The Iterative Marketing Podcast Ep. 23: A Deep Dive Into ‘See’ State

The Iterative Marketing Podcast Ep. 23: A Deep Dive Into ‘See’ State


Hello, Iterative Marketers!
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of your fellow Iterative Marketers. Now let’s dive into the show. Hello everyone, and welcome to
the Iterative Marketing podcast. I’m your host, Steve Robinson, and with me, as always, is the
delightfully gracious Elizabeth Earin. How are you doing today, Elizabeth? I am good, Steve.
How are you? I’m doing great.
It’s been a good day so far. Now, you came in from the woods
this morning, isn’t that correct? I did. I had a longer
than normal commute. I think I mentioned this
in an earlier episode, but we purchased
a trailer this year, so we’re trying to
take full advantage. And the mountains aren’t too far away and so my husband and son went up
and have been camping for a few days, and I went and joined
them last night and then sat around the campfire. It’s good for your soul. It’s a great way to reset, and then got up bright
and early this morning and drove back to make it
back in time for our podcast. Wonderful, wonderful. Everything went smoothly
with the new camper? It did. The camper is fun. It was interesting though, because usually my husband is the one that
does the driving out to the woods and I never pay attention. And so I had to drive out
there myself last night. So in an attempt to
make sure I didn’t get lost, in addition to writing me instructions — which included turn left at the large
tree which I mentioned this to you earlier doesn’t really make sense because
there a lot of large trees in the forest, but he was very proud of himself — he went to Target and he bought
oversized big giant plates and then wrote “Liz, turn here”
with a big arrow and plastered those along the road. So, I was a little nervous and then I saw the first plate
and I’m like, “Okay I’m good.” and then after like the
sixth or seventh plate, I am like, all right, thanks for the
vote of confidence. I made it. I made it in one piece and I got
back here and all is good. Excellent. So what are we talking about today? Today, we are going to take
a deep dive into the “See” state. It’s part of our “See, Think,
Do, Grow, Give” we’ve covered in a past episode. But as we mentioned in that episode,
there’s a lot more we could talk about. So today we’re going to start with
the very first state and that’s “See.” Wonderful. And so we will kind of go through a
quick review of all the journey states, then talk about what are we trying to
do when we are targeting the “See” state, right? And then take a look
at how we target them and then what we give them
as far as content, right? Yes, and again, like we said, this is
all stuff we’ve mentioned before. And we will link to
our past episode that covers all of the journey
states in the show notes and you can listen
to that if you’d like, but for now, before we jump into
the more in depth of “See” state, do we want to give a quick
review of the journey states? Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. So in our model which differs slightly from Avinash Kaushik’s
original model of “See, Think, Do,” we have five journey states. We have the “See” audience,
which we will be discussing today, which is the audience that is not in
market for your product or service but is still qualified to buy
your product or service. We have the “Think” state. They are thinking or considering or have an inkling that they might need your product
or service in the near future, but there is no immediacy
to that need. There is no definitive timeframe
or commitment to themselves or another person to buy. The “Do” state is where
we see that commitment. We see that immediacy to the need. We see a commitment to purchase, either committed to themselves, or maybe if it’s B2B, someone
else in the organization, or if it’s B2C, someone
else in the household. And then from there is where we
differ a little bit from Avinash’s model. We have the “Grow” and “Give” state. The “Grow” state is the state
at which you’re trying to grow — or the customer’s growing
into your organization. They are possibly picking up
additional products or services. They are possibly becoming more
avid users of your product or service. And then “Give” is where they’re
ready to give back to the organization. They have grown to love your
product or service and/or brand to the extent that
they’re referring others. They’re leaving reviews.
They’re sharing your content. they are part of your family
and vice-versa. And I think it’s important to note that
when we talk about these states, these are states of being for
your audience as a whole and you can count on everyone in your
audience being in one of these five states provided they’re qualified to
buy your product or service. You just don’t necessarily
know for sure which one. Is that pretty a good sum up? It is. I think one other point that I think
makes sense to maybe talk about is why do we care about journey states? And again, if you listen to the
previous podcast, we get into this. But just a real quick touch base in that at any given point your
audience is in one of these states and their needs and what their expectations
are is going to vary differ — greatly differ — sorry about that — depending on which state they’re in. And so it’s important to understand not only kind of what they’re thinking and feeling, but then what’s the best way to reach them and what’s the best message to get to them? And that’s really what we’re
going to dive in today when we start talking
about the “See” state. So let’s jump into what the goals
are for your “See” state audience. What are you trying to achieve when you do actually reach
them with some content, whether that’s paid, earned,
owned, or shared, right? And I think it’s important
to remember that this group is the least
receptive to your content. They’re not thinking about your
product, service or brand at all. It’s not top of mind. It’s what they’re
trying to filter out, so you have to set the bar pretty low
on what you’re trying to accomplish. We’re really looking to create
a familiarity with the brand and create in an emotional
connection with the brand so that when they do start
to think about this product or about your brand
or about your services, that you are top
of mind for them so they’re not kind of
starting from scratch. You’ve already appeared
on their shortlist. Right. So that requires there to be some
awareness of your brand and what it does. And then ideally, through
repeated exposure — this is called the
mere exposure effect. Google it. It’s really fascinating. There’s lots of studies
about it out there. But basically, just by merely
being exposed to a brand, you begin to develop an affinity. The same thing is true of a person. If you see the same person on a regular basis, you begin to consider that
person as safe, as comfortable, because you’ve seen them repeatedly. And at the end of the day our
brands replace the people. A brand is a relatively new concept.
It’s only a couple hundred years old. And prior to that, we determined
who we did business with based on the people that
we knew, liked and trusted. So if you didn’t know,
like, or trust someone, you didn’t do business with them. And now we have to interact with
faceless organizations and decide do we know them?
Do we trust them? Do we like them enough to do business with them? And so when we look at our “See” state, our goals when reaching our “See” state audience, it’s to get them to know, like and
trust us enough to engage with us when they enter that
“Think” or “Do” state. We’re laying the groundwork before
the product or service or brand is even on their mind. And so that when they, again,
do start thinking about that, they’ve already got an idea. Our brand pops into their mind. Our service or product
pops into their mind. And I guess one other
final point is that — and we’ll talk more about this later
because it gets a bit confusing, but when we look at
our “See” audience, we want to deliver primarily content
that’s appropriate for our “See” audience. But we also need to make sure
that we deliver some content that’s appropriate for other states
of the journey, namely “Think” or “Do,” because we need to be able to detect
when somebody is in “Think” or “Do” and we’ve accidentally
targeted someone that wasn’t “Think” or
“Do” with our “See” content, so that we can move them
to the appropriate state. We will talk more
about that later. Before we do though, I think we should probably jump to
how do we target the “See” audience? Our “See” media is all about
targeting reach and frequency and how well-targeted is our channel. When we take a look at
using a billboard, for example, we’ve got a really great reach but part of the problem is
we’re reaching a lot of people and maybe not necessarily
the people we want to reach. Maybe we’re targeting the
mom who’s driving the car but we’re also getting her
6-year-old sitting in the backseat and maybe grandma who’s visiting, and so now we’ve got more eyeballs on
it but not necessarily the right eyeballs. And then the other thing
that you want to watch when you’re measuring or trying to
target your media for “See” state is what is your frequency. So are you hitting these people
an appropriate number of times and are you hitting the same people? And this is the biggest trick, because oftentimes, we’ll take a look
at “See” state media targeting — billboard is a great example — and if we don’t do that
consistently enough and leave it out there in
the market long enough or have enough impressions
with the same people, we might be hitting one group
of people one week and another group of
people the next week and a third group the following week and that media doesn’t
have the desired effect because we’re not
building that affinity. We’re not getting in front of
that same audience repeatedly and the mere exposure
effect doesn’t apply. And it goes, I think, to the
opposite of that as well. You can target them too much
to the point that you actually – – your brand starts to
turn them off a bit. And so I wish there
was some sort of, like, written in stone rule, but there’s not. Every brand is different.
Every product is different and so you really have to
decide what that rate – frequency is for your brand
and your product and your service. And there’s some metrics
in place that you can use to sort of try and gauge
that effectiveness. And it’s hard because you’re trying
to measure the effectiveness of your repeated brand
impressions while they’re in “See” and how well that improves
the performance of your “Think” and “Do” state content and how much that impacts revenue
3, 6, 9, 12 months down the road. And so being able to tie that
ROI back is really challenging. And there are some methods to do it, but I will say they
are clunky at best and we are just now
getting to the point where we were able to
run some of these tests and I’ve spent a long time looking for
third-party studies and case studies. And we’re not alone in having a
hard time measuring the impact of “See” state content on
improvements in revenue and conversions from your
“Do” state audience down the road. So Steve, let me ask you this, how do we actually go about
targeting the “See” state? Well, it depends a little bit on the
constraints of the medium that you’re using, because if you’re using
a more traditional medium, you probably don’t have the
ability to include or exclude certain members of the audience
based on data that you have in hand. So, for example, television
is going to hit everybody regardless of whether or not that person
is somebody that’s in your database and you know that they
are in “See, Think, or Do” it’s going to hit everyone. So in that case, you have to assume that
the majority of that audience is in “See,” because the reality is you
have no way of knowing because you can’t target it
more specifically than than everybody who’s watching that
particular television channel at that time. That doesn’t mean that
everybody there is in “See.” It just means that that’s the
assumption that you have to make. So that’s on the traditional side. What about the digital side? On the digital side, usually we have
the ability to filter out our audience based on the information
that we have at hand and that could be
first party or third party. First party data is the data that
you’re able to accumulate based on either their record in your CRM
or marketing automation system or whatever other database you have
that’s driving your marketing or based on their activity as
they engage with your content. Occasionally, you can also use
third party data for this. There are a number of markets where there are companies
that will sell access to people who are actively in market for your service, and so it becomes a matter of excluding. And in all cases, it is
a matter of excluding because you can’t find —
it’s like looking for the absence of something. You’re looking for the
absence of interest. That’s not something
you can go out and find. So what you want to do is
you want to identify an audience that is very well targeted as far as how qualified they are
for your product or service but isn’t necessarily well-targeted
along the journey state, and then exclude those people you know
that are in other states of the journey. I was going to say I had
a hard time with this at first, because in my mind, I want to
move through each process. So I was thinking
why can’t we just, the first time they come to our
website, they’re going to be “See” state because it’s the first time
they come to the website. But we have to keep in mind that we
have both online and offline tactics that we are using, and so they may be in “Do” state
and have never been to our site because they were in our
store talking to someone. And I think you helped to
really open my eyes to this and you used the example of
selling washers and dryers. So say we’re selling
washers and dryers, and we want to target some
media digitally at our “See” state. We’re going to start out by targeting
probably homeowners, right? Because if you
aren’t a homeowner, you don’t really have a need for a washer
and dryer or any place to put it. So, we’re going to target homeowners
with a certain income level that they can afford our particular
brand of washer and dryer. And then from there, we are going
to start excluding audiences. So we’re going to want to take all
of our “Grow” and “Give” audience out which is going to be our
existing customer base. So if we’re able to ascertain that
you bought a washer-dryer from us in the last five years, we’re going to exclude you. And then after we have that
“Grow” and “Give” audience out, now we’re going to
take a look at anybody who is actively talking
to a salesperson or who has engaged
with “Do” state content. The “Buy now or you’re going to
miss out on the sale” type content, or maybe how to finance your
washer/dryer purchase content. That content clearly indicates
that somebody is in “Do,” and so we can take anybody who’s
interacted with that “Do” state content and anybody who’s been in the
store talking to a salesperson out, because they’re
ready to purchase now so they’re not “See” state. Then we do the same thing with “Think” state now. Those people aren’t walking in the store. So we’re now looking at how they
engaged in content that is “Think” state. And so are they engaging
with Facebook content, that is “10 things you need to consider when it’s time to replace
your washer or dryer,” or “three signs that your
appliances are wearing out.” That sort of content that would
mean that they’re inkling — that maybe it’s about time
but they have no commitment. You’re going to take that
audience and exclude it. And so what you’re left with
is a qualified audience. People who are homeowners
and have the income level to purchase your
washers and dryers, but as far as we know, they have not indicated any interest
in your products and services. They’re not actively buying
and they haven’t bought recently, so they’re not within that customer set. And once you have excluded everything else, you’re left with an audience that
you have to, by your best guess, assume is “See” state, and target
your media accordingly. And that’s why we dangled out
a little bit of “Think” and “Do” content in front of them as though that, if we
have made that wrong assumption in how we’ve sort of
backed into the “See” state, we can get them into the right state. So if we put that “Think” content out
there and they engage with that, then we know they need
to move to “Think,” and then the same
can be said with “Do.” Exactly. Because they may have not
interacted with any of our content. They may have not
walked into our store, but may have walked
into a competitor’s store. We may be completely
oblivious to the fact that they’re not in “See.”
We need to detect that. Great point. Okay. So I think now is a great time
for us to take a quick break and talk about how we
can help some folks. Before we continue, I’d
like to take a quick moment to ask you Iterative Marketers
a small but meaningful favor and ask that you give a few dollars to a
charity that’s important to one of our own. This week’s charitable cause was
sent in by Susan Ash in Montana. Susan asks that you make a contribution
to the Watson Children’s Shelter, an organization dedicated to providing
a safe and nurturing environment for children who have experienced abuse,
neglect, abandonment or family crisis. Learn more at watsonchildrensshelter.org or visit the link in the show notes. If you would like to submit
a cause for consideration for our next podcast, please visit iterativemarketing.net/podcast and click the “Share a Cause” button. We love sharing causes that
are important to you. And we’re back. So before we left, we talked about
targeting your media to your “See” state and what we’re looking at as far
as a how we reach that audience. Now let’s flip that and talk about the content that we’re
actually trying to deliver to our “See” state and what that looks like. Before we get too far
in that conversation, kind of the reminder that I think it’s important
to keep in mind is that our “See” state audience isn’t even
thinking about our product or service, so this is not the time to start
talking about the features and the benefits and the pricing. If we start doing that at this point,
then we’re going to turn these people off because they are not
interested in that at all. Instead, we want to focus on,
as we mentioned earlier, building that connection
to our brand, creating a brand affinity. Yeah, if you think about it, if you recall the last time
that you bought a car just before and just after
you made that purchase, okay? You suddenly started seeing that particular make and model
of the car all over the road. Prior to that, you probably thought you
were special in buying this particular car, and all of a sudden you’re realizing, “Wait, everybody else has the same
car as the one I just bought.” Well, that’s not true at all. What happened is that the parts of our
brains that we don’t really notice are there are really, really good at filtering
out the non-applicable information. And so that make
and model of car as it was driving around on
the streets around you as you were navigating
your way through the city wasn’t pertinent
information to your brain until you started looking at buying that
particular make and model of car, and then in that part of your
brain, a switch flipped and said, “Okay, that’s relevant information.
I am going to let that through. I am going to let that to the
conscious part of the brain so that it can process it.” Now, why is this important when
we talk about “See” state content is because your “See” state audience
is actively filtering out everything that isn’t applicable to them, which includes any of your messages
about product, service, features, benefits and why you should buy now,
and hurry, hurry, hurry. They don’t care. It’s not applicable to them And so this is where that
idea of banner blindness and the fact that people don’t
notice advertising anymore. Well, they don’t if it’s not relevant to
them at their state in the journey. Now that doesn’t mean that you
can’t advertise to “See” state. Instead, it means that we need
to focus our creative on topics that are either relevant and are
going to break through that filtering, or that are simple enough that
the mind can kind of take it in and acknowledge it without
having to think too hard about it. And so when we look at
it from that perspective, there’s really sort of two routes that we
can go in terms of our “See” state content. And that first one that I mentioned
sort of is a relevant topic. We want a topic that is going
to be relative to the prospect at that specific moment. So you kind of put
yourself in their shoes. What are they thinking about?
What are they worried about? how can you break through that filter
and get on their radar? And a great example of this is the — I know you love this commercial, Steve, but the State Farm
Never Letting Go commercial. If you are someone who is
in that phase of your life, you watch that commercial and you
think, yep, that resonates with me and now you may not have been
thinking about insurance at all but every parent out there knows
the Never Letting Go commercial. Exactly. Some of them hate it, like, perhaps Elizabeth. Not a fan. But everyone can relate to that as far
as “I am never entering that next life stage,” and then all the sudden you’re there and you look back and think about
how foolish you were in the past. And now the question is,
do they remember that State Farm had anything
to do with that commercial? And that’s a very good question, and in my case, I happen to.
But I’m also a marketer, so I am paying attention to who’s
putting what messages out there. You ask a random
panel of people, they may not know, consciously, which brand had anything
to do with that commercial but that commercial
was relevant to them. Where they were had nothing
to do with insurance, but it was relevant to
them where they were and drew their attention to the extent that when they did
pop the State Farm logo up there and started talking about it, then the subconscious part of the
brain was for sure had their eyes and was paying attention to the
screen at that particular moment. Getting back to that filtering idea, I remember the first
time I watched it. I could not tell you who
had done the commercial, but I remembered the commercial. And then the next time I paid
a little closer attention, and then the third time
I paid even closer attention. And I think it was about then that I decided
that it was not my favorite commercial, and so then I really wanted to
know who had had designed it. But it’s the same way I can
think of other commercials that have done the same thing. The very first time I’ve seen it,
I may not remember it but I remember the message. I remember the feeling
that it evoked inside and now my ears are open. So the next time
the jingle comes on, I literally will walk from the
kitchen to the living room to see, “Wait, Oh! This is that commercial
I like. I am going to watch it.” Who does that anymore? Exactly, exactly. So it’s creating that emotional
association to the brand by putting content that is
entertaining or informative in a way that it’s meeting
the audience where they are and where their interests lie, because it’s not with
your product or service. And another example, this is
when a brand publishes an app. And we’ve referred to these
two examples in the past, but the Charmin’s sit or squat app, which is Elizabeth’s favorite, or the – Why do you always bring up the
commercials that just rub me the wrong way! It’s more fun that way. Oh! I’m glad you’re entertained. And then the Columbia Sportswear
Knot app is another example of, again, we’re meeting the
audience where their needs are, whether they are bodily or knots, and where we are creating a positive
brand association in the process. And you may not consciously
remember who made that knot app that you use all the time, and that’s okay, because you’re subconsciously
creating that association. But this isn’t the only – trying to meet the
audience where they are isn’t necessarily the only way that we
can create effective “See” state content. We can also essentially
dumb it down, right? Yes, we can, and that’s where we sort of — we’re trying
to engage the passive part of the mind. And when we do this, we’re really focused on a
very simple brand message. Our logo is very prominent. There may be an emotional association
or response associated with it. It may be something that’s more
focused on high repetition. But some examples of where
we see this quite frequently is we see this with sports
team sponsorships. That’s a great example of, again, we’ve got a high-frequency. You’re hitting a somewhat
targeted audience. Again, you’re getting
some of that spillover but you’re still getting people
that you know are in line with your product
or service or brand. And then billboards are
another great example, and we talked
about those earlier where you can get your logo
and a very simple message out. But again, that repetition is there and so even if you’re not
consciously thinking about it, you still have that somewhere
in the back of your mind. Now we’ve talked about content
that is targeted at that “See” state and the two routes
you can go with that, but we also mentioned earlier that it’s
important to mix in some Think” and maybe even
some “Do” state content in the channels that are
targeting your “See” state. Do you want to reiterate
why that is, Elizabeth? Yes. Before I do though,
I want to hit on one thing because if you go back and you listen to
the “See, Think, Do, Grow, Give” episode, we say very clearly that you should
not mix content between your states, and you shouldn’t. What you’re saying to
your “See” audience is what you are saying
only to your “See” audience. It doesn’t apply necessarily to your
“Think” or “Do,” and vice versa. Where we are making this exception, why we are saying this is okay is that there is some percentage of your
“See” audience that’s in “Think” or “Do,” and we just don’t know about it yet. And we talked about that earlier, and so we’re going to take a
small percentage of the creative that we have available, the creative that we’re
putting out there, and we are going to
introduce “Think” content and we are going to
introduce “Do” content. Again, it’s going to be a small
percentage of the message that our audience
is actually seeing. If they’re interested
and they engage with it, then now we know that,
okay, this person is in “See”, this person is “Think”
or this person is “Do”. If they don’t engage with it, again, it’s a small percentage and so we haven’t really done anything
to turn them off to our brand. But we’ve given them
that opportunity that, if they’re ready to take that
next step, it’s there for them. An important thing to note with
this is that we are, by no means, advocating that you mix in some “Think”
messages to your “See” state content. We’re talking about creating separate
pieces that are “Think” oriented from the pieces that
are “See” oriented, so don’t try and put calls to action
on your “See” state brand ads, because all that does is it reduces the
effectiveness of that “See” state content. And yeah, you may be able to
detect a couple thinkers out of it, but really, you’re just turning
a “See” state piece of content into a “Think” state content because your “See” audience isn’t going
to take the time to pay attention to it and any clutter will diminish the
ability for it to accomplish its goal of taking advantage of
that mere exposure effect or of creating an emotional
association with the brand. And it gets a very
important distinction, so thank you for making sure
our listeners understand that. I think one other thing that we
want to make very clear when we’re talking about
not only our “See” state but really any of them, is that we are not pushing our
audiences from one state to the next. Only our audience can make the decision
when they’re ready to move forward. Instead, we are using our content as
sort of a guided path, a doorway, for when they’re ready to take that action.
We’re letting them know where to go. We don’t want to just leave them hanging, because if we leave them hanging, they’re
not going to know what action to take and they’re not going to
take any action at all. So instead, we are giving them
that doorway to walk through when they are ready on their own. Thank you for reiterating that.
That is so important. To continue the little PSA rant
that we are on right now, I think there’s
one other key point that I think is a great place
for us to leave off on, and that is that as
we’ve worked with clients and as we’ve been in this
industry for a number of years, we find over and over and over again
brands gravitate towards “Think” and “Do.” And in my experience, they do
this for one of two reasons. They either do it because “Think” and
“Do” is much easier to measure — you’re asking that audience to
change an opinion about something you can measure later, or you are asking
them to take action and the actions are
inherently measurable. And so there’s this desire to, if I’m going
to spend money, know how it was used. The other reason why I think that
some other clients gravitate towards “Think” and “Do” is because it’s
that much closer to revenue. And so the idea is that, if I spend this
money, I’m going to get a return faster and the return is more direct and it’s less risky
because of that, and the reality is that that’s
not necessarily true. You’ve got such a small percentage
of your audience that’s in “Do” state and a small percentage
that’s in “Think”. A big majority, your biggest is
going to be that “See” audience. And so if you start
talking to them today, if you start building that brand
affinity with them today, we are greasing the skids so that when they do move into “Think”,
when they do move in to “Do,” and we’ve talked
about this before, they’re more open to our brand.
They’re more open to our message. They know who we are and we’ve got a higher chance of getting
those “Think” and “Do” state prospects to convert with our brand
and not one of our competitors. And so I wish — if there was one
thing I could — and I feel bad. I feel like I beat this into
the heads of our clients — is just really understanding that,
yes, I understand why “Do” is important. I understand that you’re
seeing those conversions and that’s giving you
revenue right now, but let’s look to the future too, because if we’re constantly focused on
right now, we are never going to get ahead. We’re always going to be
chasing that next sale. If we start talking to our “See” audience
now and building that brand affinity, then we’re setting ourselves
up for future success. I’ve seen it where we’re
recognizing that “See” audience is the difference between a positive
ROI and the rest of your marketing that’s attacking “Think” or “Do”. Without “See,” the rest of it
doesn’t even cash flow and so it’s really, really important. And on that note, before we feel like — our
entire audience feels like we’ve been preaching
at them for an hour, I think it’s a great
point for us to wrap up. So I want to thank everyone
for making time for us this week, and until next week,
onward and upward. If you haven’t already, be sure to
subscribe to the podcast on YouTube on your favorite podcast directory. If you want notes and links to
resources discussed on the show, sign up to get them emailed to you
each week at iterativemarketing.net. There, you’ll also find
the Iterative Marketing blog and our community LinkedIn group, where you can share
ideas and ask questions of your fellow Iterative Marketers. You can also follow us on Twitter. Our username is @iter8ive or email
us at [email protected] The Iterative Marketing Podcast is
a production of Brilliant Metrics, a consultancy helping brands and agencies
rid the world of marketing waste. Our producer is Heather Ohlman with transcription assistance
from Emily Bechtel. Our music is by SeaStock Audio,
Music Production and Sound Design. You can check them out
at seastockaudio.com. We will see you next week. Until then, onward and upward!

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