations of the music and experience the music through
these vibrations. And that’s something that stuck with me. Mark Miller: So now you, Mick, I start reading
the stories and what you’re doing and you guys have taken that simple concept and created
a really, really cool technology around it, right? VibroTextile, I think is what you call it,
where people can feel the vibrations of all sorts of things, but I think music is one
that you very specifically applied it to, and giving people who are deaf the ability
to experience music. And it was brilliant the way somebody put
it as a whole body, whole brain experience. And it’s incredible. And looking at some of your videos, you guys
have, this is a question for you real quick. Mandy, on your videos, she’s AGT. She’s the one that was on America’s Got talent. Yeah. Great. So anyways, could you just talk to me about
the inspiration and what you guys are doing with this and we got to get to skateboarding
along the way here as well. Mick Ebeling: So actually it’s funny is that
skateboarding is the start of the answer, which is I live in Venice Beach, California. I’ve got three boys. We go out and skateboard all the time. Venice Skate Park here is one of the best
and the most traveled to skate parks in the world, right? Mark Miller: Virtual high five because my
son and I do the same thing. I spent my summer building him a half pipe
in the backyard. I’m in the East Coast, right? So I’m nowhere … We’re as far away from
skateboard capital as possible. But we have Rya Airfield up here, so we’ve
got a big indoor skate park and what a great connection it is between my kid. So keep going. I really appreciate that. Mick Ebeling: Such an amazing sport and such
an amazing way to connect with people too. And the crazy thing is everyone thinks that
they’re a bunch of hoodlums and the funny thing is they’re actually just the opposite. Everybody’s so nice and so sweet. And if you’re trying to figure out how to
do something and you ask somebody, now the person you asked might be all tatted up with
pierces and look like someone, but they’re like “Oh yeah. Hey, no problem. Oh, keep trying. You can do it.” You know what I love most about skateboarding
is that it’s the sport of failure. If you’re not failing 90% of the time, then
you are not progressing. So it teaches you, and this is actually a
chapter in my book, it teaches you fail, fail, fail, succeed, repeat as necessary. I think it’s like chapter six or something. But that principle is something that is an
underpinning of how we operate here. Mick Ebeling: So back to the story. I skateboard, a friend of mine fell, hit his
head. He hit his head, hit the back of his head,
and he lost his sense of smell. He didn’t fall on his nose. He fell on his head, lost his sense of smell. That makes Mick, talking about myself in the
third person is always a little awkward. That makes Mick think wait a second, guys. You didn’t fall on your nose. You fall on your head. That means you don’t smell with your nose. You smell with your brain. Mick Ebeling: So if you smell with your brain,
you see with your brain, you taste with your brain. That means you hear with your brain. And all of those are just pathways to the
brain, so why don’t we figure out how to get to the brain with music because now cut to
the way that the deaf community and the deaf population will sometimes be relegated to
experiencing music, as you said with your friend, is holding a balloon or standing in
front of speakers or holding a styrofoam cup of water and that’s just stupid, right? That’s not a way to experience music. And it’s not right that music unintentionally
has become a point of segregation where if you can hear, you get it this way and if you
can’t hear well too bad, right? Mark Miller: It’s not for you. Yeah. Mick Ebeling: Yeah, that’s too bad. So we said “Alright, let’s figure out how
to change that.” So I became really obsessed with that, watching
how the deaf community would experience music. And I said “Well, why don’t we figure out
how to to hack around the part that is the conventional pathway, the eardrum. And why don’t we figure out how to hack straight
to the brain.” So we created a piece of technology that transports
and already pre-segments drums to the ankles, guitars to the wrist, base to the base of
the spine and vocals to the chest, and it’s a piece of wearable technology. It’s wristbands, ankle bands, et cetera, so
then when the music hits the person who’s wearing it, it’s the skin that’s acting as
the eardrum that’s transporting the signal to the brain. Mick Ebeling: But we’ve pre-segmented it as
opposed to your brain interpreting, oh, that’s the bass drum. Oh, that’s a guitar. Oh, that’s the vocals. We’ve pre-segmented it. So now somebody who is deaf can look at a
vocalist and when their mouth opens and they see themselves, they see someone projecting,
they can feel those words in their brain. When they see the guitarist strum the guitar,
they can feel that strum on their skin and in their brain. So that was our theory. We did it. The first prototypes sucked, but we were on the verge of something and we kept going and kept going and we came up with something. And then we cracked it wide open and we showed
it to a massive headphone company. And they went from kind of a whatever, let
me see this thing to, holy cow, this is amazing. Mick Ebeling: So it’s been a five year pursuit
and has gotten us to where we are now. And we launched about four weeks ago in Las
Vegas in partnership with Avnet, Zappos adaptive and the Church of Rock and Roll, and an incredible
band named Greta Van Fleet. Then we put on the show and the beautiful
thing about the show was half of the audience was deaf and half of the audience could hear,
but it represented the first time in audience everybody was experiencing music in a similar
way, which is they were feeling it. Some could hear, but everybody could feel
it. And in this really precise, perfect, the zero
latency way that people share this experience. And what we always say is that it ended audio
segregation or it was the birth of music and audio inclusion. Mark Miller: That’s incredible. Derek Bove: You know, what’s ironic is I’d
literally just discovered that band yesterday on title. Mark Miller: Oh really? Derek Bove: Yeah. Yeah. Mick Ebeling: Incredible band. Incredible guys. Like really, really big hearted guys. And they’re blowing up right now, too. Mark Miller: That’s awesome. You know what’s crazy is I was in Vegas. I wish I had known. I was in Vegas probably around about that
time. Mick Ebeling: Ah, it’s too bad. Mark Miller: Yeah. Go ahead, Derek. Sorry. Derek Bove: No, I think what’s interesting,
Mick, is a lot of times, and I’ve worked in this industry mainly for a company that develops
software for low vision individuals, and a lot of times we’d talk to folks and they’d
have an impetus behind why they were supporting someone or whatnot. And I think what’s interesting is, and you
touched a little bit about your philosophy and kind of failing and getting back up again,
you kind of run the gamut here. I mean you’ve got assistive devices for people
with ALS. We’ve got the devices for deaf people. The 3D printed arms, Parkinson’s, and Project
C.O.D.I is about someone who has a disease similar to retinitis pigmentosa, which is
effectively tunnel vision. You kind of cover the gamut and I think … Is
there anything you can say about that, right? You’re not just helping one segment, you’re
helping everybody and I think that’s a really cool thing that you’re doing. Mick Ebeling: Well, I think it goes back to
the fact that our model is counterintuitive, right? One would say, okay, you’re going to become
the best low end, ocular recognition company. Well for us we see ourselves as these kind
of punk rock, Venice Beach, skateboarding, Robin Hood’s where we see things that are
absurd and we say “Well, let’s try to solve it. Sometimes we solve it and then we throw it
out to the world and say “Hey, you guys go take it. Take it and run with it. It’s open source.” You know, we just wanted to light the fuse,
but we don’t have to be there the entire time. And sometimes we see things and we’re like,
oh wow, this is really fun. We’re really having a good time on this one. Let’s continue to pursue that, which is what
we’re doing with Music Not Impossible. Mick Ebeling: So we’ve got a whole gamut. You mentioned Project C.O.D.I. We hack ourselves as well. So the thing that we created for the music,
and having an inclusive music experience for the deaf, we have now since then, that core
idea has spun off into an incredible launch that’s going to happen in Q2 of next year
where we realized that the vibrations that we hit, we patented this technology and the
vibrations that we were giving off from music when it was put on someone with Parkinson’s,
it stopped their Parkinson’s tremors. Mark Miller: That’s incredible. Derek Bove: Wow. That’s- Mick Ebeling: It’s [inaudible 00:17:37], right? And that’s just … I can share all kinds
of videos with you on it. You don’t believe it until you see it. And even when you see it, you just kind of
don’t believe it. But that was genie in a bottle. So that’s called VibroHealth and we’re rolling
that out. Project Cody, my wife’s second cousin’s son. I’m not sure where that falls into the family
tree lineage, but we just call him our nephew. He has this very rare disease as you mentioned,
and he is going both blind and deaf. And we said well, wait a second. Why don’t we figure out how to hack our Music
Not Impossible technology and make it so that as he approaches things that it’s kind of
like that backup signal on your car, except for rather than going beep, beep, beep, it
actually vibrates your body and the intensity would increase. So as you could navigate a maze and as you
would turn and run into something, it would and it would come down. So you could just from tactile inputs, you
would be able to navigate a maze. Mick Ebeling: We’ve got now another thing
in the blind community that we’re really excited about. We’re launching a project that we’re doing
with Zappos Adaptive around helping a blind skateboarder- Mark Miller: This is the story I wanted to
hear. Mick Ebeling: Be able to go and skate any
park anyplace in the world. So we’re crafting a solution, and this is
the fun part, we don’t have to teach them how to skateboard ’cause look, I would call
myself an average skateboarder. This guy’s blind and he rips. I mean, he still rips, right? He ripped before he rips now. But his ability to go into a park and skate
was something that, you know, he asked to learn it. So we said, well, how do we create a way to
make parks accessible for everybody to go into? Mick Ebeling: And so we’re crafting that right
now. And the beautiful thing about that is we crafted
… And this is an underlying kind of tenant to how we operate. We always say help one, help many. So Justin, the skateboarder, is our one and
we’re going to solve it for Justin. And we’ve got grand plans for him and creating
this so he could walk into any skate park and in a short amount of time, he would be
able to “see” and be able to map out what this park is so he could skate it. And he’ll go hard, right? He’ll go harder than anybody else. Mick Ebeling: But the how many is if we can
create that for him, we can create that for kids who were born blind at birth who would
never in a million years try any type of a sport like that, and now they have that access
to go and express themselves in a way that would have been relegated impossible for them
forever because of the nature of … They’ve never learned to skate. Justin’s advantage is that he knew how to
skate. And so it’s now just figuring out the landscape. Well, how do you teach someone who’s blind
to skate if they’ve never skated before, right? Now we’re crafting ways where that’s going
to happen. And the funny thing is, and this is where
you go back to the incubation model is we craft. We start with what’s absurd and let’s solve
it. And then once we’ve done that, then we look
at the business model. Well, here’s the thing, you skate, skate with
your kid, right? Mark Miller: I do, yes. Mick Ebeling: Were you ever a pro skater? Mark Miller: I did not skateboard until my
kid started skating. Mick Ebeling: Okay, great. So your level, I’m going to put you in that
same average level. Mark Miller: Yeah. Well, somewhere way below your average level
though, please. Mick Ebeling: What we’re doing now if this
had a benefit for you and your son, and you’re not blind, is this something that you would
subscribe to? The answer is yes, because we’re going to
craft this as a way that actually makes the experience better for that population, for
the non-blind population, right? The sighted. Well now you’ve got scale because now you’re
crafted something that both people who can see and people who can’t see can participate
in. And now you’re not asking just the blind community
to support this thing. Now you can actually have market forces and
the quality of the product actually help other people, and then now it gets better for the
blind as well. Mark Miller: I mean, everything you say just
rings so true. And going back to when we first started talking
about skateboarding and you talked about it as a sport and you talked about what I think
is one of the most important things of it were, you know, you literally are failing
by falling down and having to pick yourself back up over and over and over again to learn
something. And that’s the benefit of skateboarding that
I see for my son and quite frankly myself too, right? So unraveling what you’re doing is you’re
now giving people who’re blind that may not have access to that particular activity to
gain that particular skill set and learn those things. They now have access to that as well. I mean, just bringing it full circle. And for me that’s incredible because it’s
so meaningful to me that my son has that availability. And now it can be meaningful for somebody
who’s son is blind. So it’s just an incredible thing. Mick Ebeling: One of the best, most influential
people that I ever got a chance to experience in regards to this conversation around accessibility
and how to have market forces drive accessibility. I was on a panel at CES and it was with their
association side, which is a big technology conference in Las Vegas. And the panel was the president of the Association
of the Blind, the president of Association of the Deaf, president of Association of wheelchairs,
I don’t know, whatever it was. I’m kind of being a bit flippant about it
because it was a bunch of heads of associations and then it was me. And then it was Stevie Wonder, right? And the question was posed, what would you
do to help your constituents have more access? And what would you do to help your constituents? Right? Mark Miller: Right. Mick Ebeling: The president of every federation
or association said basically the same thing, which is I would mandate that the government
do this. I would mandate that car makers do that. I would mandate, mandate, mandate. Right? And it got to Stevie and Stevie said “Man,
mandating anything is not going to help. If you really want to create change, what
you have to do is create something that has a widespread market appeal, so that there
are market forces that drive the development and the perfection and the advancement and
the refinement of it. And then if that product, that app, that device,
that whatever, if that actually helps the mass market, the majority, and then the minority
will benefit as well.” And he held up his phone and he goes “The
smartphone’s the best thing that happened for the blind community.” Mick Ebeling: He’s like “If we mandated that
the government make these devices for the blind community, would it have gotten …” Now
I’m probably adding words to what he said, but the answer is no. But you create a device that helps everybody,
that everybody wants, and then the blind community benefits from it. The deaf community benefits from it. So that really, really fashions how we think,
which is if you think from a let’s solve for one, let’s solve for Justin the blind skateboarder
now. But as you’re crafting that, you think from
a, how do we [crosstalk 00:25:13] many, many people from there, now you’ve got something
that can actually have some traction and get some momentum. Mark Miller: Yeah. That’s a great point. And that’s a great example because in what
we do, we’re fortunate to be exposed to a lot of people who are blind and we know how
much they love their mobile phones. It’s really a bit of technology that’s opened
up a whole world to them. And one of the questions I answer most often
on the phone is can blind people even use a cell phone? So what you’re saying, I think, is when you
go from that one to that many, the many starts to become compassionate and understanding. And a lot of the things that they may not
realize out there, they start to realize through these technologies. You know, you’re just talking about like a
group of people who are hearing it, a group of people who are deaf, being able to experience
something the same way. ‘Cause everybody wants everybody to have a
great time. But not everybody understands or is exposed
or has enough in common to really bring it around. So I just think that what you guys are doing
is working on so many levels like that. It’s just incredible. Mick Ebeling: Well, I think that that comment
can the blind actually use a cell phone. I would say that the “fully-abled population”,
myself included, are so ignorant when it comes to their awareness of how the world really
works, right? Because what you’re saying is oh, because
you can’t see means you can’t experience something. So one of my good friends is Erik Weihenmayer,
the blind climber’s climbed all seven summits, including the Grand Canyon. Total badass. He holds a festival conference called No Barriers. An incredible conference. I highly recommend anybody going to this thing
because you’re surrounded by people who are “disabled”, who are kicking your ass. They’re bad asses and they’re out there getting
it done, right? Mick Ebeling: What I have now become aware
of is through … I took a class at one of these conferences with Daniel Kish. And Daniel Kish is a famous TED talk where
it talks about him being the Batman. He uses echolocation to navigate his world
where he clicked, right? And what I learned in that class, he blindfolded
us and then taught us how to echo-locate and guess what? We were shitty at it. We weren’t very good at it. He can ride his bike around
that he’s never been to before. Mark Miller: Yeah, it’s nuts, isn’t it? Mick Ebeling: And he can do it, right? So it’s like, oh wait a second. So just because the lights are on, I can see. But when the lights are off, I can’t. You just got to check yourself a little bit
in terms of … Daniel can quote “see”, but he doesn’t see the way you see using the word see isn’t really appropriate. It’s experience. And so we experience things with their eyes,
we experience things with our nose, we experience things with our ears. And when you all of a sudden realize, well
the deaf experience things, they just don’t do it the way that you do it. Mick Ebeling: And people will say “Oh, you’ve
created a device to help the deaf hear”, and I even said that at the very beginning of
this whole thing and it’s like no dumb ass. You’re not trying to help the deaf hear. You’re trying to give the deaf an experience
of music. And hearing is like quantifying it and putting
it into a package of that’s the way that it exists and that at its base it’s prejudiced. It’s segregational. Is that a word? You’re already segregating that experiencing
something has to go through the way that I do it and that’s just not a way to think on
this planet. Mark Miller: Yeah. Go ahead, Derek. Derek Bove: Yeah, no, I was just gonna say. I mean, you make a great point. I remember during my first interview, never
really thinking about how blind or low vision person access their computer, right? As able people, we just don’t think about
it. Another point I just wanted to make is I think. Mick, one of the things that you’re doing
is, I’m going to use this term, I feel like you’re solving intimate issues for these people,
right? Whether it’s C.O.D.I or whether it’s Tempt1,
these are things that they’re passionate about or love doing that you’re giving them purpose
back for. And then in the mass market, making that relatable. Right? And getting that sort of prevalence that,
to your point of what Stevie Wonder made, you’re solving these intimate issues which
are now relatable and you’re also spreading awareness through a lot of these things too,
which again, I think it’s just awesome. Mick Ebeling: Awesome. Thank you. We’re enjoying the journey. And I think the thing I love most, and it’s
a good way to incapsulize for the podcast and for incapsulize Not Impossible is we just
wake up every day like looking forward to getting a big slice of humble pie. You know, like we look out for it and we enjoy
it because we’re constantly meeting people who maybe they don’t do acts the way that
we do it, but we can by really truly seeing the way that they do it, we learn from it
and it ends up influencing our design process and how we approached the creation of technology
for the sake of humanity. So I’m going to do the
shameless plug and after you’ve subscribed to this podcast and listen to all of them,
I can recommend it, go to podcast Not Impossible and you’ll have all the stories of all these
other badasses. Mark Miller: Guess what? We’re going to put a link on our podcast,
all that stuff. So you guys will be able to find it, but- Mick Ebeling: Shameless plug. Mark Miller: Well, it’s a good plug because
people definitely should do that. And listen, I liked the way that you really
frame that is … You know, I was thinking you and I was thinking about the company and
you guys obviously are a bunch of confident dudes. You’re a bunch of talented dudes. And you’re a bunch of talented people. Mick Ebeling: People that work for me are
female. Just so we’re clear. Mark Miller: Oh, sorry. Yeah, I meant non-gender specific dudes I know. I’m old. So I use that to mean everybody. My wife calls her girlfriends dude, so that’s
what I’m conditioned to. But anyways, so a bunch of people who are
all those things and compassionate and all that. And I was thinking as you were talking that
humility is a big piece of that. You’ve got to be confident, you’ve got to
know what you’re doing. You’ve got to have all that thing. But you’ve got to humble yourself to realize
that you don’t understand things and that you might need to put some effort into understanding
something and someone and some new way. And really be humbled to discovering new things
and not be so cocky and confident that you know how everything works so that you can’t
find those new ways. Mark Miller: And I think that that for me
in this podcast, that was the last word that I needed to sort of complete my holistic way
of thinking about what you guys do and what you do. And I think that’s incredible. And I want to bring it back around to skateboarding
because skateboarding is awesome and I’m glad that we have that connection. And I hope that your … I know it wasn’t
your nephew, but just just call him that, right? I hope he continues to skateboard. I want to see that thrasher video of him using
your technology and skateboarding. That’s gotta hit the internet and I’ve got
to see that one day. And I just think everything that you guys
do is awesome. And I have tickets to Mid90s, so we’ve got
to wrap this up. And that’s not a joke. That is for real. I’m taking my son to see it. Mick Ebeling: My son just saw it and he said
it was awesome. Mark Miller: Yeah. Great. Great. For those of you listening, that’s the new
skateboarding movie that’s being released. So Google Mid 90s. Talk about a guy who’s passionate. I think you probably had a lot of things in
common with that director. That was a very passionately made movie. So listen, Mick, thank you so much for being
on the podcast with us. This was such a great fun, dynamic conversation. We really believe in what you do. What I heard of you back in 2015 at CSUN at
the 30th anniversary party resonated with me for all these years. And so when my producer said that you were
going to be on this podcast, I’m fanning out a little bit, right? I really, really kind of tracked what you
do and really believe in it. Mark Miller: I love your upside down thinking. I try to do it myself. I’m not very good at it. I love the way that you just are breaking
moulds and doing incredible things in incredibly different ways. And how everybody’s benefiting from it. So thank you so much. Mick Ebeling: Thank you. Derek Bove: Thank you, Mick. Mick Ebeling: Absolutely and keep skating. Mark Miller: Yeah, I will. Derek Bove: You too. Mark Miller: Here we go. We’ll end the podcast with a skateboard clap. Derek Bove: Ah, there you go. Mark Miller: That’s for you. Mick. Alright. Well, this is Mark Miller thanking Mick and
thanking Derek and thanking you guys for listening and reminding you all to keep it accessible. Announcer: The IAP, Interactive Accessibility
Podcast, is brought to you by Interactive Accessibility, the accessibility experts. You can find their Access Matters blog at
interactiveaccessibility.com/blog.

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