I think one of the the other key psychological concepts that people should focus on more is the idea that you can practice something deliberately So you have to deliberately practice the weaknesses and make them as strong as you can While also practicing your strengths and making those the top of your performance. Most people are too lazy to do that They just want to practice everything or they don’t want to even bother to figure out which piece is the most important Everybody welcome to another episode of impact theory our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that Will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right Today’s guest is a former Wall Street lawyer who gave it all up to pursue a life of meaning Following his love for learning instead of chasing money He co-founded a podcast and Academy called the art of charm back in 2006 long before podcasting and online courses were a thing and he methodically built it into a seven-figure business and one of the most dominant podcasts on iTunes Before leaving to start something new his interview show received more than 4 million downloads per month and his new podcast Which he just started from scratch recently has already received more than a million downloads in the first three weeks alone And it’s no surprise giving how hard this guy works and how damn interesting he is He speaks five languages including Mandarin Chinese and Serbian. He used to run a business giving tours of North Korea He’s been kidnapped twice on two different continents and in high school He was an exchange student in the former Soviet stronghold of East Germany his company and interests have led him to study some of the most successful people in the world And from that he’s created a playbook on social dynamics that has made him one of the most sought-after speakers and coaches in the world His work has been presented in Silicon Valley at mega companies such as Google Apple Twitter and Square and he’s given talks on security social engineering and psychology at places such as blackhat Def Con and Harvard Business School Additionally Forbes named him one of the 50 best relationship builders Anywhere and heat magazine paralleled him to one of the best interviewers in modern era so Please help me in welcoming the former phone hacker. And now host of the Jordan Harbinger show Jordan Harbinger. I am stoked to have you on the show dude, you are the master of introductions I would if I didn’t know who you were introducing, I would have been very excited to hear from that person that person Yeah, they’re gonna be here today. Oh good. I’ll stick around exciting what’s crazy is How many weird things you’ve done? Yeah, like the the North Korea, that, in my notes I literally wrote “what the fuck” like I had to go back and like listen to that again I’m like he actually gave tours in North Korea. How does one end up giving tours in North Korea? That’s what my mom wanted to know, too Of course. Wait, how does that happen? are you sure this is allowed a long time ago when I was in law school a Friend of mine kept telling me about Turkmenistan and how weird this place was and how they had this crazy dictator that was renaming the calendar months and everything and Built an ice palace in the middle of the desert and I thought what a weird guy. So that’s for sure interesting But the thing I really want to know is what makes you when your friend goes. Oh, there’s an even crazier dictator. What? Yes, you’ve moved towards that. That’s a good question I think anything that’s really esoteric or forbidden was always appealing to me when I was a kid. So you mentioned former phone hacker Totally great reference because that was me when I was a kid Opening up those green boxes on the side of the road where you needed a special wrench to get it and I thought they don’t Want people to open this you need a special wrench? I’m gonna figure out how to open this and I open it and there’s all these little screws with wires attached to him and I see the lineman with his little orange handset clip and alligator clips on there and I went and got one of those things and Started to play with it in the green box and I was listening to people’s phone calls when I was 13 And I thought this is something I’m not supposed to do that Theoretically doesn’t hurt anyone. So I like that and now as an adult I realized that I still have that bit of code that says people kind of don’t want you to do that and I go Oh well in that case, it’s more appealing So it’s a little bit of a rebellious streak But I’m more interested to learn wipe people are trying to keep something a secret Then I am about breaking the rule itself if that makes sense, totally So this whole like lifeless ordinary thing, is that something that you cultivate? Intentionally like so I know the story you’re a lawyer on Wall Street at the time of the collapse, and so It there was a natural out if you wanted to take it But I don’t feel like you took it because there was a natural out it would have been easy enough for you to do something That was still centered around lobby You don’t you start something that at the time would have been so beyond counterintuitive like in 2006, I’d listened to exactly zero podcast Yeah, I don’t even know if I’d ever heard the word podcast I don’t think people listening today really understand like it didn’t really exist back then no So, how did you.. Why did you get into that? Right, so in college, I had to outwork everyone which is easy because in college everyone’s just drinking partying So I out worked everyone that was my competitive advantage But then I got to Wall Street and everyone was really hardworking and really smart and I thought okay We can all work 20 hours a day seven days a week How do I make myself smarter in a timeframe that’s short enough for me not to get fired because I had hard core imposter syndrome Whereas like they’re gonna figure out I don’t belong here I’m gonna get fired then I’m gonna be out of luck And I have all this debt from law school. So I decided to work on this sort of secret third path which well Actually, I wanted to work from home so that nobody could see how much I didn’t belong at this Wall Street firm There was a partner that always worked from home And eventually I caught up with him and I said “hey you’re never in the office. Do you just work from home a lot?” He actually explained well sometimes but I usually get business I generate the business for the firm by creating and maintaining relationships and that was really interesting to me So I asked him how that was done and he explained Look, I’m friends with these people and they throw us deals and I don’t even worry about my billable hours I just bring in deals and get Commission based on that so I dedicated my life to learning how to create maintain Relationships, because that was my only hope that was my secret third path not outwork everyone I was already working as hard as I could not try to make myself smarter in some way and you’re dealing with real natural talent and hard work with some of these other people that were at my level, but Nobody was thinking about networking in relationships. We all thought well we stay here long enough We put our time in dot dot dot senior associate or partner Country Club network That’s how that worked in my head at age 25 That’s not how that works. You build that network the entire time Deliberately, ideally and then you have those relationships That are valued enough to make you a partner or get you to the top of the law game or any game So I decided to focus on that thinking if I work on this I’ll probably have five years before any of my Colleagues even think about this as a skill set and that time advantage will allow me to master the networking and relationship development skill set That I need to not get fired. Maybe make partner stay at the top of the game So I focused on that Skill set and that was what we were talking about at Bars, and at meetings and things like that and other people wanted to learn these skills too because they started noticing Some of the rewards that were coming from it. I would never wait in line at a bar I would never pay for any food or drinks when I went out I always seemed to know everyone I was with different friends all the time So bartenders doormen everybody knew who I was and that Was appealing to younger guys, and girls for that matter, back in college But it was really useful in the working world So when I finally started to teach these skills on the side I was having the same conversation every night six nights a week because I was going out trying to work on these skills and I started burning those conversations to CDs and Eventually a friend of mine said, you know You might not have to carry a pocket full of crappy burned at home CDs if we can figure out how to distribute these mp3 files in another way there was no way to do that back then and then we found out about Podcasting and at the time there were 800 shows in iTunes There are about 350-400,000 now and that’s what we did we started uploading our conversations to a server and listing them in iTunes and The first couple days we had 24 downloads and couple of them were from South Africa and that’s when the light bulb went off that there’s something here that Nobody’s really paying attention to if I can have a conversation with my friend in his basement or living room and that Can go to South Africa an hour later and someone can email us and say hey, I tried this and it worked We have a new concept here. Remember YouTube did not exist. I think it was like video Wiz or something, right? so it was like this small niche nerd community of people that knew about podcasting and That’s what we started building from there, and we just thought this isn’t a business. It’s a hobby we went on with our lives and Then one day we checked our numbers months and months or years later and we went this is a real snowball There’s really an audience here. Now was that when you were still at the law firm or yes? yeah, I was working at the law firm and then actually sort of moonlighting because a Couple friends of mine said hey, I’m doing this show on Sirius XM satellite radio a couple blocks from your office I don’t want to drive up and make it because there’s too much traffic Can you just do my slot on the show is the guest? So I show up to Sirius XM satellite radio and I go hey I’m here to talk about someone else’s book and I get up there and they’re like you didn’t write the book No Well, we don’t have a guest. What can you talk about body language persuasion influence networking? They said great you’re on in seven minutes go down that hallway. See you later! And we went down the hall set in did the did the show and they said you guys did a decent job Have you done this before? Well, we have this thing called a podcast and the station manager just happened to be listening to that episode of the show And he started listening to our podcast and when I emailed him two weeks later he goes I love this thing you’re doing in your basement If only you actually had a studio and weren’t just talking with a furnace next to you and like noises so he gave us our own show on Sirius XM satellite radio just to see if we could do it and that’s how The show really started to launch and when did you start thinking about it as a business because I can’t think of anything Sort of less likely to turn into a business when you’re peeling out of your law career than that Yeah, that’s a good question the business hobbies shift started to happen Not because we went alright, there’s an audience here. We got to monetize it. That’s what people do now That are smart and think ahead we were not those people what we had was a bunch of free content on the podcast and people started writing in and saying hey, you know I’m having trouble applying some of this stuff Can I call you and I thought this is a great way to not have any free time ever So I said sure but I’m gonna have to charge for it because I don’t want to just do free coaching all the time So this guy said great I’m gonna give you two grand. Can you give me like 20 hours of coaching for that or ten? And I said sure no problem. What do you do for a living? And he said I’m a mortgage banker. I Really want to teach this stuff to my team So he just kept keeping us on retainer and I thought there’s real money here and then him and another friend we’re doing this phone coaching with me during the summer at Law School and Another guy said I just want to come and see you do this stuff and I said sure fine he goes Why don’t I give you … five grand and I’ll stay with you for a week? And I thought that’s creepy, right? That’s a little creepy you want to live with me for a week, and he goes look I’m a normal guy We can talk on the phone for a while so that you know that I’m not a weirdo but I know that if I learn from you in person I Will figure this stuff out and I thought that’s probably a good way to learn this stuff So that was our first client he flew in lived with us for a week basically paid the rent on our Manhattan apartment for a minute and He just ended up being our first training client and That was when we went we’ll wait a second if people are willing to do this and there’s more than one This could be a business where the business was driven by the demand for the service and the coaching and the knowledge It was not okay We’re gonna be life coaches and we’re gonna figure out this curriculum and then start cramming it in people’s face It was the opposite it was here’s all this free stuff If you can use it cool and that became the foundation of the business You said growing up that you were painfully shy. Yes, did you use tactics and techniques to get out of that? And is that Sort of what becomes your teaching or how did you get out of that?
– Great question. Yes. I definitely use tactics and techniques to get out of that and And in the beginning you feel like you’re faking it, right you feel like all this body language stuff you’re just sort of going through the motions and to an extent you are but once people start treating you differently because you’re Open positive confident or at least that’s your first impression You start to realize oh, I’m not being rejected by people at first glance You know I’m sitting up and I’ve got a smile on my face and I feel good about what I’m doing and You start getting attention from people that normally you would think. Oh, I didn’t realize this woman Wanted to date me or this person. wanted to hang out you really Don’t have yourself esteem matching up with the way people are perceiving you and so there’s one way to sort of Fix that right. And that’s you get pulled in one direction So if you think you’re really great, but people treat you poorly your self-esteem drops, right and you eventually meet that expectation but if your self-esteem is sort of shaky like mine was and you’re painfully shy but people start treating you like You’re upright confident positive friendly outgoing you get pulled in that direction instead and that Became a core Concept of what I was teaching because I realized wait a minute I don’t like fake it till you make it but in some respects this really worked for me because I wasn’t lying to anybody I was just acting a little bit more confident than I was and then people went oh He’s comfortable and fun and friendly and I grew into that so I had a core level identity shift Into who I was and sure enough people treated me in That way and I started to become that way because I realized I had nothing to lose So and nothing to fear more importantly, so yeah I really used those techniques at first and they were very robotic and then eventually I realized I can take off the Scaffolding because I’d become the person who I had been trying to be Because you’re not adding a veneer of falsity to you’re not telling fake stories or acting cool or something like that You’re really just being more confident in just for a few moments while people make that first impression of you They start to treat you differently and you start to act into that and it happens. Naturally. You don’t have to force it I love the concept that you have about every time you walk through a doorway the doorway concept and what I love about it is that basically all of this stuff can be practice and once you practice it then it becomes natural and there’s this quote from Bruce Lee which I’ve always loved which is I I kick until I don’t think kick. I just kick. So what is the doorway principle? And why is it so powerful? the doorway drill is really potent because what this does is it fixes body language in a way that creates a different kind of first impression, so Essentially, we’re making people more confident with a pack of post-it notes. So the way that this works is We know our first impressions are made non-verbally and if you don’t believe me if you’re not sure if this is true what you need to do is go walk down the street walk to through them all and your mind will be Making these little judgments about someone tall person. Scary person cute person small child in fun person. You’re making these judgments Subconsciously all the time, but this is evolved behavior. It doesn’t mean you’re Prejudiced or something like that. This is just what your brain does but what that means is that your first impression is made Non-verbally those people don’t have to talk or tell you something clever Or tell you something scary for you to make that judgment about them. You just feel it So the doorway drill is potent because if we walk through a doorway Which we do hundreds of times a week dozens and dozens of times a day Even if you’re just seated in your office, if we reset our body language our nonverbal communication to create a positive first impression Then we don’t have to think about it much anymore because the problem is if you say all right Sit up straight have upright open confident positive body language Then I go into a meeting or a networking event And this first thing that happens is I reset to my defaults computer mode, right because I’m not thinking about it anymore It’s a conscious shift in my body language that I will lose control of. So we have to delegate or relegate that set of nonverbals to a subconscious process and the way to do that is to practice it and the way to practice it is to remember to practice it in the way to remember to practice it is to Do it every time you walk through a doorway. So whenever you walk through a doorway Stand up straight shoulders back chest up chin up smile on your face, and you don’t have to Superman it you’ll look You’ll look awkward and fake. But if you just have open upright confident positive body language every time you walk through that door You will start to do this habitually the problem is we tell you this and the first thing you do is you walk through a door and you forget it instantly because you learned it on impact Theory along with The million other things and it goes right out the window. So take a pack of post-it notes these little tiny ones you don’t have to write anything on it stick them up at eye level in the doorframe or in the doorway of Your office your home wherever you can get away with it. And when you see that you’re gonna go why is there a post-it? Oh right doorway drill up right open positive confident body language now That over time weeks months whatever it takes you will start to do that every time you walk through a doorway the beautiful part of this is our First impressions are often made as soon as people see us And as soon as they see us is usually when we walk into a room through a doorway So every time if we’re resetting our body language every time we walk through a doorway We’re creating a positive nonverbal first impression every time we enter a room and then we don’t have to think about it anymore So we can stay present in Conversations we can get through what we need to get through in a conversational agenda If we have one we can network and meet people and have it look natural and we don’t have to think all right Oh shoot. You were slouching stand up straight. Oh crap. What was Tom saying? I forgot. Oh no now he knows that I’m lost Wait a second. I’m slouching again. That’s what we’re trying to avoid. We just want to make sure our nonverbal first Impression is good when people start treating us differently because of that first impression, then we start to act differently and we start to become Essentially a different more confident person because of the way that other people treat us because the way other people treat us Informs the way we feel about ourselves and then we don’t have to fake it anymore. We don’t have to try hard We don’t have to put on airs, you know respect me. We don’t have to do that anymore We don’t have to do that. Now. You said one of the hallmarks of the Jordan Harbinger show is Takeaways acts, actionable items that people can do and actually implement in their lives What are some other psychological principles that you think people are unaware of that have that real actionable core? Great, so yeah One thing I like to do on the show every show has worksheets so that people can sort of fill out what they’ve learned because I believe that Revision and review. I mean look, I’m a nerd like many many people who are listening or watching I spent way too much time in school So I like to review these things But I will tell you I think one of the the other key psychological Concepts that people should focus on more is not just nonverbal persuasion or communication and things like this But the idea that you can practice something deliberately So you have to deliberately practice the weaknesses and make them as strong as you can While also practicing your strengths and making those the top of your performance. Most people are too lazy to do that They just want to practice everything or they don’t want to even bother to figure out which piece is the most important. I’m super fanatical about that and I think that that’s something that people really overlook is in this debate about you know Do I focus on my strengths or do I focus on my weaknesses and hearing you talk and having done all the research? One thing that I will say you have an extraordinary ability to learn regardless of what the topic is And I find that very interesting walk me through like how have you learned five languages and not easy languages like Serbian and Mandarin Chinese like that’s insane so How do you like what is that process? So I’m a big fan of immersion. What’s funny is people go? Oh, you must have a knack for languages I’m not good at languages and so a question I will always ask people who think that they’re not good at something is How they know that they’re not good at it and usually the answer has to do with the environment that they learn in or the Set up their learning process and very rarely with their actual talents. So people will say, oh, I’m not good at languages How do you know well I took French in high school and I didn’t do well Well, I took French in high school and French was my worst subject every language I took in middle school in high school was terrible I took languages in college a little bit and I was much better at it but I’ll tell you I got really good at languages because when I was a senior in high school I moved to Germany as a next student and I got placed in East Germany Where they didn’t speak English very well and they learned Russian growing up instead of English So I was surrounded by German the whole time and I thought I’m in trouble I was told everybody kind of speaks English and I could get by and I knew I was gonna have to learn some German But I had no idea that it was gonna be the basis for me making friends at all getting by at all So I started to realize that German was really hard surprise and I took some German classes and I learned a little tiny bit and not much and my host parents started to get worried because I wasn’t really talking and Then one day my host father took me out for a beer and he goes look You got to learn German because no one can relate to you and you’re not getting along with other people because they just see you as this weird robotic American guy and then we had another beer and I said I just feel lonely and homesick and all this stuff and he goes but German is not that hard we can teach you and Then he started teaching me a little Here and there and this is three or four months in and then I had another beer and suddenly I could speak German And he went wait a minute. You can speak a lot more German than you let on and I just realized at that moment I was afraid of making mistakes I didn’t know how much I knew and that since I’d been immersed in the language for so long I actually understood a lot more than I thought. So at that moment, I realized I can learn this I just need a different type of learning environment I don’t learn well by memorizing a verb table that a French teacher gave me and said quiz on Friday I learned well by watching a TV hanging out with a bunch of kids my own age and Having them yell things at each other and I hear that over and over and I remembered that that’s actually how humans learn language in general and I realized Immersion is the way to do it Study with a coach study with a teacher do not try to self teach a lot of people self teach It can be great. But you really learn best with a coach for? Anything at all? I have interview and broadcast coaches that teach us on the Jordan Harbinger show I hire and if you can’t find a coach Find a coach anyway, you know find someone on CNN and tweet at them and say can I hire you to teach me interview skills? Someone will eventually respond to you and that’s how I find these types of people So I’ll immerse myself in something to the point where I can Really get any higher on my own and then I will find a coach Generally to take me to the next level and even that’s a mistake honestly some of that is ego I recommend finding a coach as early as you can You should find a coach before you try to do anything because otherwise you’re just unlearning bad habits that you’ve self taught I want to go back to some of these just said which is really really interesting to Basically stalk somebody until you get them to agree to be your coach. Sure What does that process look like and and I want to put it in context of when? Forbes magazine says that you’re one of the best relationship builders Anywhere like dude, I will I will just tell everybody right now. How true this is out of nowhere He reaches out to me and was just like hey been watching your show. I think it’s fantastic Let me know how I can help.
– Did I do that?
– Yes I’m glad I follow my own advice. I was like, whoa, like Jorgen Hart Harbinger is like just reach out to me. This is crazy and You were like. Oh, I think this person be a good guest this person and we’re like, dude we’ve been trying to get them we can’t get them and you were like, oh let me make an intro and then all of a sudden like Like this huge cascade of guests coming on me getting on other people’s podcast. It was huge. And I’ve said Privately a thousand times and this is the God’s honest truth, dude nobody outside of this company has had a bigger impact on this company than you
– Really? Wow!
– from out of nowhere and Your whole thing about you know, give without any expectation of anything in return. You’ve never asked me for anything ever I Was just totally totally blown away. So Leveraging like that ability to reach out in a pretty smooth way Like how do cuz I know people watching this right now, they reach out really clumsily so How can they reach out in an intelligent fashion? To get a hold of somebody that can really be a meaningful mentor a teacher whatever and actually get a yes. Yeah, this is a topic that’s very near and dear to my heart as well because I do remember reaching out to you I didn’t I’m glad to hear I was that impactful and helpful. That’s always nice to hear What people do wrong when they reach out is they go alright, Hey Tom, love your show. You should have me on it because I have a new book and you’re like Oh one of these right? I mean you must get that a hundred times a day I know you do because I do all the time and I don’t usually mind that but it doesn’t work nearly as well As a friend reaching out and saying hey, I’m watching a book in a few months would love to do the show also Here’s a bunch of other things happening. The reason this is important is most people don’t build these relationships Before they need them and these are the same people that would they obviously have a spare tire in the trunk of their car So if they get a flat on the highway They’re taken care of but if they want to build a relationship They’re not thinking about digging that well before they’re thirsty So they’re only looking at what help they need when they need it and that is a huge mistake You have to dig the well before you’re thirsty and you have to give without the attachment to getting something in return so when people want to reach out Stop thinking about what’s in it for you Start thinking about only what’s in it for other people and if you don’t worry about what’s in it for you You will find opportunities that come later down the line and to sort of illustrate this when I moved to LA I had a toothache and it started to get more and more painful and it Really was starting to just dig into my brain. I couldn’t think I didn’t have a car I moved from New York This is pre uber I didn’t have dental insurance cuz I was 27 and you know Who cares about your teeth right you think about those later? Yeah, I’ll get new ones And so I started to desperately call dentists and they were like look I don’t take new patients or I can see you in a week. Go to the ER if you have a toothache And I’m thinking a week. I haven’t slept, you know, this thing is killing me. So I post it on Facebook And obviously I didn’t have my privacy settings set correctly because of random stranger Filled in the comment and said my aunt’s a dentist near you Do you want me to give her a call and I said sure yeah So I went to his aunt the next morning before they officially opened got that thing drilled the hell out Got it filled. She didn’t overcharge me. I send this guy message. Thank you so much. He goes, no problem, man I don’t know what you do I heard you have some show that my friend likes, but I’m glad you got your tooth taken care And I said, let me know if there’s anything I can do He said well, I’m a graphic designer, but I’m working at a cafe right now as a barista I would love to just not make another cup of coffee again, and I said well, I don’t have any work for you But I’ll keep my ear to the ground. He said whatever you can do. No problem I don’t expect you to give me a job. Four days later another entrepreneur friend of mine She writes me and says my web guys are blowing it. I keep firing them who can create good branding for me I said I’ve never worked with this guy but here’s a portfolio. He’s a nice person That’s really all I can say. That guy got a full-time job as far as I know still works there years later designing websites and templates and themes and branding for this woman’s company because he helped me find a dentist on Facebook so if he’d been thinking, how do I get a job? He would never have made that introduction to a dentist because there the connection the nexus is unclear the opportunity lie over the horizon But since he was helping without the attachment or expectation of anything in return He ended up finding an opportunity through me that I didn’t know about and that he didn’t know about But you won’t find those unless you were constantly reaching out digging the well before you’re thirsty and giving without that Expectation of anything in return and last but not least People keep score now. And this is bad. Do not keep score and what I mean by that is if you Interview someone and then you help them you drive them to the airport They don’t owe you anything But people in our heads we create these covert contracts and the reason they’re called covert contracts is because it exists in my head But it doesn’t exist in yours So we’ve got this weird agreement where I Drive it at the airport and then I pick you up and I Drive you again I pick you up and you’re like hey Jordan such a good friend. He’s always got you know, he’s always got time for me He wakes up early so he doesn’t mind driving me to the airport for my super early flights and in my head I go One day I’m gonna make Tom have me on his show and I’m gonna sell my magical weight loss formula and Then one day I pitched this to you and you go. Oh not totally a fit from what we’re doing here an impact Theory I’ll help you in other ways if I can and then in my head I go you son of a bitch, right? I’m mad at you now because you broke the deal that I created in my head You broke the comp the contract the covert contract. So I’m starting to be passive-aggressive. I’m angry with you I can’t change my behavior. Even if it’s a little subconscious. I’m a little bit colder towards you and our friendship gradually dies Why did this happen you? Didn’t do anything wrong I created an agreement in my head where you started to owe me something and you didn’t reciprocate and that made me angry People do this. We do this subconsciously We think other people owe us if someone Creates opportunities for you you introduce them to a bunch of people you help them out a lot That’s it. There’s no agreement to reciprocate now If someone helps you you should reciprocate what you can if someone doesn’t reciprocate towards you though Do not keep score because you are poisoning all of the relationships that you start Because you don’t know how that person might be able to help you in the future You don’t want to create a bad reputation for yourself and you will spend years thinking this person There are one-sided friend. They’re not a friend This person didn’t do this thing for me and years later down the line You just have no idea what could have been because you’re poisoning all of your own relationships so the rules are dig the well before you’re thirsty, give without the expectation or attachment of getting anything in return and Do not keep score. And if you do those three things as a matter of habit throughout the next Rest of your life, in fact, you will have so much opportunity coming into your life You won’t have you want to know what to do with yourself, you know? I really hope people listen to that and in your life right now is such a reflection of that as you’re reinventing Yourself and your brand it’s been incredible and I want to talk about that Reinvention you’ve been crazy like raw and real and vulnerable about it So I’m not so interested in the like what happened to the company to necessitate the reinvention But how do you conceptualize it? And how do you face those fears? so when I left the art of charm and Suddenly found myself. What I thought was out in the cold. I actually was in a Position than I thought because I had actually been following my own advice Dig the well before you’re thirsty give without the expectation of anything in return So when I left the art of charm I actually took the vast majority of the team with me not in some Jerry Maguire moment But in a different type of situation everyone always goes Jerry Maguire, not quite Unless Rene Zellweger is my producer Jason who doesn’t exactly fit fit that mold But I left and I went okay guys and girls what are we gonna do right now? And the answer from the team unanimously was rebuild we already know we want to do we just have to start over and I thought Easy for you to say I’ve been doing the other show for 11 years. I built this business over 11 years now I’ve got to start over. This is terrible. What do I do? And so I had a couple of choices early on one was don’t tell anyone what happened make sure that your pride and ego are intact and try to do this with your team or by yourself and It’s gonna take five plus years because now I know what I’m doing, it won’t take 11 years Maybe it’ll take a mere half decade. The other option was you’ve built a network over 11 years You’ve got a lot of friends. You’ve got a lot of people that want to support you Spread the message about what happened. Not in a look what happened to me. It’s so sad kind of way But in a here’s my little predicament right now What can what ideas would you have and most of the people that I had reached out to who have any sort of? Platform or anything. We’re like, I want to help you. Get back on your feet with the Jordan Harbinger show What can we do to make this happen? And so I reached out to dozens and dozens of people that I knew would? I’ll be honest at first it was like if people start rejecting me I’m gonna feel pretty damn bad about this right it’s gonna take its gonna knock me down even further So I picked people like yourself that I knew wouldn’t be like you’re dead to me click, right? So I found a bunch of people that I consider real friends and I’ve reached out to those people yourself included and I went here’s what’s going on and You’ve been through similar stuff, too And so you empathized of course But also you’re in a great position to say like actually we’d love to make this conversation happen. And so Once the initial first few people had said let’s do this. My confidence was bolstered I had a lot of great mentorship from People on my network like Norm Pat is who owns PodcastOne said don’t skip a beat do your own show forget about the past? Just get back on your feet. But if you’ve got a strong network around you you’re good. No, it’s incredible. I love that You said that it’s not just because Jordan is an incredible interviewer But I’ll say that is part of the equation and how do you think about the very notion of? Going into a crowded arena or whatever having to start over How do you think about being great, how are you approaching your interviews? Sure so the one thing that I know that you and I do Probably more than other interviewers At least the ones I’ve spoken to is we do more homework than anyone whenever I interview somebody I always look for the Tom Bilyeu Interview because I know that you read the book you looked at all the videos You had people make sure that they weren’t on hashtag me too somewhere Right like you did all the homework for that person and I know that your interview is gonna be really good and I too will read the book watch the videos and do everything and I Know that we’re gonna be able to pull these things out, but the question is that it’s a crowded arena How are we gonna be great? well If I’m doing exactly what you’re doing, then are either of us great, or am I just copying you? So what what I will do is I will always outwork The next guy and I will do my own I’ll put my own angle on everything just like you do with this like you’ve got this incredible production You’ve got these incredible interviews. They’re always enthusiastic. They’re always inspirational your crew around you is is second to none What me and my team do is strive for similar quality Except I will always go for let’s say practicals and so I put my own look like unique spin on that You’ve talked pretty openly about some of the anxiety that you’ve gone through and rebooting the show and the uncertainty Financially that comes with building the business from scratch What techniques have you used actually overcome the anxiety?
– I would love to say Oh, yeah, I had all this anxiety and then I started using this app and meditating and everything was fine That is not what happened. Not at all. What happened was? Yeah It was I went from alright, we’ve got this nice multi seven-figure business The shows really grace got this huge audience – okie dokie. How are we gonna figure out what to do luckily? I am a saver. I plan well financially and I I think that that is underrated because when you have no debt when you have a backup Set up six months or a year of finances Even if you have to downgrade your lifestyle a little bit the level of freedom that you have is enormous Because when I started asking friends what to do they want. Oh, man, you need to get income you need to do all-in There’s a list of projects they came up with that are all Distractions from rebuilding the Jordan Harbinger show into what it needs to be It’s like you got to go on a speaking tour and you need to write a product and you need to start selling ebooks online You need to do that. That would have been fine I would have had to do that if I were going broke in a month But I wasn’t because I had planned for in inevitable situations such as this So instead I’m able to spend the next year and change focusing on what’s really gonna matter in five years and not trying to figure out how to keep the lights on and Keep people paid and keep myself in with a roof over my head so I think it’s really important to make sure that you It sounds cliche as I suppose again But if you dig the well before you’re thirsty financially you’ll be ok later as well if you just assume everything is gonna work out or that you can figure out how to get income when you need it because many of Us are crafty and smart. That’s fine, but I don’t want to spend time trying to make Short-term money when I have a long-term goal So first of all plan ahead if you find yourself unable to do so because you’re in this situation now And you did not plan ahead. Okay, all is not lost What I would say is the anxiety that I had that I still have Sometimes you have to zoom out far enough on the timeline and that sort of cures all and here’s what I mean by that Effective I guess is what people would call it What I’ve been doing is zooming out far enough on the time line in thinking. Okay, is this gonna matter in a week? Maybe is it gonna matter in a month? Probably not. It’s hard to take comfort in that when that week. You feel crushed that in a year You’re gonna feel better But if you put yourself in that situation where you’re zooming out far enough on the timeline your own timeline You realize huh? Has anyone ever stolen from me before sure what are they doing now? Doesn’t matter how often you think about it Never how did you feel in that moment? Pretty much like you do now, okay So that I have been through things like this before. Yeah, and you survived. Well, not only that Thrived great, but I still feel bad right now. You’re allowed to just realize that every second you spend feeling sorry for yourself is a total waste of time and Set a timer if you need to on your fancy Apple watch and give yourself time to have your temper tantrum Call your mom and cry go take a nap whatever you need to do and then put your pants back on your britches back up and Get back to work. The one thing that made me feel better Was getting back to work because I had all this anxiety Which was energy I had that I didn’t know what to do with I Was running around like a chicken with my head cut off and I spent a lot of it just whining or being like I can’t Do this. I don’t know how to do this. None of that was helpful But when I called my team and called my network my podcast network and they said don’t skip a beat Just get back to work and produce the Jordan Harbinger show Stop whining about what happened to your last one and your last business when I got back in the studio And I started moving forward again. I realized a Lot of the anxiety was this energy had no place to go It was like a blender that you left the top off of and it’s shooting all over your kitchen. I Needed to focus this in one direction. And so when I focused that energy into producing a great show rebuilding my business I started to feel better again because if you’re doing everything you freakin can to get back on your feet Then when you go to bed at night, you don’t think how am I gonna do this? You realize you’re gonna do this one day at a time one step at a time one brick at a time Along those lines you wrote a really cool article recently and the key takeaway for me was Action and suffering. Yes. I thought that was really cool. That was an accidental find right? I didn’t think I’ve got to take action and end the suffering. I’ve got to direct my energy in one direction It was kind of like, okay Am I gonna try to sleep all day or be depressed or be angry or am I just gonna get back to work? that that was my choice at the end and I feel like a lot of us have those choices the action ended the suffering in many ways But I didn’t expect that to be the result I really thought I was just gonna distract myself and that was the initial plan just distract yourself with work But what I didn’t realize was the work wasn’t just going to distract me it was gonna take all of that drama and pack it into a neat little ball put it in a drawer and not worry about it anymore because I had a bigger mission and Part of that was the audience the Jordan Harbinger Show audience. There were people going where’s the show and the answer was it’s it’s on the way I didn’t miss one episode of The show when I left the art of charm it ended on a Thursday I would have had to release an episode on Tuesday But I wasn’t a part of the company anymore. The first episode of the Jordan Harbinger show came out that following Tuesday
– Wow I called a friend Mark Geragos, who’s was Michael Jackson’s lawyer and stuff And I said, what do you do on a Saturday? And he said I’m really busy because I’m a really a Million clients and I said great 11:00 a.m. Works fine for me. Okay, and he did the show and we launched it right then and People who were with us early went. Oh my gosh You don’t even have a website and I said it’s coming. But the first episode of the show is out Action ends suffering not gonna be universally true for every type of suffering It might only alleviate some of it but we see this pattern in people. We see the person who’s Lost a child in a shooting or something and is now speaking about it We see people who have undergone great tragedy and now run a charity that helps people who’ve been victims of similar Situations or of different situations that action helps them Eliminate or mitigate their suffering and so this was an accidental discovery For me so I can’t take credit for it. But what I can say is if you find that you are suffering right now Try taking action instead of taking a bath in that suffering and I know it’s easier said that done trust me I know that but trust me that this works as well so powerful All right before I asked my last question tell these guys where they can find you and the new show Sure. Sure so
You are either watching this or listening to a podcast version right now search for the Jordan Harbinger show in your podcast app or iTunes we do have some clips that take place in the YouTube sphere but Really? I would love if people would find me and listen to the show because I will make damn sure that every minute of your time Your ear your ear balls your share of ear, whatever we want to call that has been earned I will earn every moment of your attention on the Jordan Harbinger show. That is my promise to you So give us a shot and let me know what you think Yeah, and I will just say that I think it’s even better than what you were doing on the art of charm I think you broaden things out a lot more. I think the interviews are more deft Really I’m super stoked on this thing. It’s absolutely fantastic. Thank you, brother. All right My final question is what’s the impact that you want to have on the world? I want to make sure that people get tools to improve their lives on a regular basis that they can improve incrementally every single time they listen, so every episode of the show you learn something you put it in you like those little one-piece Legos those little 1es you just stack them up and eventually if you get enough of those you could build a castle that Is what I’m trying to deliver because I think that as busy as people are Even though the smartest of us are always trying to learn it’s hard to read a book or two every week It’s hard to make sure we’re moving forward and learning when we’re trying to build our own business or keep a career or manage a family so I want to deliver this knowledge and this value in a way that people can get at the gym in the car, etc And then take those little tiny one-piece Legos and after a couple of months or a couple years they go. I Built a freaking castle. Thank you That is what I want to do is make it bite-sized enough that anyone and everyone can do it in makes their life better Very similar to what you’re doing here. I think thank you man Great answer. Thank you so much for being on the Thursday All right, guys, I’m telling you. There’s a reason he’s considered the godfather of podcasting This guy takes greatness to a whole new level and I’m telling you that behind the scenes Everything that he’s talking about on camera and on the podcast he’s doing in real life I cannot emphasize enough how excited I was to bring him on the show because I Wanted to do something nice for him because he had done so much for me. So not only did I think he’d be an amazing guest but that sense of really building real friendships nurturing them making sure that they’re Blossoming of their own accord and never literally you can feel it and everything he does He’s never worrying about what the payoff is gonna be and that is how you get a payoff and you know me I’m a big believer in holding to competing ideas in your head and He is the master at this he knows that that’s a good strategy he knows that and yet he can approach you with such authenticity and Give you those Legos whether those Legos are a piece of information whether they are a connection He is doing that better than Anyone, I think I’ve ever met in my entire Life it is absolutely extraordinary. There is much for me to learn from this man He is Whenever possible one of the first videos I go to research somebody that we have coming on the show because he gets absolutely amazing stuff go watch his show subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger show and Look at how he approached his life without a sense of scarcity He’s the dominant force and yet he reached out to me to find out how he could help that is so beautiful. And so Inspiring and it’s just incredible and as something I think that we can all learn So if you haven’t already be sure to subscribe and until next time my friends be legendary. Take care Everybody thank you so much for watching and being a part of this community if you haven’t already be sure to subscribe you’re gonna get weekly videos on building a growth mindset cultivating grit and Unlocking your full potential