Phil In The Blanks #30 – Susan Constantine

Phil In The Blanks #30 – Susan Constantine


People have just heard me introduce you, you are the best of the best at this, but in your own words tell people, what you do. I’m a body language expert and what I do, is I analyze human behavior. So I’m watching different gestures, and decoding those meanings and reading your facial expressions of emotions and try to understand, what you might be thinking or feeling, and then combining that with your words. What are you saying? What does decoding those words and coming up with what does that actually mean behind those words? So it’s kind of all encompassing. Well, let’s talk about how people can use that every day, ’cause parents have kids, wives have husbands, husbands have wives, people have bosses, they have co-workers, and what I like to do, is give people information where, if they listen to us, they listen to you and me here, then they have an edge, that other people don’t have. Every book I’ve written, every show I do, every talk I give, I like people to walk away where they have an edge that the dummies, who weren’t there, don’t have. So I want people to have an edge by giving them tools, that they didn’t have before they listened to us talk. Let’s give ’em some tools and things, that they can use in their everyday life. People always say that 7% of all communication is non-verbal. That’s true at the hello level, but of course, that goes down a lot as you get more data with words and everything. Now the words start to have more power, but still non-verbals are a huge part of communication, right? Yes, they are, because reading non-verbal cues is nothing more than your emotions being revealed through your non-verbal movements. So whatever you’re thinking and processing is going to be exhibited through your non-verbal cues, non-verbal movements. People used to ask me, when I was at courtroom sciences, can I really read a jury and what they’re thinking or feeling at a particular time, and I was like, of course, I mean it’s like they’re screaming from the jury box. If you nothing to do but sit there all day, and watch these people and how they respond, when the plaintiff’s lawyer gets up, how they respond when the defendant’s lawyer gets up, when a certain witness is on the stand, and you really read them. First you get a baseline, then you see how they depart from that baseline from different people, it’s astounding how much information they give you, and then you debrief them after the trial, and you find out you were right or wrong, and they truly are screaming at you non-verbally from the jury box, so it is true. It is true and the one thing you mentioned, I’m totally in sync with that, because I also am a trial consultant and I watch the juries, and also, what’s important is, in everyday life, is that people are giving these cues off, and then people are not picking them up, and they’re making decisions based on just what they’re saying and they’re not picking up on those little nuances, that gave you such valuable information, and the word, you find out, that they’re in opposition to what their body language was saying. So, body language, in my opinion, is key to communication. Why do you think some people just don’t read the room? People that are maybe talking at dinner, or going to a party or something, you see ’em talking, and they just don’t read the room. People are rolling their eyes, or looking for the bathroom, this is like, how do I get away from this boring son of a (beep), and they don’t get it, seriously, how do people not read the room? Yeah, in fact I was having a conversation with a gentlemen that was just in there. We were talking about most people don’t realize, is that communication is a lot like bowling a ball back and forth, playing tennis, which is your favorite sport. So communication goes back and forth, and back and forth, and then all you’re doing is listening to this boring person and not picking up, that their eyes are rolling back in their head, and it’s because they’re thinking about something else. They’re not tuned in and you know what I find is, that especially with social media today, that they’re not focused on face-to-face communication. They’re down like this all the time, so– We’re getting lazy at it, right? Yes, we’re getting very lazy at it. If you could tell somebody how to read the room, it should be obvious if people are loosing their audience. My personal hill, by the way, is a cocktail party. I would rather get a root canal than go to a cocktail party. Seriously, because making small-talk, I absolutely hate it for several reasons. Number one, I do not give a (beep), what they’re talking about and I know, they don’t give a (beep) what I’m thinking about or talking about. I’m boring, I don’t know why anybody would care about the weather, I don’t care whether it’s snowing or not, and that’s terrible for me and I know, that makes me a terrible conversationalist, I just know it does, but some people will get in a conversation, and they will stand there and there’ll be six people in it, circle, and one person will do 90% of the talking, and not read, that these other people are looking at their shoes, looking at the door, looking at their drinks, looking at their watch. People will actually be looking at their watch, and people don’t pick up on that, why is that? Are they that narcissistic? Yeah, that’s what exactly what it is, and there’s also people, they’re just attention seekers, right? So there’re types of personalities, that just, they feed off from all that excitement. All the attention’s gotta be on me, listen to me, ’cause I’m so self-important, I have so many important things to say, and then everybody should listen, and they’re not noticing, that when people are standing around in a circle, that their angles of their body are already faced towards (laughs) the exit sign, and they wanna go out the door, right? And their faces become very flat or they’ve got that very phony, artificial smile, that they’re trying to be cordial and shaking their head, yet they’re looking around them to trying to figure out a way to exit out. What do you think are the minimal encouragers, that people should look for to tell, whether somebody is really interested in what they’re talking about? If somebody is really interested, in what they’re talking about, they’re leaning forward, they have their head tilted, and they’re bobbing their head, two or three times, like yes, I hear you, and they’re making really good, direct eye contact. Not a stare, but you find that when people are really interested, they’re leaning in, they’re tilting their head, they’re in this active listening position. Their body language is tilted forward. So they’re moving in towards your proximus, into your space because they want more. If they’re leaning back or to the side, they’re not. If they lean to the side, they may be analyzing. If they’re leaning back, they’re completely disinterested, and you might, if notice the same thing, when they’re in jury selection, right? People there kind of leaning back and they’re analyzing. They’re just trying to figure out, whatever is going on. If they’re leaning back, you’ve completely lost ’em. So, facial expressions we know, that movements within their facial expression, are universal compared to millions of other faces across the entire world. Now, when talking about body language, it’s not multi-cultural, it’s cultural. So that lean in could be someone that within that culture, that’s considered being their norm and certain parts of the country and Asian countries, they’re more close in proxemics, others are further away. Looking at someone in the eye would offend a certain culture, certain gestures also are very off-putting. Let me see, what you think about this. You’ve done this because you do jury work, but when I prepare witnesses, I always try to teach a witness there’s, and I don’t have the research in my head anymore, maybe you do, and if you do, maybe you’ll send them to me, but I always quoted the research, that as sad as it is, we tend to like people that like us, and that’s common sense, right? We like people, that like us. We don’t like people, that reject us. We like people, that accept us, because our number one need in life is acceptance, our number one fear is rejection. So we like people, that like us, and we believe people we like. If we like somebody, we give them the benefit of the doubt. We want to believe them. So, we believe people, that we like, and we like people, that like us. So that follows, that we believe people, that like us. Now that means, (laughs) hang on, there’s another dot to this, that means, if we’re a good audience, we’re gonna be believed. The best example I’ve seen of this is I represented Oprah in the mad cow case up in Amarillo, and the first time we did a mock trial with her, we were at my courtroom in Dallas, and we have 50 jurors in the box, and she comes in and takes the witness stand. Now of course you got 50 people there and Oprah walks in. And they don’t know what it’s about, when they get there, because we don’t tell them ahead of time. We’ve pre-screened them, they signed NDAs and everything in there, and Oprah walks in and they’re like, holy good, here’s Oprah, and it’s about her being sued for billions of dollars. She’s pissed off. I mean, she doesn’t like being sued, she doesn’t like being there, she doesn’t like having to go through it. This is not the Oprah they’ve seen on TV. This isn’t the charming Oprah, this isn’t the, hey everybody, you get a car, you get a car, you get a car. She is pissed off. She’s sitting there, she’s glared at these people. So afterwards I’m debriefing the jury. They go deliberate, we have six deliberation rooms, all on close circuit television, all feeding to a control room and to a client viewing room. She’s watching these deliberations and it’s not going well. Then I go in and debrief the 50 jurors, and I come to, okay, tell me about Oprah. How did she impact you as a witness? They’re like, oh my god, horrible, I felt terrible about it, only time it’s ever happened. I’ve got a full-size federal courtroom there, double doors at the end burst open and she comes running in, crying, and she says, “It’s not true, it’s not true, “I’m not a (beep), I’m not, it’s not true, it’s not true. “Why are you saying that?” One of the jurors said, “Oprah, why are you glaring at us? “We didn’t sue you, it wasn’t us, why are you mad at us? “We didn’t sue you.” And she goes, oh my gosh. (Susan laughs) She had a light bulb moment, “I’m taking it out on you guys. “You’re exactly right.” Things turned in that moment. We believe people, that like us, and from that moment on she got, I’ve got to come in, face the jury, make eye contact with them when they look at me, acknowledge them, bond with them, and from that moment forward, she was the best witness I ever had in 15 years. And when she went to actual trial, slayed them. Put her on the stand, she was articulate, effective, credible, powerful, she owned that jury, because she bonded with them, made eye contact, gave minimal encouragers, did all of those things. She was a great audience to their non-verbals. She acknowledged them, made them feel important. You can really affect, how you come across by how you engage with people, right? You can and the thing is, is that what happens, is that we’re sending messages. So there’s a sending and receiving and messages going back and forth, and people, even the untrained person is trying to decode, what you’re actually saying through your non-verbals, and they’re also, what they’re doing is they’re watching those non-verbals, and they’re also connecting it to someone, that they may remember, that looked like that. Yeah, that’s a good point, right? It is, and so they start to project like that women’s voice reminds me of my ex-wife, I don’t like her, and they automatically take them as not likable, but likeability is really important, as you know, like even with attorneys. I mean, attorneys can shift how jurors feel about their client just based on their own presentation of themselves, their facial expressions, how they look at the jury, the tone, that they use, their facial expressions, their grimaces. All of that plays into how people perceive you, and you’re right, people are gonna judge you from the minute they set eyes on you and it’s gonna be very hard for them to be able to walk away from that and think differently, but you have to prove it to ’em, that you’re different. When I’m training people in my courses, is that even with mediators and attorneys and say, your outcome of that verdict is a direct reflection of how well you communicate with other people. So if you’ve got that grimace look on, even that concentration can look like I’m menace, or someone is angry, and it could be concentration. People might misread that, because the average person doesn’t know how to actually decode body language accurately, they’re just labeling those gestures to something they’re familiar with. For example one of the things I ask people is like, the very beginning of my training classes, is how many of you feel like they’re really good at like reading a liar or reading people? And they’re raise, oh, I’m really good. I said, well, the research has found, that the reason why you’re able to pick up those clues is because you’re a pretty good liar yourself (laughs). Exactly.
You can pick up on things, that you’ve actually used in the past and that’s why, you can see it in other people and then recognize it. Right, if we’re telling people how to connect and bond, you said eye contact and we’re not talking about the 100 yard stare, we’re talking about–
Right, the creepy one. Yeah, you’re talking about relaxed but consistent eye contact, leaning in, nodding along and giving them minimal encouragers, you become a good audience, and that makes you bond. That helps people feel comfortable with you.
It does. They feel acceptance, so they’re gonna like you, and what I’m saying is they like you, they’re gonna believe you. That is absolutely true, they will believe you, because people trust people that they like. That’s just a natural reaction. When you think about it in sales, and they mention the person you bought the car from and say, “Hey, go down there, go see my buddy. “He’s really a great guy, I really like him.” Well, what they’re really saying is, that he gave me a good deal, but the connection, that I had with them makes me feel like I wanna trust them. There’s also danger in that too from the opposite, because people that are perpetrators, that really hone in on people to take advantage of them, bank on that. So they know that those charming techniques, those rapport building skills, that they’ve learned in classes they come to like myself, I mean my classes that they come to, that I teach, that by using those techniques, that I’ve trained, they can actually use it in a negative way too. Yeah, because I’ve always said, I think, you can trust people or at least my formula is, I trust people as much as I trust myself to be able to deal with whatever they do. You don’t have to be perfect. If I trust myself enough to deal with your flaws and fallacies, then I can trust you. If I’m so fragile, that you have to be perfect, then I can’t trust you very much, but if I trust myself to like, you don’t have to be perfect, you make a mistake, you say something, that maybe hurts my feelings or you make a mistake with whatever, if I trust myself enough to be resilient, to come back from that, to filter out something, that’s said wrong or even misrepresented, then I don’t have to go through life with sweaty palms. If I trust myself to be discerning enough, then I don’t have to go through life scared. You gotta trust yourself first, then you don’t have to be so worried about what somebody else does. Yeah, that’s very true, I mean even, I think about that’s important for even our kids to know, right? Our teenagers to be able to say, hey I want them trust in themselves and not try to become, we talked about this earlier today in conversation and said often times, what people do, even in business, they act out, what they think, that their boss may want them to be like. So become more assertive, be more powerful, be more commanding and then again, off of their natural gifts, right? They get outside their own gifts and talents, and they now become another person’s identity. So you have to trust who you are, embrace who you are, embrace your own natural gifts and I hate the word so much as authentic, but just be okay with who you are and accept and when you get to that place, then your non-verbals will fall in place. If you’re feeling confident within yourself, your non-verbals will be confident. If you’re feeling shy and introverted, your non-verbals will look shy and introverted. So it’s all here first, and psychologically, what you think and feel is gonna be projected outside. Yeah, I always talked about as being congruent. If all your non-verbals are congruent with what you’re saying, then it’s just smooth. People read you right, they just seem like, she just seems real to me, because everything she says just clicks with everything she seems to be. I mean this all clicks, the way she presents, everything just seems to go and I think, if you’re around somebody, that’s not congruent, it’s just like music, that’s off beat. It just doesn’t hit your ear right. Exactly, and things that not fitting right. When you’re around somebody, going, it’s just something’s not fitting and that’s really should be looking at anything from across the board. Things that don’t fit together well, there’s a reason for it. If there’s discord or disconnectors, because there is a disconnect. I always counseled the lawyers I worked with, and I had the privilege of working with some great council, we were gonna do two things. One was we’re gonna outfair the other side, like in terms of the jury and how they looked at us, we wanted them to perceive us as being more fair than the other side. We didn’t wanna be objecting all the time. We didn’t wanna be trying to keep stuff out all the time, we might do that, we were gonna do that outside, past the jury, but in front of the jury we wanted to seem like we were being more fair than the other side, more fair than the judge, we’re just gonna outfair the other side and I’ve always found, if you can get in partnership with your boss, your co-worker, the jury or whatever, if you can get them to be your partner in your objective, they’re a lot less likely to criticize it. I used to work with physicians and we would talk to them about how to cut down on physician complaints, malpractice claims and all, and my advice to them was always, get your patient to take ownership in the treatment plan, because if they own it, they’re not gonna criticize themselves. So instead of, here’s my treatment plan for you, it’s like, let’s sit down and work out a treatment plan. What do you think, here’s what I think from medical side. You know your life, your style, let’s work out a treatment plan and when they both own the treatment plan, complaints and malpractice cases went to almost zero. Yeah, I can see that, because when you get people on board with you to help them to make the decisions, and you make those decisions together, then people bind to it, because they have taken ownership in it and then when they take ownership in it, they feel like it’s themselves and therefore, you’re gonna get them–
That they want you to succeed, so we would tell juries, okay, together we’re gonna solve this puzzle. Together we’re gonna figure this out and at the end it’s like, we’ve worked hard for the last six weeks, and I think we’ve solved the puzzle, and here’s what we’ve come up with. And I love it when you’re saying together or us or we. When we start using these types of word, it brings people together. When you start using those first singular pronouns, I, me and my, then we isolate people. So if we wanna include people, which is great, because I’m also a mediator, and I love watching the different parties negotiate back and forth, and it’s really interesting to watch the dynamics between them, when I know for a fact, that they’re not gonna, this is not gonna close. We are not gonna come to an agreement, just because there’s such a discord between the parties. What do you think about confirmation bias, and running up against somebody, that seems to be deeply entrenched? Do they communicate that non-verbally, can you read that, when you’re just hitting a brick wall? I’m talking about people that have a belief, and now they have a filter, where they only see information, that confirms, what they already believe, and are completely blind to anything, that would challenge that, disprove that or move their position. They are tunnel visioned to the exclusion of anything, that would broaden their perspective. Yeah and it’s very sad, because those are the type of people that just don’t roll, right? They only see just what’s in front of them and that’s it, and also I think that has a lot to do with fear. People don’t want to accept, what would stretch and help them to grow. So if they’re not gonna take on a different way of thinking, then I’m kind of safe where I’m at. What I love is learning outside of what I already know. It helps me to kind of branch out my way of thinking, but I know what you’re talking about, because I’m gonna tell you a story, is I’ve become very close friends with two of the Pulse nightclub survivors in Orlando. They’re both gentleman who lived a lifestyle they weren’t proud of in a lot of ways. Drugs and alcohol, promiscuous lifestyle. One of them ended up getting AIDS. Through that experience transformed their lives, and they started a new journey in their lives. So now they are the former, the LGBT community now have become Christians, that have formed these groups of followers, that have come out of the this isn’t gonna work for me, and what’s happened, is the other group is saying, oh, no, no, that’s not good, you must be haters, you’re haters of us, because you now have left our group. They’re going, no, I just changed my life, this is what I wanted, has nothing to do with conversion therapy or anything, and people wanna link in. So then become haters because it’s against what makes them feel good, but knowing them personally, I know their walk and the persecution they’ve gone through. So we persecute people because we don’t take the time to really understand them. I mean you’re a psychologist, Doctor Phil, and I’m sure you see a lot of this all the time and it’s really sad to me to see where we have formed opinions about things, we can’t go outside of what’s safe. Look on Facebook, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to bump people off my Facebook, because if they’re a democrat or republican, right? Unless you go with their ways and their beliefs, forget it, they’re just blasting you, because there’s a very tunnel vision, but also I think, that there’s pride and ego and also fear in there. I think it is fear driven. They’re so closed, it’s difficult to get through there, and you can try and be empathetic. You can try and reflect their feelings. You can try and let that resonate and trust the principle of reciprocity, where I’ll hear you and trust, that you’ll then hear me, but we’ve seem to have gone beyond that. I think it’s pride. That used to be the case. I’ve always counseled people in arguments, that your goal should not be to win. Your goal should be to be heard, and then just leave it at that and across time, you’re gonna get most of what you want. If you’re with a partner, that you love and that loves you, they’re gonna find a way to get you the most of what you want, and you’re gonna do the same with them, but I think in this country right now we’re past that. There is no reciprocity. You agree with me or screw you. It’s like they’re Star-Belly Sneetches and non Star-Belly Sneetches, just like you’re on the outside, and I see hostility a lot and I just didn’t see it before. No and I see it a lot too myself. I see where families are divided, people become divided based on their own personal beliefs, and they take their beliefs as if it is grounded in stone, or is written in stone, and it’s not written in stone, but we’re talking about characteristics of a person, that has stopped growing emotionally, physically and spiritually and when you don’t feed each one of those parts of who we really are, and we shut that down and we start forming these opinions. I think that pride and ego is a huge problem in the United States and when I’m putting on my training programs and I work with attorneys, and you know how big a egos they have, Doctor Phil, and I said take your ego, dump it in the trash can, you can come into my classroom. And once they do, they’re great at it, because they’re smart, they good words smiths, and they do a great job. Let’s talk about this for a second, and back to Betty in Idaho (Susan laughs). Just bust some myths about lie detection. We’re talking about deception detection, because you read all this stuff about people, when they lie, they look up to the left and stuff, and we know, that’s a lot of crap, but there are things, that ordinary people, with a little bit of thought, and a little bit of practice can use to detect, when somebody’s lying to them. Give us some of those rules and guidelines. Okay, well, first of all there’s no specific gesture, that it gives way to deception slam-dunked like a Shaquille O’Neal moment. There’s no such thing, but rather they happen in clusters. First thing is you have to understand, or read their baseline and you talked about that. Understand, read them up and down, see, how they normally respond in everyday life, and look for deviations from that. So if I’m having a conversation with someone, and I’m asking a probative question, and then at that point in time they shift their eyes, lick their lips and adjust their chair, I know, that’s a cluster because that happens in three different gestures, that happen within a certain period of time, I call it the three seven rule. So if you’re looking for three different gestures and movements from their baseline in a five to second period. In fact the new book, that I’m writing, is called “No Bull, How To Detect Deception In Seven Seconds Or Less”. So if you apply those principles, you can read those. So looking up like you talked about, looking up to the right, to the left, looking down, that’s an old myth. In fact 22 out of 23 peer-reviewed research articles have debunked that research and there’s nothing to back it up. What we’re looking for are indicators of deception, for example Christopher Watt, they saw him shrugging his shoulders often and when he’s shrugging his shoulders, and it’s not with, I don’t know, I don’t think so, whatever, and they’re giving a courteous, they’ll say, honey, you look great in that dress and then you shrug your shoulders (laughs), we know you weren’t being sincere. So that’s one of them. The other thing is we found, is that people’s eyes will dilate. We know that when people, there’s this arousal. In fact there’s a new technology out now, that’s called EyeDetect, that they detect just based on pupil enlargement, whether somebody is being deceptive, but the main thing is, is that find out how that person lies. Everyone lies differently. So there’s no certain method of lying, but humans haven’t changed since the beginning of mankind. There’s no new way to lie. You’re looking for different movements, off their norm. When you ask a question that might create anxiety, a stimulus, we call it. Does everybody lie?
Yes. How often do people lie in a day? They can lie up to 10 times or more. They say that like a person will lie within two times in one hour to their spouse. They’ve got all kind of statistics, that will back that up. Right, what are the main reasons people lie, when they lie? Many reasons and let me back up, when someone lies, there could different forms of lying. Boastful, it could be adding, exaggerating. That’s not really what I call a lie lie. Those are just kind of, I call them little white lies, so to speak.
Fluffing. Fluffing, exactly. So they lie because they wanna get out of trouble. They lie because they want to protect somebody else from harm, you might see that often in children, that have been abused by a parent. In fact we saw a horrible video on YouTube about it, a judge, that was beating their child with a whip. I don’t know if you’ve seen that one, and the child, a teenager, ended up videotaping at a webcam, so hopefully somebody would believe them, right? So we see those kind of things, such they may lie to people around them when they’ve noticed bruises, or things on their body, that look like they have been abused and they deny it, because they’re trying to protect themselves from harm. So, to protect themselves from harm, to protect other people from getting into trouble, they use it to maybe thrill. They like the thrill of it, boasting, pride. Take credit for work they didn’t do. Plagiarizing. Yeah, and escape accountability. Yes, that’s another one. They lie about something they did, when they don’t wanna get in trouble for it, that’s for sure. So if we’re talking to just the average person, they got kids, they got a spouse, and looking at these clusters, I wanna be real clear with people about clusters, because if they learn these individual behaviors and somebody does one of them, they’re like, uh, you’re lying! It might just be a habit, this is the way they express themselves, but if they’re in clusters, and there’s a pattern of clusters in particular, now you got a problem. That’s right, that’s when you now know, that they’re being deceptive, or there’s something different, and that’s really important, especially with parents with teenagers, that might be involved in some sort of dangerous behaviors, is looking for those changes in their demeanor, their affect is off, they seem to be more anxious and nervous than normal. They are isolating themselves, or going into other rooms, and staying away from people and you ask them direct questions, they avert their eyes and they walk away, or they turn their shoulders away, they’re different. The most important thing is to look for something, that’s not their typical, and a lot of the time, in fact in the Chris Watts case, the neighbor next door saw Chris Watts go in, in his car, back his car, and he’s going, something’s weird about this guy’s behavior, he never does that. He’s off baseline.
He’s off the baseline. So that’s what I’m talking about. Look for something that’s off the baseline, that can be in business, kids, your marriage, it doesn’t matter, it goes all the way across the line. When you’re actually interrogating someone, do you agree that people just don’t confess in a crowd?
No. That you’re better off to get them by themselves? Yeah, and also into an environment, where they feel safer in. So often times if you get them into an environment, where they’re more familiar with, they’re gonna be at ease. In fact there’s also, I’ve heard that if you offer them something warmer to drink versus an ice cold coke or something, they’re more willing to be able to share and open up with you, and your rapport building skills. It’s gotta be in a place, where they feel safe. If you’re putting them up against the wall in a corner, and there’s nothing on the walls and it’s all white, it’s automatically gonna increase anxiety, right? So when there’s already anxiety built up, it’s hard to read the tells, because the tells could be because the environment in itself is creating all these physiological responses, which could look just like deception. So the more familiar that area is to one, that feels near an environment, that feels more comfortable, a person’s gonna be more apt to open up, and again, the person who’s interviewing them, their demeanor, their eye contact, their voice inflection, how they’re responding to that subject, it’s gonna make a world of difference, whether you’re gonna get a confession or not. How do you feel about convincing statements? When you ask somebody, maybe petty cash is missing at the office, and so you’re questioning 10 people, and you come to person A and they say, “Listen, “people will tell you, I am the most honest person, “that ever worked in this office. “I swear to god, that I give more money to charity, “than is missing here.” How important is that in your analysis? Very important and those are red herrings too. So if they go trough the list of red herrings, or read about it, loophole lying, third-person gimmicks. So several of them, what people say, and when they start invoking religion, I swear to god, or here, ask my best friend so-and-so, I go to church with them on Sundays, you should believe me, I’m a good guy, and they try to paint this picture, because I remember, deceptive people, what they do is, they paint a picture about themselves to convince the other person, that they’re credible. So if in that logic, that when they start giving you that information and self-affirmation, like, I’m this great guy, that in itself should give you pause, because if you’re a good person, you don’t have to tell somebody you’re a good person. You don’t have to swear to god in order to be truthful. What did you say you call it, loophole? Loophole lying. What is loophole lying? Loophole lying is when you make a conversation, and they loop it back around and we this a lot of times in politics, politics will loophole lie through something. They’ll tell you something, they kind of loop it right back when they say, ask so-and-so, he’ll tell you I’m a good person and it’s like way to kind of loophole around it. Would you, when they’re telling you, how much they give to charity, they’re telling you, that everybody knows they’re honest, while they’re doing all of that, they’re not answering your question. No, and that’s a really good point, because if they don’t answer the question, and they answer the question with another question to try to figure out maybe what you know, or ask additional information, or take you off base, kind of throw you off-guard, that should be a clue. You shake your head no, when it’s a yes question, or say yes and oure shaking your head no, they’re incongruent. So those are lots, there’s so many different types of clues to look for, when somebody is being deceptive. These are really good signs for people to watch for, though if they give these departures from baseline, and if you’re working with a family member or a co-worker, you have a pretty good baseline and what you’re saying, is look for clusters of departures from those baselines, where they’re just behaving out of the ordinary. Don’t dismiss that. Don’t dismiss it, and that’s what people tend to do. They dismiss it and then they rationalize it. They start saying, well, they had a bad day, or so-and-so did this or that, and they start to rationalize it away. I’m saying, take it for what it is, because in lying, people, just in words in general, the subconscious mind is the one who chose. It’s through your subconscious, that you write down every word, that you put on paper. It’s your subconscious, that will write down to say every single word, that comes out of your mouth. So they chose it, no one else chose it, just you chose it. So if you look at it in that way and don’t try to think around it, through it, rationalize it, and just look at it as it is, and don’t do anything else, and just look at basically evidence, that’s before you, and analyze just that. So that’s what we’re doing in statement analysis. In statement analysis every single word, that a person puts on a paper, is relevant. It’s not by mistake that Chris Watts used the word was, in past tense.
Exactly. Okay, or that they might omit the word I in an event, so that they won’t put themselves into it. Or that they add the dot, dot, dot, which means, that there’s more information, or if they use hand gestures, they kind of flail around. We saw Chris Watts doing that, “Well, I killed her.” And he kind of does this with his hands. He’s telling you there’s more to the story. I found an interrogation, at least my experience has been, never accept the first admission, because they’re not gonna tell you the worst thing first.
No. They’re gonna tell you the easiest thing to admit first, and when I get an admission from someone upfront, I always say, “Thank you for that, “that really helps us move along. “Now let’s talk about what else you know.” Because if they’ve killed three people, they’re seldom gonna start with that. They’re gonna start with something like, I’ve probably done something I shouldn’t, or, maybe I shouldn’t have been there, maybe I was too judgmental. They’re gonna build up to telling you that, and if you say, oh well, okay, thanks for admitting that, appreciate you coming, whoa, wait a minute. They just told you the first thing, they’re gonna tell you. There is a whole lot more coming, and I see people stop too soon. They do stop too soon and they also don’t hitchhike off from the words, that they say. So, when we’re talking about minimal encouragers, and we don’t about a little different types of minimal encourager, if somebody says, well, this is all I can say right now, you might wanna say, right now? Because that’s where I’m gonna say, that’s telling us there’s more and they’ll tell us later. So when we’re talking about that confession, that’s showing me, that they’re closer to confessing, because they’re showing little resistance, but the very beginning in any sort of interrogation, we’re expecting them to deny. We want them to deny, right? That’s the whole point, we want them to continue to deny, and then, after they continued to deny, we know we’re closer to them giving us more information. It’s interesting psychologically, what happens, because all they’re really telling us, is that they’re holding back information, and that’s really, what most people do. Most people, when they’re deceptive, will tell you the truth, and I know this sounds really crazy, but they will tell you the truth, because it’s too hard to lie. Physiologically on the body it’s too hard to lie, so they’ll inject through. It’s like we saw that with Christopher Watts. He’ll tell them, where he was, where he’s going to be, because it’s easier to release some of that stress and that guilt, because I’m just gonna give you just nibbles of truth within that lie. Do you find it effective to plant a mind virus with someone? I want people to be sure and not confuse this with bluffing, because if you bluff, and you get caught, you loose power in the interview, but if you ask someone, like O. J., if you say to O. J., is there any reason someone would have told me they saw you in that neighborhood last night? You’re not saying someone did. You’re saying, is there any reason somebody would have told me they saw you there last night? That’s what I call planting a mind virus, because we think at 1,250 words a minute. We speak at 125 words a minute. If he wasn’t there, he should give you a no immediately. That’s true.
But if he has to stop and think, who could have saw me? Let’s see, I didn’t see any cars, I don’t remember anybody, no, nobody should, if he has to take five seconds to think that, and you’re thinking at 1,250 words a minute, then in five seconds you can go through 20 or 30 words to describe to yourself possibilities. Why do you have to turn that over in your head, and repeat the question back to me twice, before you answer?
Stop. You know you weren’t there, unless you know you were. Right, Read Investigative Interrogative is an organization, that teaches, which I’ve taken several of their courses about theming and storytelling, and we make them think, that we know more than what we actually do. For example you come into a room and you’ve got a stack of books there. It might have CDs and all kinds of tapes and things, you just put your hand on it, just anchor it, and automatically the person’s thinking, oh my god, they got a bunch of stuff on me. So for example is we minimize, we want to minimize, what they’ve done, like for example, I know, you’re not a bad guy. You seem like you’re a really good guy, standup citizen, you take good care of your family, you’ve paid your rent every single month, I just can’t imagine, why you would do. Why would you think that Betty would make that accusation? Well, maybe because, I needed a little extra money or whatever. So, you needed a little extra money? So then you can start playing off in their words. You start using their own words, what they say, minimal encouragers to get them going. So you get people to talk long enough, they will always hang themselves. So most people can only pay attention to what they’re saying or how they’re presenting themselves. It’s either their presentation or what they’re saying. They’ll only focus on one or the other, but they’ll completely forget other parts of it, and that’s what we find in some of these criminals. They think that they’re so good at fooling us. They’re gonna trip up in one of the two. Yeah, and there’s two different things here. I want people to think about, there’s a difference between deception detection, finding a liar or finding a lie and getting to the truth, those are two different things. It’s one thing to find out whether somebody is lying or not. So now you know, okay, I found a liar here. That’s one thing, but that’s only half the battle. Okay, now you’ve found this person is lying, now you gotta get to the truth. Just knowing, that they’re lying doesn’t tell you, Professor Plum did it in the library with the candle stick. You still gotta figure out, so you gotta find out, okay, I’ve got a liar here, what is the truth? And getting to the truth is different than spotting a liar. So you’ve got to first determine, whether somebody is lying to you or not. We’ve talked about they’ll give that away by departing from baseline. They’ll give it away by using convincing statements. Another thing I’ve seen them often do, I use a mind virus sometimes, that’s a big tell to me, and I’ll also sometimes ask them, what do you think should happen to somebody that’s done this? Oh, that’s really good, and then usually tell, they just need counseling and Doctor Phil (laughs). If it’s somebody, that is innocent, they’ll say, burn ’em. Oughta hang ’em from the courthouse lawn, and if it’s somebody that’s guilty, they’ll say, well, people deserve another chance.
Give ’em another chance. (beep) happens. They minimize and trivialize, because they go, I’m gonna get caught here in about 20 minutes, so let’s start easing up on this. That’s a big tell, right? It is a big tell, absolutely. So if you ask your kid, what do you think should happen if a kid sneaks out at night? Oh, you know, I think. Taking their (mumbles) away (laughs). Take their phone away for 20 minutes. I mean, they start trivializing. Those things are all good tells. If they put their hands to their face a lot, has been really a consistent cluster item for me. They try and hide their mouth, it’s like, I don’t want you to see me say this, is why they put their hands, or they touch their nose, and if you see that with them averting eye contact, all those things in clusters start to tell you a lie. They do, because when you’re lying, it causes this physiological response, right? So we go into that fight or flight mode, and all the blood kind of rushes away from the little capillaries, and it creates this irritations. So people start itching their face and scratching their cheeks or rubbing their neck. Any hand or face movement should always be recognized. Any time, like for example girls that are dating guys. I loved this when I was single. Well, this is what I do for a living. I make xyz and they come across and they scratch their face, and I’m going liar (laughs). I’m only 20. I saw a study the other day and I forgot the percentage, but it was something like 90% of the time the liar in an interrogation situation will point their feet towards the door. I’m not familiar with that percentage, but they will point their toes or their body language towards the exit or the door, because they’re basically saying, the heat’s too hot here.
I want the hell out. I gotta get out there. It’s so interesting if you know these things, and Betty in Idaho, these are things that can be learned, that you can watch for. You have to remember to watch for ’em in clusters to see if somebody is lying and then get to the truth. One of the things I do in trying to get to the truth, and I saw it happen with the interrogator with Chris Watts right before he confessed, I always try and keep people from flat out saying they didn’t do it, right before I’m gonna try and get ’em to confess, because they don’t have a face saving way out then. If they say, I did not do it, it’s hard to come back from that and so if I start to see them do that, if they start to say, I did, I say, Chris, let me stop you. I call their name out and stop them, so they don’t make that statement, because once they make that, it’s like they’ve thrown a stake in the ground and it’s gonna be hard to get them to pull that stake up, and make 180 degrees and come back. Psychologically, why make it hard for them to have a face saving way to reverse field and come out? Don’t let ’em do that, don’t let ’em throw down, that they didn’t do it, and I’ll say, Chris, let me stop you there. Look, I know, that you did this. I just need you to tell me why. Or, I’ve really got some problems with your story. I need you to help me understand some of these. I’ll say that if I’m not sure, I’ll say, I know, I just need to know why, if I am sure. If I’m close to sure, but not, I’ll say, frankly, I’ve got some problems with your story, and I need you to help me with five or six things. Will you help me with this? Yeah, and what you do is, you’re helping them to come on your team, to help you to solve the problem, or solve that mystery. Help me work this out.
I agree with you 100%. I really have had a lot of good luck with that, and keeping them in what I call the short-term time frame. Don’t think about a year from now. It’s you and me right here, help me figure this out, and if I can keep them in the moment, and they don’t realize, as soon as I answer that question, it ain’t gonna be just you and me. (Susan laughs) As soon as I answer this question, there’s gonna be nine FBI agents coming in here, and I’m gonna have a different life. I just want people to know these steps, that they can go through on the website. The most important thing, that the listeners need to know, is number one is, don’t jump so fast to make a judgment, because reading people is not judging a person’s character. It’s reading the non-verbal cues. It’s reading what we have in front of us, and then kind of decoding that and putting a meaning behind it, and they do have to happen in clusters. So what often people would do, is they pass judgment. They scratch their face one time, and all went, they’re lying, and even in my training classes, even when I teach mediators and judges and attorneys, and I’ll go through the entire training class with them, and tell them over and over again, you need to see these things in clusters and not pull up those individual cues, and all of a sudden think you can have a slam dunk and inevitably at the end, they will pull out one cue and they’ll say, they’re lying. So we have to be really careful of looking at people as liars, but looking at them as truth tellers. So, if we’re evaluating the truthfulness of others, and not trying to find the deception, you won’t have go in there with bias, and all you’re doing is allowing them to talk, listen to what they’re saying, look for things, that happen in clusters, and then cluster those movements with what just happened right then. You’ve given us some examples here. We have, and we’ll put these on the website, because they can’t see them now, but this is Bill Cosby’s mugshot. What do you see in that? He’s depleted, at the same time you can see the pain and suffering in his forehead. And what do you see in his forehead? Well, what I’m seeing is the wrinkles across his forehead is either these muscle movements, that are right here, and they’re showing tension, distress and pain in his forehead. His mouth is turned down, right here, because he knows at this point in time, there is no way out. You see all this is not grief for other people. It’s like the expression, that he’s feeling, that he’s caught, and that’s causing this physiological response of there is this wrinkling, and his forehead and the muscle movements here, but what you look at, you compare the top portion of the face to the bottom. His eyes are turned down, you see the corners of his mouth turned down, he’s in sadness. So this in reflection. He’s looking at probably right now remembering everything, that has happened in the past, and is reflecting, and you’re seeing that tension and pain there in his forehead. Yeah, because that’s a lot of tension, he’s carrying right there, right? Yes, but his whole face is flat, his affect is gone. It’s like because all his emotion has literally flooded from his body, I call this his face has melted off in sadness. Now, we’re looking at Christine Ford during her testimony. You have some interesting observations about her at this time. We have talked earlier about congruence. Is her message here, her non-verbals, her facial expressions, her micro expressions, are these consistent with her verbal message? Well, we’re looking at this particular facial expression right here, we’re looking at a couple of things. She’s got her glasses down, so this is a type of person, that can be critical. Sometimes we see a judge do that when they’ll peer over and above their eyes, but when you look at her bottom half of her mouth, the corners again of her mouth are turned down, that’s sadness. Now in older women, naturally we have this turning down, just in aging, but it’s that cheek flat affect, that comes from the cheek on down. So there’s no movement, there’s no lifting of the cheeks of someone, that feels confident, what she’s doing. Even though her eyes are wide open, look at the sadness. You can see sadness even in the forehead. Even though her eyebrows are not turned up, we have to, when we look for sadness, where the corners, the pinches in the center and they kind of go up like in an S curve, you don’t see that so much, but when you see any type of horizontal movement here on the forehead, that’s when the person is under emotional distress. Horizontal movement, you mean– The horizontal lines across the face shows emotional distress and then we look at the bottom of the face, right? She’s slid, her eyes are wide open, she’s listening, she’s got her eyes down, she’s focused, she’s attentive, but the bottom of her face is very sad. Did you believe her? Yes, I did. Not all of it. Did she believe herself? She believed herself and what she didn’t believe, is that she was also a participant in her being in that room with Kavanaugh by himself, because in statement analysis we look for words like we, and she uses the word we. We as in joined together, so you don’t go with a perpetrator as a couple, you go individually as I. So we saw the word we pop in there. The other thing is is that what happened was behind those closed doors, I think, the environment changed and he got more aggressive with her, and then when he was asked the question, did he grind her, did you grind her? That’s when you saw the clusters of behavior of deception. So it is my professional opinion at that point in time, he was not telling us the full truth. There’s something that happened there. Would you think they went in there together? They went in there together. What happened once they were in there is open to debate? Yes.
Because nobody knows, once the door was closed.
And he got aggressive, and she didn’t like it, and that’s when the environment changed. Did you believe him? No, not as much. Do you think he was coached? No, he couldn’t keep his emotions in check, Doctor Phil, that was the problem. He was, I mean, when somebody is being accused of something, the natural reaction is probably to defend, and to be angry, but he also knows courtroom decorum, right? So he knows how’s he supposed to conduct himself. It’s what he does for a living. He became completely unglued, he was over the top angry, showing all kinds of areas of deceptive indicators, which caused me to have pause. What were the deceptive indicators? He showed contempt and lots of scorn and anger, like how dare you ask me those questions? How dare you think that of me? I mean it was so extreme, it looked like a mad dog. Well, we know that the sneer is the one asymmetrical facial expression in mankind, right? Yes.
I don’t know, how to do it. You’re talking about contempt, because contempt is a unilateral movement, when the mouth goes to one side or the other, and that’s contempt. That’s more like, yeah, you don’t know, what you’re talking about, you’re full of crap, but then you mix that with the nose going up, which is a sneer, it’s a vertical movement, the sneer. That is what we call a dangerous demeanor. When you cluster that together, that is a very powerful cocktail and it’s linked with abuse of behavior, so that’s what paused me. If you look at some of the training and the research behind Doctor Matsumoto’s work in dangerous demeanor, and also Doctor Paul Ekman, you’ll notice that there is these clusters of emotions, that you see fleeting across the face, that are indicators of a perpetrated attack. So, the expressions, that he was showing, were consistent with what we would have seen in dangerous demeanor. Do you think people have a general persona, a general way, they carry and present themselves in the world? Yeah, I think that everybody has their own persona, their own individual persona, yes, they do, and then if that’s what his demeanor would be, and in everyday life, which I don’t think it is, then that would be, if that was his normal demeanor, then that would have been considered being anything to look at, because we were looking at twigs or movements or things, that are similar, that are their norm, even though they may be linked to deceptive behaviors, but if they smirk all the time, then that’s their– It’s their baseline.
They’re just condescending, or they’re just naturally condescending. So, read my body language, my persona. (laughs) Your persona?
Read me, tell my fortune. You’re very relaxed, you’re leaning back, which is, he’s now relaxed. We’ve been talking for a long time, we’ve built rapport, and making great eye contact. When I’m looking at your body language, look at your legs, they’re more opened in a sense, that you’re feeling–
They’re not faced towards the exit, so it’s not like I want out here (laughs).
No, no, no, so here’s a person that is more open and free to talk. Also, your body language is not tight, it’s more open, so I see it as a more powerful, confident individual. Yeah, good thing, bad thing? Good thing. You watch me on TV, I don’t know what you’re watching, but you’ve seen me.
I do watch you, I do. How do you think people read me on television? I think that people look at you, they see you as a person, that has knowledge, that knows what they know, because your demeanor is one, that is easygoing, that is very likable and approachable, but yet you have a sense of authority, without having to make a lot of movement and the lack of that lots of movement is showing you that you are a very confident individual. I wouldn’t use the word powerful, because that is not how you appear, you just appear confident, and in your gestures, when you’re talking to people, you’re using a lot of open hand gestures, because you’re looking for feedback and collaboration, but when you don’t like something, you put the hand up here, or you put your palm down and like, this is a way, that it is, let me tell you something, stop right there. So you do use some strong hand gestures, but I’m thinking about when you come right out on the stage, you have a very relaxed way about you, which makes people feel comfortable from the very beginning. You don’t come across pompous or arrogant.
That’s good. Well sometimes we see, because when you come across too powerful, it can set people off, especially for those people that don’t feel powerful about themselves. So you have this very natural flow and fluidity in your movements, that’s what I see. I learned something one time, that you think I’d be smart enough to have known on my own, but when I was in practice, I had a behavioral medicine practice, psychology and physiology, and how they come together, so I made rounds at the hospital every morning, calling on the medical population. I dealt with a lot of brain and spinal cord injuries, and I worked with a neurosurgeon, Paul Renton, was just a terrific guy, I learned so much from him, and he’s passed away now sadly, but I’ve always had the ability to get people to talk to me, and just tell me anything. That was probably the thing I enjoyed the most, was I get lots of information in a short period of time, and I was going in and talking to a man, that had been injured on a job, so they were in bed, and I would come in and I couldn’t get him to talk to me like I normally did, and I thought, what is the deal? And Paul Renton’s a little guy, about a 400 IQ, he called me out in the hall one day and he said, hey, come here, dummy. He said, wanna know why these guys aren’t talking to you? I said, yeah, I actually I would, and he said, these are man that work with their back, and their arms and their shoulders. They’re macho and they’re powerful, and you’re six foot four, lording over them, when they feel so compromised. They can’t get up, they can’t move, their back is injured, they feel like they’re half a man, and in here you come in, lording over them and they’re feeling terribly intimidated and inadequate. So they’re not gonna talk to you. So, I went in the very next room and pulled up a chair next to the bed and got down at their level, and said, hey, bang. They started talking to me, we were eyeball, eyeball again, and I’m like, you’re the psychologist. How dumb are you that you didn’t think about that? I was in such a hurry, seeing 20 people, I’m zooming through there and I thought, god, you always learn something. Right, and you know Bill Clinton was an excellent rapport builder, because when he was talking to people, he always made them feel like they were important, and he came eye to eye level, and that’s what important in leadership or any type of business, is to make sure, that you can adjust your stance, your body language, so that you can be more eye to eye with other people, because people trust you more, they like you more, when you’re looking at each other from eye to eye at the same level, because you think of that as somebody is towering over you, you look like a dictator. If you’re down too low, you loose your credibility. So it’s really important to not let people know, that you can validate, that you connect with them, and that’s what really important. I think that you do that extremely well. It’s your voice and the caring, and you seek to you understand and not to be understood. So you’re not coming from a place, that I have all the knowledge and you’re doing it all wrong. I wanna understand why you think and the way you feel, so that I can help you and that comes across incredibly clear and that’s one of the reasons, why I watch you every day. It’s my Hillbilly charm. And I get to read you now.
Okay, go ahead, all right. You see I do this do. We got a show about Chris Watts, and I invited Susan to be there. I took great note of some things, that you do. So I’m gonna be complementary here about this.
Thank you. You play big not long. I play big not long. You play big not long, and I’ve written about this. A lot of people come on and they wanna talk a lot, they fight for the mic, the wanna be the center of attention, and then there are other people, they come on and they’re very comfortable about who they are and what they have to say, and they’re not worried about how much time they talk, or how many words they say, but they’re very confident, that when they speak, it’s gonna be profound, it’s gonna land, I have something of importance to add to this conversation, and I know that, very confident in that, I don’t have to be anxious about it, and when you speak, you speak very clearly. You pay attention to the audience. You pick out several people in the audience, and they’re your barometer, and if you see them tracking, then you know, okay. (Susan laughs) If they get it, then they all get it, and you’re very rhythmic in your communication. You’ll speak for 30 or 45 seconds and even if the thought is not complete, you stop for feedback, interjection, question and then go on, instead of filibustering for a long period of time, even if the thought’s not finished, in case somebody wants to insert something, and then you go on, because you’re looking for interaction, partnership and exchange rather than being expositional and didactic. That’s very true and I’m not that person, I’m not one that has to be out there and be the center of attention, and I can really connect with you on a level of when you’re going to a house party. I’m not gonna flit around the room, and be the social butterfly. I really enjoy one-on-one connection, and I do, when I’m speaking in training, I pull up my energy sources before I connect with and those are great for me, because they are pacifiers. They are the safe places for me to go. So when I hear people, that filibuster, and all they’re doing is wanna be heard, and they think, that everything that comes out of their words is so profound, I tune an ear away from that. I think that there’s something, that I think, that is good about me, is I’m very real. I don’t have to fake it til I make it. I’m sitting here with Doctor Phil, I feel completely comfortable. I feel like we could sit and have a cup of coffee and be friends.
Oh yeah. And that’s the way I look at it. One of my greatest trainers in public speaking is, get out of the performance mode and sit down and have a cup of coffee with friends, and that’s what gets me to get beyond the fear, and I don’t think about how I sound, how I’m presenting myself, I’m just going with my heart, and when I go with my heart and what I believe in, then everything falls into sync. Yeah, it really does, and the fact, that you are a two way communicator makes whoever you’re dealing with feel very engaged, even the audience, which wasn’t participating verbally. I watched their level of engagement with you today, and it was very high.
Thank you. Very high level of engagement, because you engaged with them. It has to be a conversation with me, whether it’s non-verbal or verbal, I have to volley the ball back and forth. I gotta play tennis (laughs). And then the second thing, that I noticed, is you are a very good listener, because everything you said either complemented or built off of something others had said, but there was nothing repetitive. You didn’t say what two people down here had said, but you might say, based on what somebody down here said, in addition to that this, or that, which means, you’re not just sitting there, thinking about, what you’re going to say. You’re listening to and participating to everything, that’s going on, so you can edit and add to it, instead of just sitting here, thinking about what I’m gonna say. That’s a really valuable skill, when you’re moving at a fast pace and on a fly like that, instead of having to think about, what you’re gonna say, you can take everything in that’s going on around you, and then add to it or operate on it and move forward in a very fluid way. Thank you.
Which is not an easy thing to do. I have to do it a lot, so I know it’s not easy to do. Well I look at people that appear, and everybody has something great to share and they have their own expertise, and we can always learn from other people, and we can always pull nebulas from different people and learn from other people. When we stop doing that, we stop learning, we stop growing. That’s just the way I am, it’s the way I’ve always been. Like Steve today, I mean, he had probably a fraction of the formal education of a lot of the people up there, but so much wisdom from being a street cop, being in the trenches, and I thought his contribution to the panel today was invaluable. Absolutely.
He’s been in that room, when they’ve made those confession. He’s been there when they have turned that corner. He’s been there for the arrest, he’s been on those house tours, he’s also a very intelligent guy, but I mean the street wisdom, that he had, I thought was invaluable. Yes, I did too. In fact I sat and had long talks with him afterwards, and I’ve said, you gotta show me some of these techniques about how women can protect themselves, and he was showing me everything. He’s really willing to share, because he cares about it, and it’s really obvious, that he cares about what he does. He’s not there to be on show. He’s there because he wants to help people, and one of the things that I love about when I’m training, is when I know that I’ve got the uhu moment, is when I see their eyes light up. When I look at the audience and I see them connecting, I see them nodding their heads and they’re thinking about when something happened to them, or what they can recall from in their past, that you’re speaking to me. That to me is what makes me wake up in the morning. That’s what makes me want to do what I do, knowing that what I do has impacted people, and that’s one of the reasons why I had gone into the industry to help training our judges, our department of defense, our department of children and families, attorneys and mediators, because I think they make mistakes. They’re making false judgements and quick calls on things, and they’re not really reading the cues properly. So I feel a duty to teach them. In fact I trained our federal court judges. I wasn’t paid for it, I did it out of civic duty, because I felt it was important for you guys to know, how to read people accurately, so that when you’re out there you’ll be able to pick up the clues, when somebody is giving a lie or they’re not, and they’re being truthful, because we know, that at 50% at best most people are flipping a coin, can read deception and that includes federal court judges, that includes a lot of our psychological community, and it’s very dangerous and I need and I feel, that my mission in life is to help train people too that are in the position of making judgements about other people and so that they can do that accurately. That’s what I feel is important to me. Well, you must feel very fulfilled. You presented to like seven million people so far today, so–
And I didn’t even shake. The only shaking that I did, because it was a little cold in there. (audience laughs) It was cold in here. Well, will you come back and do this again? I would love it, thank you so much.
Thank you.

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