The Hackintosh Movement | TDNC Podcast #116

The Hackintosh Movement | TDNC Podcast #116

Hey everyone, it’s Colin. How’s it going? there’s a collection of Mac aficionados who are very passionate about their computers and Often know way more about how they work than the average user But these people didn’t buy their machines from Apple they built in themselves this time Let’s talk about the hackintosh So the hackintosh it’s probably a term that you’ve heard But in case you haven’t it’s simply the concept of running Apple’s Mac operating System on non Apple branded hardware and it’s been going on for quite a while now but to fully understand the movement behind this we need to take a look at Apple’s history because what’s going on now is a bit of a repeat of what’s happened before you see Apple has always tied its software and hardware together in its product It was always wanted to control the whole experience and this concept is pretty well known It’s been apple’s modus operandi ever since the beginning But what’s not quite so well known is that there have been clone Apple products throughout the year also Pretty much since the beginning there have been Apple 2 compatible machines like the laser 128 and the Franklin a series some of these were completely reverse Engineered and others simply copied apples ROM code and faced the consequences in some cases But even after the Apple 2 there have been many Macintosh clones throughout the decades early clones like the outbound laptop used the ROM chips from an actual Mac in order to function, but by the mid-1990s Apple began to officially license its OS to clone manufacturers and a whole ton of different machines appeared on the market some of them from companies that Popped up just to build Mac clones others from existing Mac vendors that hadn’t built their own full computers before and Some even from vendors that were well known and decided to branch into the computer market but clones ultimately hurt Apple for various reasons and So around the time that Steve Jobs came back to Apple in the late 90s the licensing program was effectively just killed off so that brings us to the mid-2000s, and that’s when Apple announced its switch from the PowerPC processors to Intel’s x86 Platform it said that for the previous several years. It had been secretly building versions of its Mac OS 10 Operating system that ran on the x86 platform and this was a bit of a bombshell to people it Was around the time pretty well rumored that Apple was going to be making that switch to Intel however, what people figured was that transition to Intel would take quite a while that Apple would announce maybe its first few machines and It would be kind of like going through the original OS 10 transition again where things were pretty buggy and didn’t necessarily work all that great right off the bat it would take some time to get there but the fact that Apple had been planning that Intel transition for several years prior and Had actually worked a lot of the bugs out of the Intel version of its operating System really floored people. I remember being very surprised not at the news of moving to Intel but at the fact that Apple had actually basically been doing it for quite a while and the transition to Intel on Apple’s own Hardware was actually Incredibly smooth the machines I came out were very fast very much a better value and the big thing was Apple was able to completely change its entire product lineup PowerPC to Intel in just the span of a little over a year It was actually very quick and it was fairly painless Especially since Apple had written in a softer translation layer to be able to allow PowerPC apps to work natively on Intel hardware at Relatively decent speed but the big thing Behind that transition is that it also not only meant like faster computers for the average Mac user But for those who are technically inclined it presented a really interesting challenge I mean since Mac’s were effectively becoming regular PCs a lot of them wondered well Could OS 10 be run on standard hardware and the answer ended up being yes And thus the Macintosh became a PC and the hackintosh movement was born so it’s been around for over a decade now and The novel team I would say has probably worn off by now so why do people still build hackintosh is I mean I think the original appeal was really just the classic to see if you can do it type of mentality That novelty has worn off. Why are people actually still going to the trouble of building a hackintosh? Well, I’d say it’s largely for the same reason that people bought those Apple clones throughout the years first to get better specifications or control over the hardware Mac’s have continued to become more and more integrated and offer more and more limited hardware choices, especially with at this point the fact that they are pretty much not upgradeable or Expandable if you want to Like in a few years, maybe make your Mac more powerful You pretty much have to get rid of it and buy a new one, of course going to a hackintosh well kind of eliminates some of that because it’s a feature that PC users have been enjoying since the beginning if you want more RAM if you want a bigger hard drive if you want to put In a faster, sir Expansion cards anything like that. Well, the sky’s pretty much the limit and even to some extent for PC laptop users Although the story has been kind of changing for them, too But it’s it’s really that idea of taking control of the hardware and being able to decide exactly What parts and pieces you want in it to best suit your own needs? maybe you have specific demands and requirements that Apple’s current lineup of hardware just doesn’t meet all that Well a great example is the kind of mid Performance mid-price tower PC market Apple hasn’t really offered kind of an every, you know, average everyday just tower that you can plug your own monitor and keyboard and mouse into It’s always been the low end That is the Mac Mini or the high end with the Mac Pro but nothing right down the middle where? People like me could very benefit from it I don’t necessarily need a workstation class computer But I’d like something with a decent amount of performance and some upgrade ability as I want to maybe further with What I’m doing in terms of multimedia content that sort of thing that transition from 1080p to 4k video required a pretty decent bump in processor performance and all that for a lot of people who are into creative work and multimedia content that sort of thing it would very much benefit them and I think a lot of those people are the ones who have gone out and Jumped on this hackintosh bandwagon because Apple otherwise doesn’t sell a computer That suits their needs all that. Well, otherwise, they would have to go into a much more expensive machine the other reason why I think hackintosh is still relatively popular these days is because of price Apple’s machines for a while were actually pretty decently price Compatible with what you could get out of a Windows PC and I’ve done a video about this that everyone loved to give me shit about but There have been specific machines throughout the years that have managed to hit really decent price points That were fairly comparable but that’s been changing over time as some products have simply not been Updated in quite a while or other products have been pursuing an even higher end type of user like the iMac Pro that starts at $5,000 yes you Could say that’s a comparable machine in terms of price to a windows-based workstation But again, it comes back to that hole in the product lineup I think a lot of people who buy an iMac Pro don’t necessarily need an iMac Pro. They simply need something more powerful than The other machines that apple offers So by building your own machine You are able to pick those parts and you can often get a better Price for it overall than if you were to buy a machine actually from Apple So with all that in mind, why hasn’t everyone just gone and built a hackintosh I mean when Apple’s clone Program was official in the mid-90s those clones almost killed Apple because they were so much better Priced than the machines that Apple was putting out themselves well, there’s a few reasons and I think one of the biggest ones is that it can take a lot of effort to build a hackintosh, and it still doesn’t have guaranteed results You see the hackintosh community relies on being able to basically work around limitations that Apple builds into the operating system Apple doesn’t want to make it easy for you to run Mac OS on Hardware that it didn’t sell you now thankfully those limitations have been relatively minor throughout the years and fairly easy to circumvent the hackintosh community is full of very smart and very talented people and they generally figure out ways to work around what limitations there are and Continue to move that platform forward But things like hard drivers have always been a challenge Apple only needs to include drivers in the US for Hardware itself sells and builds into its own computers Sometimes those drivers are reusable with standard PC components like ones that define the platform architecture or chipsets that sort of thing and other times they don’t maybe there’s a Particular piece of hardware you want to use that just will never work because no one ever wrote a driver for it Maybe it’s a fairly esoteric piece of hardware. And if you don’t know how to write drivers yourself. Well, you might be stuck so Some people have managed to kind of hack their way through some of this Modifying drivers or simply swapping out parts for ones that work well enough with the out of box drivers in Some cases some third-party manufacturers have actually gone to the trouble of writing Mac drivers Nvidia is a great example NVIDIA has for quite a while now been offering Mac drivers for its video cards ostensibly it’s to Officially support the people running the old light cheese grater style Mac Pro’s that did have user replaceable video cards in them But I’m pretty sure Nvidia also knows that a lot of people running those drivers are installing them on hackintosh is and not official Apple hardware and I also personally kind of think that Nvidia is maybe a little bit salty at Apple because Apple used to do business with Nvidia and even had some Mac’s based on invidious chipsets and for the past several years Apple has been really leaning heavily on AMD for graphics so maybe the whole driver things a little bit of a middle finger towards Apple but in any event Drivers have always been an issue but there are even sites like Tony Mac x86 and the OS 10 x86 project that will recommend specific parts to give you the best compatibility down to the point of saying like if you buy these Exact makes and models of parts CPU motherboard Ram hard drive all of these things These are you know parts that they have gone through verified will produce a decently running hackintosh with the minimum amount of work and In some cases it can be fairly easy if you’re willing to go down that road but if you want to do something a little bit more out of the norm or a little bit more difficult like Hackintosh a laptop in some cases you are completely on your own But even then if you can get a hackintosh built and running there’s still always some risk not just in building that system but in keeping it running and Updated at any point Apple could release a new software update that just completely bricks your system either intentionally or not, maybe some drivers got updated that limit compatibility with some of the non apple hardware or Maybe Apple just says enough is enough and decides to make some dramatic changes To the operating system that allow it to continue to work on official Apple hardware, but effectively kill off the rest of the community But that does raise another really good question. Why doesn’t Apple just stop hacking toshing? I mean, it’s got that history of knowing that clone computers are bad for its business with the way that it does business Why has Apple continued to tolerate it well in in the past? Apple has actually gone after the hackintosh community, but it’s generally only been when hackintosh azar being sold Famous example is a company called psystar And this is not to be confused with that Gangnam style guy But they were a company that around 2008 started selling hackintosh estate at a web store You could just pick out all the parts you want say I want this to be a hackintosh and they would sell you a complete Machine that you would, you know, take it out of the box plug it in turn on and it would boot into the Mac OS Well Apple of course caught wind of this and took them to court citing a copyright violation and of course Apple won and so psystar went out of business in 2012 and indeed it technically is Illegal to build a hack and even if you don’t plan on selling it Because of specific language in the License Agreement for the Mac OS and also just general concept of copyright infringement Apple you know, if they really wanted to they could go after the sites that provide info about building these machines But why don’t they well, I have a few ideas One is that the community is still relatively small? So it’s maybe not worth apples time Another is that hackintosh builders often go for the latest and greatest hardware when they’re building their machines They want to build something that’s often even better than what Apple offers So it’s quite likely that Apple keeps an eye on all of this not just from the whole legal perspective But I suspect that some of apples engineering groups keep an eye on the hackintosh community Because they want to see what the community is doing where they’re going with parts. And then what? Troubles that community is facing in a way They could be using the information gleaned from the hackintosh community as a bit of like free R&D to help shape its future products But I think the biggest one really is that those who build hackintosh –is or power users especially given the difficulty that there can be in actually building one of these and Those power users are also some of apple’s staunchest supporters They build hackintosh is not as a nephew to Apple But rather because they just love the operating system and don’t really like what Apple’s doing on the hardware side They could much more easily install Windows on their hackintosh Be way easier to do that, but they don’t So if Apple were to go after the hackintosh community They would have a very big and very vocal backlash That would ultimately cost apple quite a bit of bad PR even though it didn’t really impact a whole ton of people it would compound on a lot of the things Apple has been doing that’s been pissing off even those who by actual Apple Mac products now all that said I Do think the future of hakkon toshing is in doubt and I suspect those who are even deeply involved in the hackintosh Community have had this go through the back of their minds as I mentioned in a previous Podcast it’s rumored that Apple is going to be switching from the Intel chip platform 2 a.m to ARM based chips in maybe the next few years I think it’s clear that apples become a bit unhappy with Intel and its rate of progress and Apple has been getting a lot more performance out of its arm-based processors That it’s been using in things like iPhones and iPads over the last few years It seems like it’s able to push that platform along quite a bit faster So it’s generally being accepted that within the next few years Apple is gonna start transitioning Mac’s over from Intel to arm and when that happens well That’s going to be the beginning of the end and ultimately hackintoshing will die off when Apple stops shipping x86 versions of the Mac OS So I guess you could say in a way while Apple has periodically lost this battle it’s been losing the hackintosh battle for 12-ish plus years now ultimately in the coming years it will end up winning the cloned computer war so With all that said I’m curious as to your thoughts. Do you have experience building a hackintosh? Are you using one right now? Have you tried it in the past has it worked out for you, or has it been too big of a challenge? I’ve tried it a little bit here and there throughout the years and sometimes it’s worked really well. Sometimes it hasn’t but ultimately that worry about long-term support and whether My computer will even work the next day after a software update has kept me on actual Apple hardware, but Maybe that’s the same for some of you. Maybe it’s not I’m just curious as to your thoughts So be sure to share them down in the comments below Also if you’re interested in audio only versions of these podcasts I have them available as plain mp3 downloads for patreon supporters You can also get a private RSS feed throw it into the podcast player of your choice and these episodes go live a few days before they show up on YouTube So it’s a great way to help support the channel Anyway, if you like this one, I would appreciate a thumbs up be sure to subscribe if you haven’t already you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at this does not comp and as always Thanks for watching

100 thoughts on “The Hackintosh Movement | TDNC Podcast #116

  1. Hackintosh will NOT die off. Hackintosh will adapt to the ARM architecture, and it will continue. No matter what Mac OS system Apple creates, there will be loopholes. If a Mac can run it, than it is entirely possible that a computer that is very closely designed to the Mac architecture can be built. In my opinion, hackintoshing should be done as a huge middle finger in the face for apple. I will break those copyright laws in order to prove that Apple is not as good as they think they are.

  2. Acorn Lives ! Remember what the letters A R M used to be ? Acorn Risc Machines 🙂 Ha !
    Acorn joined with Apple to make the Examplar range of school products – and that I think got the attention of Microsoft – and Acorn died. Yes, it was a complex profit taking game that Element14 played, but – the chips that sprang from the Acorn computers live on – in mobiles and now – soon – if this chap is right – Apple laptops too. Well, it makes me smile ! I was an Acorn guru…

  3. "This is the end…" – If Apple goes to ARM laptops, so will other companies, so you should still be able to build a Hackintosh.

  4. LattePanda Alpha is reportedly a great Hackintosh.

    Once Apple converts to ARM I predict/expect the Hackintosh will die. Apple is very aware of the Hackintosh community.

    Further, Apple owns the ARM chip(s) design they will be using so it will not be available for sale to third parties. The same is true for the chip in the Raspberry Pi. Exclusive to them only.

    What we don't know is if anyone will try to reverse engineer Intel versions of macOS once the ARM version is released. An open source version of macOS could be possible? We'll see.

  5. It’s an insurmountable difficultly to get T470 trackpoint and WiFi card work and the time is just worth buying a MacBook Pro if you are looking at laptop.

  6. It took me 2 weeks to get the hackintosh to boot without a boot disk, and another 2 weeks to get hardware accelerated video (quartz).

  7. I have been an Apple hater since the beginning, and I'm all for anything that anyone can do to hurt Apple. Apple and Tesla are likely the worst two major companies in the U.S. right now. They both need to go away.

  8. You realize you don’t need to update your Mac when you finally get it working right? Ya with windows machines apps and programs need updates cuz well windows is shit.

    But with a Mac you could easily run the software u first installed and got it working on for years. Then you go about upgrading the software. Why would you waste hrs of time every year upgrading and finicky get with hardware tweaking to get it just right.

    Best option I’ve found for hackintosh.

  9. My long shot prediction. Tim Cook is considering re-booting X-Serves. Once the new Mac Pro is released Apple could shut down this Hackintosh movement real quick. They have been keeping an eye on Hackintosh users. Apple’s Pro Workflow Team is the evidence. But maybe Apple should consider something they had to give up when Jobs came back. Perhaps they should license macOS, but not like the old Power Computing and Motorola days, (you just brought this up as I was typing). Btw, I was working for Apple at this time and was good friends with a lot of Power Computing guys. They were a great company. A lot of ex-Apple guys. Anyway, I’m talking about a “special” licensing program, (not like Windows). Apple could place some limits on certain things. Perhaps Apple licenses a motherboard design that companies could build cheaply or do BTO, and we the consumer could pick the case, RAM, water-cooling, maybe CPU types, etc… I don’t ever see Apple doing a straight up license, unless the new Mac Pro fails miserably, Tim Cook loses interest in the pro market again and fires the Pro Workflow Group (or whatever they’re called). Right now, Cook is having a serious love affair with us Mac power users again. iMac Pro, iPad Pro, Mac Mini and Mac Pro all refreshed within a year of each other? Scandalous Mr. Cook! [EDIT:The one small issue with leaving Intel – no more Xeons. How many Mac users would care? I would for sure. And the Uber pros would too, but…]

  10. ARM-style processors are going to have to beef up if they're going to be used as more than coprocessors for larger machines, or in use as mobile processors.

  11. I grew up in the early 90's, I remember when the web became available to the general public. I was always a PC/Windows fan boy and hated Apple. As I got older and productivity became more important than tinkering I slowly switched to Apple and am now entirely in the eco system. I have an iPhone XS Max, iPad Pro, Macbook Pro, Apple Watch etc. I needed a Pro level desktop and the current Mac Pro is simply not powerful enough for what I need, so I built a Hackintosh. Luckily my history with building PC's made it relatively painless, you need patients and you need understanding of what BIOS settings actually mean. I'd recommend against using tools Multibeast and do a Vanilla install. But, with all of that being said the Hackintosh I have currently blows even the top of line Mac Pro out of the water. I'll be interested to see if/when Apple releases this modular Mac Pro line, I'm not holding my breath.

  12. When Apple is selling you sub par specs(important) for a ton of money(not important), without any chance to get anything good(critical) for years the incentive is hardly novelty, try necessity often for work of designers and video producers at the time. ..and you could run games when not "appling" around. ..and many of those didn't necessarily like macs it was just part of the job description.
    That was specifically relevant for a period of several years back, but it's not without merit today too.
    In short Apple products might be kind a high specs but not really. If you want properly powerful PC it would definitely not be a apple product.<that's a period.

  13. Of course Apple used to use RISC (ARM) (68040 was the last?) and I remember the hue and cry when they went to CISC chips.
    I use hackintosh because I can upgrade it every year ie – new GPU, new CPU etc and keep it good enough for my constantly evolving CAD software.
    Every now and then I go back to windows because my software is good for both platforms, but it's a bit slower and now and then I get a major crash that takes a day or two to recover. Mac OS is just way more reliable, even on a hackintosh. I have an 19 7900 and a radeon Vega. Both are too easy to hack…

  14. $5000 Imac Pro – if you've watched Linux Tech Tips or Rossman's repair channel on iMacs / Macbooks you realize how shitty the machines have gotten. So … basically they are just milking the cult.

  15. I'm currently running an OSX VM, which I understand is a mega no-no in the terms of service.
    But damnit it's so slick. Runs an Nvidia GPU. I'd happily pay for this experience if Apple could find a way to make it work for their business.

  16. It's definitely possible to build an ARM based PC. You have all the Raspie type boards out there at entry level to more performant NUC type boards. It's a pain but still more accessible than non-apple powerpc hardware was back in the day, which would run several thousand dollars. A transition to ARM might actually revitalize interest in hackintosh with people getting macOS working on far cheaper hardware than it currently runs on. What's going to be challenging is getting a battlestation desktop hackintosh on ARM. At least until new boards come out.. which they probably will.

  17. Never bothered, never cared. If some of these people in the Hackintosh community gave a shit about GNU / Linux they would have something open-source, heads and shoulders beyond Apple's offerings and on a platform with better hardware compatibility. We need these people to be developing for Linux and making it possible to have an Apple BSD software abstraction layer for running OS X utilities on open systems.

    The people who are dedicating time to Apple's software offerings are honestly wasting their precious time on what could be spent on a platform they could make better, and provide massive contributions to a community suffering to remain relevant against the onslaught of Apple and Microsoft. Sure, Microsoft has Azure but that's server-side. Google has Android but that is an mobile thing. Chrome OS is a joke. Software offerings for open systems is a joke. We need to quit joking around and get serious about using open solutions for companies to actually give a damn about anything which isn't XUN and NT.

  18. If Apple switches to ARM I think other manufactures will start making ARM laptops as well especially considering that Microsoft is porting over Windows too.

  19. Hackintoshing is what linux used to be. As the months or little bit of years go by the process will get easier and more stable.

  20. Been hackint0shing since the Deadmoo image, it is probably easier now to Hackint0sh than ever, its very easy to do a vanilla setup that works well I run a triple boot myself.

  21. You're right. Since Steve died, Apple has changed focus from making great products at a premium price to making cheaper and cheaper products, while maximizing profits for the sake of profits. I.E. They no longer care about the things Steve cared about. It's quite sad. 😪
    As for Apple moving it’s computer line on to ARM processors, that’s not realistically possible. Microsoft has tried this and the ARM chips just don’t have the power of a CISC based processor. People need to remember that “apps” on a phone or tablet aren’t the same as full scale applications, like MS OFFICE. But I think that Apple should start buying their CPU’s from AMD. They’d get better overall performance using processors that use less electricity and generate less heat. ARM processors may evolve into something more powerful in 15 to 20 yrs, but you can’t run a MacBook Pro, a Mac Mini or an iMac on ARM. It’s just a bunch of talk and not feasible at this point in time.

  22. Built a hackintosh years ago w/ so so success cuz hw support was still unstable. I needed to try out Mac system cuz boss wanted to try out writing an IOS app while feeling iPhones were getting pretty hot. As web app programmer, thought that macs can both develop IOS apps for hot iPhones and develop and run the web apps & programs in Unix platform that most servers still do. Indeed Mac OS is really stable and nice-looking system that has enough professional and consumer apps for use. For a family tied to use Apple mobile devices, there're good benefits of inter-connections b/w Mac OS and devices. So tied up to Apple that I had to buy a 2015 Macbook Pro

  23. I ran a stable hackintosh desktop for several years, primarily because I had a copy of final cut pro 7 that i was using, and i was hugely not a fan of windows 8. My main issue is that any updates would break my install, so I would often have to roll back to a backup image. I think a significant part of me putting up with the whole process was the technical challenge. I used to run linux back when driver support was crap and everything had to be compiled by hand

    I've since stopped using final cut, i don't mind windows 10, and I just don't have time to fix my OS every week, so now I just run a regular PC.

  24. Yeah, but are they reliable? I want to do live Ableton work using Mac OS, but would like a cheaper alternative. But I'm affraid I'll run into software issues in the middle of a show and won't know how to fix them.

  25. I wonder how many are linux users that want to tinker with an Apple OS because the OS interface is pretty slick. Alternatively, you can install elementaryOS and get a comparable (but definitely not the same) experience allowing you to put all cost into hardware. (Short whatever you feel like donating to the eOS team. They've earned it.)

  26. macOS is going to ARM – how do I know? Remember the launch of iOS? Mac OS X running on handheld hardware. Apple ran parallel development for the Intel transition, the iPhone and iPad is the beginning of an ARM transition. The moment all Macs move to ARM is the moment the Mac dies. No one is paying for RISC desktops. That was the future in the 1990s for workstation hardware and, guess what? What's powering your PC at the moment? x86/AMD64.

  27. I have tried to make a hackingtosh, but just can’t get it done. I hate the new mac’s they seem cheap and Tim seems to be very happy with making crap. The p.c I made would have cost at least $5000 from apple. I love the Mac OS and hate windows

  28. I hackintoshed my ThinkPad T540p. One major hurdle was getting a compatible wifi card (in my case the BCM94352Z) past the BIOS whitelist, which required me entirely disassembling it and flashing a modded BIOS. The software part was easy thanks to r/hackintosh & tonymacx86's guides and tools. Sleep didn't work, but everything else worked fine.

    I did it because I wanted to try macOS. Never having bought a Mac before, I decided to use it as my daily driver for a week. It wasn't amazing, and I went back to Windows, but I still keep it available for use with the Creative Cloud suite (which is much nicer on macOS, in my opinion).

  29. I've found it interesting to look at the problem from the other end. Apple makes some pretty robust hardware. I have a 2006 17" MacBook Pro that runs Ubuntu really well, there's utility in the old Mac machines long after they are no longer supported by their native OS. My guess is that when current Intel Macs can no longer get an OS update (once Apple is all ARM) then the machines will still make great Linux machines, and Windows machines too. The trick will be to make sure you keep a USB drive with a full install of the last and latest bootcamp supporting MacOS so that you can get Apple Windows drivers for the hardware under Bootcamp.

  30. I went through the same experience. I built a very powerful video editing PC with MacOS. It ran great, then an update would break it. I would rebuild and go through the same a few months later. I gave up. So now, I have a powerful PC, with Window$ sitting in a corner of my office, collecting dust. I am still happy with my Apple hardware, iPhone, MacBookPro, iPad Pro, iMac Pro. It is unfortunate that I was not very successful at Hackintoshing. However, I do like the quality and feel of Apple hardware.

  31. Apple can't do much about it. If it goes to court they will likely have to defend the legal fiction that they have a say in the use and maintenance of their machines after sale.
    I built a Hackintosh, and it worked fine. I loved its GUI, but had no software for it, and there was no advantage in terms of performance or utility.

  32. I and many researchers were ironically the opposite for many years after the x86 switch, until the emoji bar macbook pro. We used to buy a macbook pro, and install linux; they had superb hardware and they were easy and cheap to repair/upgrade. We still have a stack of old 17 in workstation class macbooks, RIP. Cool and interesting history here, thanks.

  33. Why would you take the worst part of apple (the software) and remove the least bad part (the hardware) ? No, really. Actually asking.

  34. Excellent analysis. Yes. Better hardware control and expandability is why most people build hackintoshes for professional use.

  35. Apple hardware is mostly a joke right now
    Specially their keyboards. and their batteries are glued in with like what they use in buildings to attach windows apparently….
    why would they do that other than to make people pay more? And they call themselves "environmentally friendly"
    their keyboard even the 3rd gen breaks and costs like 800$ to repair without the program.

    the t2 chip also makes it really hard for third parties to repair the laptop too.

    I hate windows a lot though and prefer macOs by a ton. there's airdrop handoff etc and I like Unix based OSes but Ubuntu is not stable and compatible enough as my main OS. like the battery life isn't good etc

  36. Apple don,t care about the computer market .they are very happy selling a ipad pro and top spec iphone thats were the money is for Apple … its the Apple sheep that needs to upgrade ever 24 mouths with Apple care …NOT with a small market share of desk top type PCs

  37. personally I love apple OS it's just nicer than windows in my opinion my hardware in total cost around £2100 and for that price apple just do not sell something that is going to be sufficient for how I use my computer for acceptable performance i'd need to hand over £3,899 to apple and frankly I can't afford to spend that much!
    and the software updating you mentioned it's not really a big deal just have a drive with your OS and apps ONLY and back it up before you update so you can roll back if you need to 🙂
    and for anyone that is thinking of building a hackintosh just do your research diligently and i'd highly recommend an AMD gpu my Nvidia card has caused me a few small issues that from what I've learned would have been avoided with amd 🙂

  38. There are pretty much zero reasons to run mac. Just look at their music program. It's insane. Apple is simply fanboy brand loyalty. In no way is apple superior to the alternative. Simply liking the layout isnt enough. Graphic designers for years have swung from apples nuts but unfortunately apples time has come and gone. If they dont realize it and go back to their roots of innovation and simplicity they will be doomed and there is no more cartoon founders like jobs to save them. Woz knew these things way back in the day and left. Bring him back and it would maybe save it

  39. Ha, I never made the connection between my Hackintoshing and the fact that my second computer was a Laser128 (at the time it was more powerful than a IIc and only cost $400 when the IIc was $2500 … oh and my first computer was a Commodore Vic20). Anyway, my first Hackintosh was built on a Dell Mini 10, because I wanted a tiny, portable Mac. Since then I've run a couple of other Hackintosh machines, but to be brutally honest I can't decide which I hate more, Apple or Microsoft. Since I need Adobe products to pay my bills and put food in my belly I'm forced to run one or the other, but that will probably come to an end (since Apple is colluding with Adobe to force everyone into software-as-a-service and I haven't updated/upgraded my Mac in ages because it'll end up killing Creative Suite 6 and Windows 10 is basically Creative Cloud as an OS so I'll never use that). All my old surviving Hackintosh machines are now running Linux and as WINE gets better, I'll be able to get Windows versions of Adobe software running on those easier than keeping Mac versions running on either Apple equipment or other Hackintoshes.

    As for the future of Macs, I expect when they make the move away from Intel to ARM that they'll also dump OSX and force Mac users into some sort of Desktop iOS … which is really going to suck.

  40. I don't think much will change if apple goes from x86 to arm, the community will still going to do their usuall stuff like disassemble, debuging, decompile etc. except it will be in the arm architecture. arm has evolved a lot but in terms of performance, they are a very long way from achieving x86 like speeds and the architecture was build from the ground up to be power effecient, a imac or macpro doesnot need to be low power, just high speed. of course apple can license an arm arch and build a cpu with new/bigger/different instruction set, but people are still going to probe it and slowly find out the differences. that's what got the emulation movement start.

  41. "the specif license in the license agreement" does not apply to consumers, as a consumer I can not read the agreement when I purchase the product online from an retailer. And as a consumer I do not have a (direct) contract with apple or microsoft. Breaking the seal – try proving that I did that – does not make a bonding contract nor clicking a funny checkbox (The retailer will not accept the opened product. Or can I send the opened software to Microsoft/Apple when I saw the dialog?)

  42. Very good and informative video, after using Hackintoshs for last 5 years I got to say that OS X/macOS is more stable than Windows on all my computers I built (the trick is to choose the right components AND STAY AWAY FROM NVIDIA CARDS), its better to run Intel HD than Nvidia because Apple supports it, of course the perfect Hackintosh would be with an AMD card.
    I love it and I'm getting used to Apple ecosystem much better with Hackintosh because without it I would never think of having an Apple computer or operation system. So this can be a plus for Apple not against, and maybe I said (maybe) they change their direction more toward the consumer by lowering prices, giving more hardware upgrade possibility and forget about taking 100% control of our computers then I would consider to buy a Mac from Apple, why not.

  43. EVERYTHING you just said, from the history of the Hackintosh/clone movement, to how the Hackintosh community currently feels about Apple is SPOT. FREAKING. ON.

  44. One thing that should be considered is that macOS hasn't been Apple's bread and butter for a good decade now, therefore, they aren't as concerned over this sort of conduct anymore.

  45. Apple tolerates hackintosh because many hackintosh users own Macs, iPhones, Apple watches, etc. They also buy apps on the app store. Apple are making money off of hackintosh. They also tolerate hackintosh because they don't offer mid-range. Offering more mid-range computers would hurt their image brand of being over the top. Stopping hackintosh would hurt their image. It would call attention to it meaning it would throw it into the spotlight. Hackers would pop up and obliterate Apple in every way imaginable. It would probably piss off an entire portion of their paying customers that do it for just a hobby. Nobody is getting hurt by this. It's causing no financial loss. There's always the chance Apple could lose in court and thus lose legal control over their own ip. Judges have the ability to side with the vocal majority and if Apple lost in court, it would set a president that not only is it okay to do, it's legally supported. And it wouldn't stop at Macs, they could lose control over iOS as well. It's a bear best left unpoked.

  46. If you are a content creator, a designer, a developer and you can't afford a real Mac you should question your skills. Please refrain to bother with the usual 'overpriced' argument, which is not even a truth.
    It's like calling a BMW overpriced because it's just a vehicle with 4 wheels.
    The hackintosh it's the cry of the poor. Use Windows, use Linux or whatever else at least it will not make you look like a loser.

  47. All great points, but I think one you might have missed is:
    – Hackintosh are taking market away from a Redmond cie (albeit small)
    Case in point, me a forever Windows user, now preferring the SW and stability of the Mac

  48. I don't see why Hackintoshing couldn't continue with arm based architecture unless Apple produces its own processor that cannot be bought anywhere…

  49. Can you take the time to memorize your presentation, it is distracting watching you read from a screen of screen. It would be better if you glanced at notes and speak about it, but this is just reading straight of a screen.

  50. If only the Hackintosh crowd were really honest about the results.

    Yes you can build more powerful at a better price and it will be upgradeable, but you will do the work, you will take the risks and when it doesn't work the way you want, YOU are going to have to put up with the nagging problems and wasted time.

    There are people out there who are honest about the downside, but are shouted down by the Hackintoshers who are hardware obsessed, and not so picky about the final result or quality. For those people it is all about price (not accounting for all the real costs) probably because like PC Users it is all about Gaming.

    Hackintoshers are like Linux evangelists. They are full time prosletizers trying to get everyone else to do what they have done so they can justify their (sometimes) poor life decisions.

  51. I was totally pissed off with Apple in the '90s and I bought one of the Mac clones.

    Not one of my smarter moves. It had zero resale value, didn't last all that long and was really rough compared with real Macs. The comapny folded and I ended up with zero support, and it was not that much cheaper than a Mac. An expensive experiment.

  52. I just built a PC to eventually make into a Hackintosh because of that midrange hole in the product line. One reason I use Macs is because they just work and they get it done without a headache (most of the time), and I do worry that some update will derail it. But for now, I'm playing it by ear and enjoying my extra power.

  53. MacOS is way better than windows. Unfortunately nowadays it would be stupid to buy a preassembled overpriced computer from apple. I wish they would just sell their operating system by itself. I surely would buy it.

  54. Apple's overpriced and under spec machines is a good reason to NEVER buy Apple products in the first place. I like the upgrades I can do on any windows machine.

  55. I agree, I think that Hackintoshing is good for Apple. People start using or continue to use macOS. After using macOS for a while, it's quiet a hassle to switch back to other eco systems if you want to.
    Real hackintoshers know. It's damn hard to find the sweet spot and when you have found it, you ain't going back easily.

    Now, I'm not saying that it's difficult to switch from OS or move your files from one system to another. What I'm trying to say is that people are also habbit creatures. Once everything is working on a hackintosh/linux distro/windows, people won't just switch again their stuff. You did switch for a reason right?

    So, I think if you made up your mind and are going to switch to macOS, then Apple should welcome you. Even if it's on a hackintosh. Because at the end, you are going to be sucked into their world.

    Just for reference:
    I mainly use Linux, but I might have Hackintoshed my laptop for easy integration of native apps with iCloud.

    Completely "Microsoft free" since: 15-03-2019

  56. Since I last posted I ended up fresh installing macOS 10.14.4 Mojave due to me formatting its drive by mistake instead of my Windows drive in this machine (both SSDs), but it's fine since I wanted to reinstall both fresh anyway. My Windows installation's boot sector got screwed up. I was trying to fix it before resorting to formatting and starting over, but I backed up my data and reinstalled.

    I've been hackintoshing on and off since 2009 on my P55 based Intel Core i5 750 2.66 GHz custom build, of which was my first dabble in PC building . That was fun. I think I was using Mac OS X 10.5.x Leopard at that point? I think I had also attempted to get Mac OS X 10.6.x Snow Leopard running as well before I upgraded to the LGA 1156 platform (can't remember the chipset atm) with an i5 2500k, and that machine ran 10.6-10.9 before I upgraded the CPU to an i7 3770k, of which I'm running now. I love hackintoshing, but I also own a 2015 mostly max spec'd 15" Retina MacBook Pro. It's only slightly more powerful than this Hackintosh desktop, but only due to the graphics card in here (AMD Radeon RX 480 4GB vs the MBP's mobile AMD Radeon R9 M370X chip with 2 GB RAM). Just getting Mojave installed fresh on here was a pain in the <ahem> because it refused to boot with my desired boot drive installed (a 250 GB mSATA SSD) until I figured it all out. So, when Colin says that Hackintoshing and maintaining such a system isn't easy, he's 100% right. At this point I know what I'm doing to most extents, but I still run into roadblocks that halt me for a day or so before I have the mental energy to go start and experiment again.

    Once again Colin, great video. I love my Hackintosh. I had been running Windows for my everyday stuff, and while I can get around a Windows system just fine, I much prefer macOS, as it's what I grew up with, and it's what I'm most comfortable using. I'm not a hardcore gamer, so not being in a Windows environment all the time isn't all that bad. I do game a little, and when I want to game I simply reboot to Windows 10, and BOOM… full PC master race status… Anyway, great video, and keep up the good work!!

  57. Here's my take on the future of hackintosh. First, yes you are very right about the bad PR of Apple trying to kill it as well as the development value of watching a tiny sliver of the market come up with ideas. Apple developers themselves I think have been and are more devoted to the OS than the hardware. Apple's computer business is very tiny now in their product line. They see desktops shrinking pretty much to professional use only and I wouldn't be too surprised if Apple got completely out of computer business within a decade or so.

    But in the meantime remember that they still have a large group of folks that invested small fortunes in laptops and desktops and are still buying them. It would be foolish of Apple to pull the rug out from under all these non ARM CPU owners. They must keep Mac OS usable by these machines for at least 7 to 10 years after the last non ARM CPU computer is sold. If not there would be hell to pay in PR and sales since many of these users are also owners and buyers of their pads and phones. It would be even bigger than the move from PowerPC to OSX.

    On the tails of this support for at least the next decade Hackintosh should survive. A decade of course is an eon in computer time so its not too practical to worry about where things will be then when its altogether possible that even keyboards will be a thing of the past.

  58. So right! Build my first Hackintosh Laptop, as I didn't have the money to get a real Mac. Have 5 Macs now and no Hackintosh anymore. My Hackintosh worked nice with ALL hardware working, but NOTHING beats a Macbooks trackpad quality. Apple is still great!

  59. We do it because we need it. If Apple would bring back the tower PC, even in mitx and matx form factors that we could upgrade as time goes on, we would buy them. The Mac mini, and iMacs are not for performance seeking individuals. Now I have a Hackintosh, but I still buy Macs. I have 2 Mac Minis (2012 and a 2018) and a iMac from 2014. My Hackintosh is what I use for gaming and other intense programs like FCP. Office apps and the like work fine on the iMac (Wife uses) and my Minis.

  60. People go through the trouble of making an hackintosh for 2 reasons:

    1. They want to use Mac OS.
    2. They want to design their own hardware for their needs – saving some money in the process.

  61. Because the clones of the 90's were only licensed for OS 7, one of the main purposes of the release of Mac OS 8 was to kill off the clone market. Apple then put the coup de gras to the clone market by completely buying Power Computing's Mac clone business for $100Million–which shows just how big the Mac clone business had become.

  62. and i have been doing hackintosh since osx tiger. ehehehehe… wheres iatkos, kaliway and the rest? 🙂

  63. the more expensive apple makes their macs the more demand for a hackintosh. all we want is the software not the old harware apple uses at a premium price

  64. I have my own thoughts on why they don’t just kill hackintosh, for example, while using hackintoshes, we are still buying Apple licensed products, like Magic Mouse and Keyboard, or apps from the App Store, or media content from iTunes Store, so, after all, even though the community isn’t that big due to the difficulty in which building a hackintosh implies, we still mean some relative amount of revenue.

  65. – Tries to justify Apple's high prices by 'comparing equivalent products'.
    – Explains why Mac clones were bad for Apple and still questions his own explanation.

  66. I agree with you to 100%, that Apple is crazy about all the hacintosh out there including my self.

    But if we looking thru the history apple is making the same misstake agin like with the Clone Macintosh in the 90s.

    But the main question is the same apple making quality worse computer, but with much higher price tag. The normal consumer are not willing to pay this extreme price anymore.

    A good exempel is the New Mac Pro that is already outdated even before is hit the market. The big mistake with iMac Pro Vs iMac the same history when normal iMac is faster then iMac Pro!!

    We can see that the computing devision revenue is going down after serval years going up.

    So Apple is hunting the mackintosh grupp to try to get them buy the apple hardware så apple can get better revenue. Its going to fail because of 2 reason. A ) for the new 10-20 years desktop computing will be extreme small group (gamers will still use PC and not Mac for gaming) (Video/Photo) the rest of the computer group that don’t need super computing power will have something like Surface Pro / iPad Pro with keyboard as there main daly driver. The general computer use is going toward iPad/surface way because the way people use there computers is complete different today and will definitive be different in 10-20 years from now.

    B) Look at Apple that very effective killing there Mac Pro lineup (and iMacPro and Mac Mini) with extreme price tag. I think apple is well aware about it. Sec if you look iPad Pro is faster then most of apple entry level laptops .. And final Apple don’t want to be Lika Dell/HP.

    But I think apple is slowly moving towards Laptop/iPad/Surface produkt because people don’t buy desktop computer anymore. This both at Apple and the Pc world. Today the laptop/iPad/surface sell way more then desktop Computers (look at Dell.)

    I think Apple need to license there OS X and the time and consumers will force apple to do that and that computer division att apple is get smaller and smaller year by year. I think Apple in the end will became like Microsoft with software and different consumer and enterprise services and not hardware. We can see it today from Apple revenue is most from iPhone/iPad and different services not selling computers.

    And yes I do have a Hackintosh with Intel 9900K and 64 GB 3200 Ram, Gigabyte AMD RX 580 AORUS 8GB, with Gigabyte Designare motherboard and samsung M2 2TB Eve plus disk.

    And the installation just works almost out of the box. Just need to copy the boot loader and it working super good ink updating to Mojave 10.14.6 from 10.14.5

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