Graeme Reed: did we do it? Should we do an intro thing like a, hey everybody, welcome to. Ryan Joyce: I’m, I’m, and I’m… Graeme Reed: Yeah! Everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into Magicians Talking Magic. My name is Graemazing slash Graeme. Ryan Joyce: And I’m Ryan Joyce slash juicy joycee. juicy joycee Today on Magician’s Talking Magic, we’re going to cover a bunch of things in the news, news and Reddit. There’s TV magic news and of course we’re going to discuss some promotional stuff, marketing stuff, business cards. Graeme Reed: We were even involved in a recent, a magic trick release. Ryan Joyce: That’s right. Graeme Reed: We have an exclusive story on that whole thing, which is very exciting, so it’s going to be fun episode. All right, well let’s dive in because there’s some TV exciting news. I haven’t yet. Actually you got to see the whole series yet, but magic for humans 2. Yeah that’s exciting that they’ve got a Justin Wilman is for season two of magic for humans. Who was the first one was so creative, so creative. It’s going to be like the best thing out there on Netflix right now for magic. If you want to watch manager,. Ryan Joyce: What would you say your favorite moment in in the first series was? Graeme Reed: Uh, it’s hard to pick. There’s two favorite moments and I bet they’re like kind of everybody’s favorite moments. The one is the invisible guy, right. Make the, I think he’s invisible. That’s hilarious. And the kids with the marshmallows, right? Of course, the kids with the marshmallows Yup. And if obviously if you haven’t seen this, you have to get on Netflix. Don’t stop this, finish it and then watch it. But uh, yeah, you have to check out these episodes. It’s so good. Ryan Joyce: I still, I’ve the last one to see. I left on a ship and I didn’t download it in time. Um, but I, you know, the one that sticks out for me is without a, without a doubt, was that he’s the kid in the marshmallow play because it was like that piece of magic that moment really said like we’re willing to do just about anything to anybody. But obviously kid friendly, you know? That’s what I loved about that is it really, it made a statement. Yay. Those kids were very much bewildered and I, I’m a little bit older on some of it too, truthfully. Graeme Reed: I, yeah, I don’t know how everything works. I know he is at a super creative team working on it. I know he’s gotta at least Kyle Marlett helping him because he, oh, that’s a huge creative force working on the show. So, you know, when you have all these people working on that, you’re gonna have amazing tricks. I think he’s like, they’re also cleverly using the fact that it’s on television. Yup. Right there. He’d really taken that to their advantage and it’s not in a weird way, it kind of like what you traditionally see with maybe at the David Blaine or the Chris Angel where you’re starting to think of those people in on it, or if they cut a new shot in, you can tell it’s raw. It’s raw, but there might’ve been, maybe something happened before, right. Or something. Who knows? But it’s really, it’s an, it’s a pretty amazing show to watch and it’s all about the reactions. That’s what makes it fun. I mean, the reactions of this incredible magic because the stuff he’s doing is really great. The other visual that stands out now that I’m going back through it is the, the levitation and the, you know, the yoga mindfulness thing. That was so great. Yeah, that was perfect. How perfect was that? I still love magic for seasons. Yeah. I, it’s just fun to say I find myself saying it just randomly throughout the day. My Mom’s name is Susan. Oh, there you go. Yup. Yup. Home run right there. Nailed. Yeah. Magic for Georgia is nothing lying in other news, unfortunately. Legendary magician. Don Wayne is passed. Yeah. This was quite a shock, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, he was labeled by Magic magazine as one of the most influential magicians in the past a hundred years. Yeah. And I mean, looking back through his history, it was just incredible to see the things that he has been responsible for are unwilling. These are big ones too, like pretty much anything major Copperfield. So Statue of Liberty walking through the Great Wall of China escaped, you know, from Niagara Falls, all that floating over the Grand Canyon Down Wayne, um, 18 years, 18 years as a magic consultant. So wow. And he worked with like all the grades on top of you worked with them Hahn’s clock and Siegfried and Roy and everyday. So like all that stuff. I mean, I guess for anyone in a certain the right demographic that saw the, those nineties, eighties, early two thousands magic specials witnessed the creative Mt. And Don Wayne. Brilliant. And I honestly, to be honest, I only like he, everyone knows about Don Wayne and the floating ball. That’s like his claim to fame, I think in the magic community. And of all the creations. Yeah. And you would see various magicians like Matt to Sarah was posting a thing on his Facebook wall, like in memory of done. Um, but I never knew that he was actually that involved with Copperfield. I wasn’t that aware. So when we were doing our research, it was fascinating to learn all this then to see how many things he’s actually touched. 17 television specials, the home, the, I believe, I remember it was over 800 weeks of international touring. Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s a lot. That’s a lot of time on a plane. edit of ’em edit those copper fields, specials, those big grand illusions, like the Statue of Liberty walking through the Great Wall, the Orient Express, the these big ones. Do you have a favorite of those? Well, you know what, like, uh, the statue of Liberty was exciting for me because a, I came in so much later in this, in the scale of David Copperfield, I came in really the first one I remember, it was the Orient Express. So in that era it was almost impossible to track down a VHS tape of David Copperfield when I w there was no other magicians in my family. You know, there was nobody that was actively magic fans. So I, it took me a couple of years before I actually saw that illusion. So when I actually got to see it, it was really exciting, you know, because by that point I had been many years in the industry and like as a kid and really excited and you hear all the hype and everything, but yeah, I’ll just see it with your own eye, you know? Unbelievable. Yes. It’s crazy to think I really enjoy it. I’ve always enjoyed the Great Wall. Walk to the Great Wall cause it’s so brilliant. So impossible, right? Just there’s so much. I mean the theater of it. Yeah. So much wall either which way? And the reactions that when the Deli shot, uh, they, she camera goes up and over and you can see the people hustle over. Cause it really is. It’s shoot was so great then they really did cover feel nailed the filming of everything he did right here. Uh, and I’m sure that’s because he has people like Don Wayne on the, you know, behind the camera in the, in, in, in that side of it, the behind the scenes that we don’t really get to see. Right. Yeah. You never know about all these periods in Miami you search and learn about now cause you know it’s available. But who is helping out with all these things? That’s right. And John’s, sorry Jim Steinmeyer I’ve met Jim. Sanmar is another magic creator who’s legendary and created a lot of things for Copperfield and, and of course Daniel Summers, you can create some incredible illusions. But outside of that, I, you know, there’s, there’s really not a lot of bigger magic thinkers, right? Yeah. There’s not, there’s the, well I guess like Franz are already plastic. Yeah. He’s like, you do illusions. I’m so unfamiliar with illusions cause I only do the closeup illusions. I don’t even do illusions anymore. Like, I feel, I mean I do of course I cause I’m paying to store them, but I, I feel like I’m, most of my stuff is out of a solo briefcase. But yes, I definitely have a lot of road time with illusions. I’m uneducated on illusion. Um, what do those great minds that you just discussed? Have they made some of your stuff isn’t a things that you do in Jan? Daniel Summers has made some, a lot of the, the illusions in the show, you know, things like instant babe, which I have just loved it. It was so great way to do and an an appearance without a box. Cause I’ve never been a big fan of the, you know, the box style. I was definitely on the more modern front. So I was really fussy about my material and Dan always created really innovative like magic props that weren’t so magic. yeah. So yeah, Dan and compressed and he just had a lot of really great innovative thoughts. Who makes it clips his illusion as a clip. That was our Kailyn and ginger’s originally. They, they changed to like the overall visual as a, as I understand it. Um, uh, and then we remarket it with this, this visual, but how they presented with something totally different. Right. Which I never have gotten to see carnival wonders. I would love to sell it southern and everything like that. I, the shot that I just still remember is that, um, the, the backdrop get sucked up into a poker or whatever it is. It was just, Oh, it would be, I never seen mark Kaylin and ginger live and I only remembered them like the world’s greatest magic. Right. Oh, incredible. The tiger and the necklace, that case. So both of them are so captivating. They’ve got such a ooze personality or they’re great. Yeah. Total shell people. Yep. I saw I was flipping through Reddit as it is that the adjective you used? They’re flipping through Reddit, scrolling, scrolling, dialing through. And I was struck by, there was a really creative promotional photo that I thought was really, really great. And um, I, I’m a big fan of this kind of stuff. In fact, I follow a couple of photographers who create a, I would just pose it as like basically promotional photos of themselves. There’s one guy from Canada actually at Westwood that I follow and he, he just miniaturizes himself in all sorts of incredible settings. And, and so when I saw this reddit photo, I thought, how clever for somebody to to take that, you know, I have a new interesting stance at magic and he’s basically reaching into a top hat in the hand that’s coming down through the top of the frame and pulling him out of frame. It’s great. It’s just a great, he’s got funny ears on. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. He’s pulling himself as this Meta kind of thing. Yup. Now when you told me about this, I thought we were talking about the same thing, but I had seen something different. Oh, I saw it. Um, is a video and I’m pretty sure I suppose on Facebook somewhere. Okay. And it’s being shared on magic community. But you see a guy with like a, a derby hat or a bowler hat and he’s looking at the hat and out comes a hand like a pause and grabs him and pulls him into the hat and then out he comes out of a hat and there’s an audience of rabbits and the magician as a rabbit. And I’m like kind of, I haven’t seen this yet. Complete role reversal today. It’s fun. It’s hilarious to tap into. Like if you’re pulling a rabbit out of the hat, which is like the Magic Cliche, right? Like this guy. Is there a vortex in there bunnies? Is it like rough shaky footage? Like it was done on a phone or was it like professionally shot? Well the first part it seems just like it’s standard. Like yeah I’d love to see this. I on your cell phone and then it goes into like a, it’s graphics I think after like, cause there’s that one. Everybody does this shot now where the person’s holding the photo and then they reach into the photo and that person pulls them into the photo, which is a real added quick edit and well, I mean it’s free. You got to key frame, but surely you could. Everyone seems to be doing that lately. So yeah, I’d love to see that. I wish we could get a copy of that. Yeah, they’ll find, do you think a, maybe if someone out there knows where this came from, if they can like link it to us so we can share. Cause I honestly don’t remember. I saw it and maybe I made it up in like a fever dream maybe. Yeah. Cause you just had your teeth pulled, right. It sound like wisdom teeth taken out. Yep. So you like a couple ounces lighter, a couple of ounces lighter and the I loaded up with tee threes and everything, you know, buzzing like a bunny BP. Uh, I don’t know why I default to the beep beep boop DBU. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the sounds of the out on the floor. R j. D. T uh, yeah, that’s right. So some exciting news on Penguin, penguin magic. So if you were to check out the top 10 releases and penguin right now, I don’t know if it’s number one anymore because everything’s being released all the time. Yep. And right up there is this new Paul Harris effect called deep clear. And we know a little bit about that. We know a little bit about this trick because we have some sort of weird insight on the whole thing. We got to do production work with Paul and helped put together the whole trailer and a little bit of tutorial and stuff for the, the whole trick and everything. Um, I, it’s fascinating that I manage to true connections in the magic world. I think it was Josh, um, suggested me to Paul to help work on some video things and this group, um, as like a fan of magic growing up, you know, born in the 80s, growing up in the 90s, you gravitate to specific teachers and magic, especially if you’re in Toronto. So in Toronto, if you were to go to the browsers, Denim Magic Jeff at the browsers, then we’ll probably recommend Jay Sankey. Right. You’ll get a j Sankey trick and I don’t know anybody they wouldn’t recommend, right? Yeah. So you start off with Jay Sankey, you get a funny videotape or you get one of his tricks, but then you’re like really you become a fan of Jay because he’s really funny. He’s empowering. He makes magic seem easy to learn and everything. And then if you’re into j and you really start learning magic the next time you go to the shop and you say, I’m ready, I’m ready to take the next step. What probably is suggested as Paul Harris or you’ve also learned about self, cause Jay talks a lot about Paul too. Like Jay’s really influenced by Paul Harris as well is there is books are incredible, so creative like so poetic. All the tricks and everything and art of astonishment. We’ll leave blinks cause there, yeah, it should be included on everybody’s. Yeah, everyone should have them all three yard of astonishments. There’s closeups, deductions. He’s got so many books out there that are now, I figured like when you got asked about this original, I figured at a little envelope who wrapped in leather would arrived. Right? Yeah. There’d be a hundred character that hands it to you. Right. And it had the initial or the, the, the signature on it and you open up and it’s, this is the invitation to work with, you know, rolling out a handmade paper. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of desk, like a quilt pops out of it. Yeah. All the pressure points that he wrote. I figured that’s, that isn’t how it happened. Right. Is 100% how it happened. Yeah. Yeah. True statement. You heard it right here. Additions, talking magic. If you’re waiting to work with Paul when you get that fancy envelope and that’s the sign, no weather changes or anything before I can know. I can’t talk about that part. Sorry. That’s the part you can’t talk. It was a great trick and you should check it. We’ll leave the, yeah, so the chicken. Yeah. The trick is diamond. You filmed, you helped found the demo. I, we, yeah, we had beautiful day and fall last year and we’ve in Gwelf University. Yeah. Miranda do magic on and pretend to be students. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. We kind of, I don’t, ah, hopefully well doesn’t see this but I think no one will from Gwelf. But um, it was fun cause we just kind of ambushed the students there and I think we pitched it as, so this is like a good tip if you’re filming a product for a trick, right? Um, we went in there and we just said, hey, uh, my name is Graham slash Grameen cause that’s how I’m going to introduce myself all the time. And we presented it like I have a brand new magic trick that I want to share with the world that might end up on youtube. It’s going to end up online. Are you okay with being in the video? And by that point you’d be recording. We’ve got all this on tape so that we have that confirmation everything. And then I present polls, strick. And this trick is, it’s a really good, it’s a full routine. You got a cute little magic trick at the start. Yeah, the kind of breaks the ice helps bring people in and opener, fun. An opener, a perfect opener followed by an incredible mentalism PC. Do close up where you’re predicting someone’s thought of word and it’s on the back of playing cards that you had clearly in a wallet the entire time. It’s really to take off his ritual, a deep astonishment. The reactions during all of the filmings who solid like every one of them was the one we were on the bench when we were filming the group or the venture was great. Yeah, total authentic, just like totally fried and when we’d asked them like, how do you think it happened? They all, a lot of people are like, I don’t know, maybe you tapped into my brain somehow or, and that’s if you’re doing this kind of stuff. That’s the reaction you’re aiming for. Mary A, I’ve seen some comments online of people questioning the routine. Like, I don’t get this, this first part to get there, but if you really analyze any of Paul’s work, it’s all Kinda cute and fun and then becomes so amazing cause to get to get to the amazing part, like on stage, you’ve got to like build rapport with the audience and you can’t just go, who was the first person you kissed? Right? So that’s creep show, right? That’s creep show. It’s a well-structured retain. Yeah, absolutely. It gets everyone on your side and then you reveal the incredible magic word and then everyone’s floored. It’s perfectly set up. I mean, great piece. It’s Paul, so, right. Yeah. Great piece. Yeah, totally. It was so much fun to film. I enjoyed being part of that. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s fun to get to talk magic with Paul because I remember we were just talking about the routine and talk about, uh, the editing of the trailer and everything like that. Um, and I would bring up ideas like, well, what do you think about the should be showed that? And Paul would be like, let’s talk about that. And you know, as a kid that grew up on his books, did it like, um, I’m chatting magic philosophies with Gandalf right now, right now live. Yeah. On the phone. Yeah. So that was a real treat. Super cool that we got to do that. Um, I highly suggest the trick I think is an awesome trick. Yeah. Penguin check it out. Yeah. Yeah. And you got to give it at least a couple of good performances. We’re not affiliated with penguin, we’re just, there’s no affiliation with any of this. Like we’re done with the project. There’s no, no reason to do this. I just, we just want to talk about it. I think it was really, yeah, it was a lot of fun. What would definitely include it in the show notes so you can see the video. Yeah. Yeah. We’re always talking about business cards. Um, I don’t have a business card, but I know I should. It’s so weird that you don’t have the business cards. I don’t know why you’d want a business card. I know I I, well on the ship I have no need I guess. So. I mean those people aren’t really booking entertainment and if they do, they connect with me through the website, social media and stuff like that. But I should have one of this. This is not an excuse. I mean I should absolutely have a business card. So what do you think the key essential things do include on a business card are, so I know there’s a whole lot of philosophy and what you should have on a business card. Um, he’s, some people think you should have your photos so that you remember your face after, uh, maybe you do a tent business card so you can get like quadrupled the amount of information. Um, I have like, I don’t think you need a picture of yourself necessarily because hopefully they’ve seen you, they get you. If they’ve asked for your business card, they should have an idea of who you are. I think the key ingredients, what you definitely need to have on the business card would be like your logo. But not even a logo. Cause we talked about just a typeface that says your name, clearly what you represent, your phone number and your email website. And probably just like the social media you use the most, cause you don’t want to kill it with so much information, just keep it really reduced and simple. I think. So I encourage people to go to Instagram. I think right now Instagram is probably the most, uh, correctively used social media maybe like people are actually engaging on it where Facebook is littered with ads and right. You know, shenanigans like that. Um, so I think I just post my Instagram on there and from there you’ll find the rest of my social media. I think it’s easiest when a tap in to that from someone’s them. That’s a good name because all of my handles are the same. Are All your handles pretty much the same? Yeah, they pretty much pretty much the same. I never know what to do with with that, but it does seem that everyone is leaning towards Instagram. At least that’s the first one. They can just instantly scroll and see instantly. Yeah. Right, right, right. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I now have a business card for the festival, but I don’t have one for my own self. I always thought if someone was at interest that I would take their, their number. Right. And then, cause then I had the power but I lightly saying like we talked about this thing and they upset to you but it looks like a business card and keep it cause you want to follow up with them personally. Or even, I’ve even had people write their number on my business card. I keep my own, you know, because I want to get that business or try and follow up as much as they can. Another thing I had on the business card, I heard this from Lou Serrano, it was like a, he’s really big into like corporate magic and all big into SEO. He’s got tons of podcast episodes. They’re all over the place. But um, he talks about putting social proof on there. So like a quick review or testimonial. Uh, I just do one which would be like the biggest highlight for me. So it’s like a local TV host, uh, in his comments. It’s just hugely entertaining. It’s really small and simple. But then it says local TV station, his name. And for the most part, the people that I’m performing for, we recognize that. They know what that is. Another thing I do, but it’s because of my graphic designer. I changed the design on mine, every 500 business cards out of personal boredom. Ryan Joyce: Sure. I agree with you. But then I had seen and it’s so cheap nowadays, it’s very cheap. I do vista print. That’s where I go to. I mean the quality is actually pretty good as long as it’s so fast too. If you design your, your files correctly, my alienated jpeg. Right. As long as it’s again, no affiliation, just this is what we use. It’s just common. Yeah. So I got new banners for the festival, a little tablecloth and everything’s great. Yeah. I’ve been making banners, markets and everything Graeme Reed: and uh, I think like friend of the show, Scott Scott Blade does the same thing. Ryan Joyce: vista print. I, yeah. Be Curious to talk in addition to this, I would be curious to know what kind of marketing stuff you have separately that you’ve created or printed and you as well. Like what kind of things are you using in your business? I’ve got the, for the festival, I just have the tablecloths printed. It looks like it just looks pro a couple of banners that I have for my own. For Magic and hip. No. So when they walk into the theater there’s a nice little visual splash. Um, maybe you know, outside of those rack cards and things, business cards, what do we, what do you, what else do you use? Graeme Reed: For me? So lately I’ve been doing a lot of postcard things cause it’s all the promos or skirts and what I’m doing is a, cause we’re running a lot of local theater shows and things in town and ran around town. So I have a, basically all I did was that I made the, I printed them out myself cause they’re pretty disposable and quick cardstock a eight and a half by 11 poster, reducing the corner for cut, cut. And then you have all these handouts. So I promoted all the shows, the local shows that way. I’m involved in like a comedy sketch, comedy shows. So that’s there. Uh, the secret shows that we run and everything like that are there. And then I have one that also promotes all the, if someone wants that hard sale, like you know the corporate events, the wedding, the close of blog, I have one for that too. Right. Specific for that. And then just my business card kind of thing. Right. Yeah, Ryan Joyce: I know, I know it was thinking it’s important too with your business card once it’s finished and designed before it’s printed and I hold it from a distance and see like what jumps out at you because you really want it to say your name and what you do. And the phone number is like no one’s going to instantly see phone number from a distance, but there’ll be interested to find it when they’re calling you. So I would focus on the PR, like the category that you fit in, magician stage, closeup, whatever it is, whatever you’re trying to market and your name a the biggest things on that business. Graeme Reed: Yeah. And probably if you’re gonna throw a, not clip art per se, but associated graphics on there, right. A don’t do a top hat want and rabbit and less like that’s your signature piece that you do. But yeah, Ryan Joyce: you’d have to be a really good designer. Do include those without it making oh, cheesy. So just steer away from, Graeme Reed: yeah, but so I just put, there’s playing cards stuff on mine cause you’re seeing me do close to magic, most likely when you get this thing or I’ve done card stuff and I think cards really with me, a little generic I guess. But I’ve chosen specific images every colored than myself. So they look graphically interesting and everything like that. But I do know like there’s some people like going back to Scott Boyd, he has really adapted tiny plunger into a full stage routine. And I think that plunger is almost like that’s his, that’s his sceptre now. Right, right. And I think he could take advantage of that in his branding or something like that. Does he ever promo shot with the I dunno. I Dunno. That’s a great question. That’d be something we should talk about on the future show to is promo shots and how to take a good one. Right. That’s definitely a great idea. And and websites do these, I mean these are all great topics for magicians cause they are like what do you have to include in yourself to market yourself? You got to have a business, got on a website and a video and if you had the business guy you got to have the website. Yep. Boy It’s pointless. Yeah. Yeah. Cause really you just get it. Most people I find because the business card is kept for years on end, I was contacted by someone just recently, two years ago. They haven’t business guide and they still contacted me. So that’s, that’s pretty remarkable. But I know people usually will go through my website to contact me through email now and I don’t always get a direct call of like, hey are you available this weekend? A lot of people are doing email now I think. And I like to communicate because I thought, I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Like why do I, why is it easier to just to chat to multiple, cause you can hold multiple conversations at once. It gives you a quick second to think about it and reply instead of when you’re on the phone, you have to dedicate like what we’re doing right now, we’re dedicated to each other talking. Right? So like if I were to pick up the phone, I’m going to kill this conversation and do that. And what’s that again? Right. But when you’re chatting or there’s email, you see that history and you’re like, oh, that’s weird. Okay. And you can respond pretty quickly and it’s all about multitasking in 2019 yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s Sandy. I feel like I’m, we’re, I’m sure a lot of magicians probably have their own Facebook page. Right? Do they connect with people like through the messaging? Is that something that they allow? I would be curious to know whatever the people do. I don’t, I don’t have like the people can message of course, but you can have it so that direct message in and it’s promoted heavily by Facebook that you know, contact me. They do do, do any of that. I, I don’t, I wonder if I should be, I feel like I should. Maybe I wonder if it depends on the industry magic you’re in. I mean you’re, you’re, you’re doing touring shows and, and cruise ships so you’re, you’re not gonna really get, I think if, if you’re a party magician maybe, right. You didn’t. Kit shows accessibility. You want to have that instant communication with, you know, who’s going to book the party most likely a mom or a dad. I figure if you’re, if your goal is just to be as accessible as possible, right? Yeah. That just is, yeah. Any way, any way, shape or form that suits your marketing style because everyone’s going to be different and I believe the best bay where to play place to focus is the skillset that you have. It’s best, right? Don’t just imagine all of a sudden you’re going to be amazing person sales on the phone, you know, overnight. It’s a tough game in a sales is tough. And did you read any sales books? Do you follow any sales people when you’re, how do you approach that? Well, cause I’m, I’ve been diving into this recently. Newish, right? Like I’ve always done magic and I’ve always performed shows, but I’ve recently gotten like more full time than friends. This is like what I do. So I’ve had to tackle all these business things. I haven’t, I’m a podcast guy, so I’ll do a podcast sometimes and I don’t know the names of these podcasts because I just dip in and at tap sets. I know a variety artist podcast, right. Has some great insights, discourse and discourse. Imagine Abrams. Yeah. Jenny Abrams, Jonas podcast, discourse and magic. They’re like, a couple of years ago, Chris Shepherd had successful performer podcasts, which had really great interviews on there and everything. The magic word, the magic word. Scott Wells. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all those have in all, those are great episodes that, I mean that’s all the information you need really. Um, Ryan Joyce: what is, what does everybody listen to or what do you guys listen to? Web podcasts. I have a couple other ones that I listened to her, but businessy wise, they’re usually short. I mean there’s a couple of ones I’ve listened to just for fun, the history ones and I won’t ramble about those, but um, Neil Patel seems to have some really great things that I fall. It’s really short size, usually SEO based. Um, there’s really great marketing stuff there, but that’s not in the magicians world. It’s more on, on just content, right? We really have to have a lot of tool tools in the, in the kit, don’t we? Graeme Reed: Yeah. And there’s even, there’s guys starting up all these little Facebook, these micro Facebook groups on specific, uh, unique. Oh, that’s great avenues. So I know this guy, I met Zeltser, he’s doing the, this party planning think tank. So like, you know, kids, entertainers, a lot of back and forth. Everyone’s talking about the same. Yeah, everyone’s in the same market. And then also Danny Orleans has started trade show performer groups. So he’s trying to, he’s starting a course on trade show performance and everything, but all these groups, I think they’re important to join because there’s so many little t just like magic, right? You read all the magic books cause you might find that little nugget of information that you didn’t know about before that you could apply to some other trick. All of these, all of these groups have different business tactics and we’re, all of us magicians especially today are all representing yourselves differently. Right? We have different shows that we do and some guys may just be a wedding guy. I’m pretty, I do a lot of things I guess. Um, so you learn a lot of these different tactics and they totally apply across the board. Ryan Joyce: Yeah. You can apply them to promoting the show from earning yourself from running events. I mean it’s, that’s the thing is once you know the skill sets, it is something you can use it anywhere. Graeme Reed: Right? Right. I even spent a little bit of time analyzing like a Shopify store. Oh yeah. Like when the Shopify kit kind of happened and the handle and figuring out that and from, there’s a lot of guys on youtube that just talk Shopify, a lot of it’s Jive, but you can learn these advertising techniques and maybe not do them at skeezy. Right. They do it for realsies annual, you’ll actually see benefits like, and it’s just natural stuff like simple things like returning comments and replying to comments and things Ryan Joyce: I’m dealing with that we should feature on a future episode cause I’m going viral and, and getting all these comments. And some of them are, Graeme Reed: some of them are nice. Yeah. Some of them. Some of them. So since you’ve been going viral, you must be experiencing like negative comments a little bit. Just a little bit, yeah. Ryan Joyce: Yeah. The I, yeah. And so how do you deal with it? And so to the topic at hand is I, I’m trying to respond to some of them, but I have, I’ve got a service called to buddy and it allows you to have like pre, you know, written responses. And so I just there and wrote a couple of like generic, I’m sorry you didn’t like it. Kind of like basic, just make it simple and brush them off kind of a thing. Because I read something that I thought was good advice about how to deal with negative comments and that was you replied to them and if they reply back to you then they’re trolling. Right. Oh that’s a good point. That makes sense. Cause if he responded and you responded nicely, if they were real deal person, they’re getting ready. Right. They’ll just be like, oh I feel a little bad maybe. Right. So let’s change everything. I thought that was a good way to look at negative comments. I’ll pluck, I’ll pluck some of my favorite ones out for future. Graeme Reed: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s really shitty. They kind of cool in. Yeah. Pool and I don’t, and I don’t, they don’t affect Ryan Joyce: to me at all. Like I don’t add that me as a different me than like I don’t have, I’m not, I have no sense of the Vigo on that front. Like it’s the idea that performer that good comments and bad comments just don’t really take them in. And I mean your your best editor in anything, right. It’s a crucial have to take in feedback. Of course, if you see that every single comments is the same thing and it’s weighted in a certain direction of course take that, you know, advice. But advice taking is its own art. Yeah. Because everyone is so free to give it right. But nobody has actually backing and experienced to justify a lot of their words usually. So always trust who you’re taking your advice from. Don’t just open. I made that mistake early on. I asked everybody for their advice. Oh yeah, yeah. Everybody. And after shows, you know and just oh yeah, what didn’t you like it, you know, except, but really it boiled down to only a handful of people that actually trusted what they had to say. I listened to. But I mean you have to listen to people’s advice. You have to at least be willing to accept it. Otherwise you’ll just forever be that one single place in time. I think I’m complete opposite cause I remember I was always like, I guess a nervous and afraid to present magic, especially in front of other magicians. And then with like she has like news trick in the book. Um, they gave some opportunities I could go perform in front of like real magicians and things like that. And then you start to share more. And I think it’s important to have a close group of circle agreed friends in the same industry that you’re in so you can share ideas. Um, but maybe I find a, I don’t know is that I still don’t always ask for advice, but I know like sometimes you’ll just tell me something Graeme Reed: which is also bad. No, no, no. I like, I like when you’ll notice there’s something Ryan Joyce: you, you let me know. That means it’s important because you brought it up right. Or, uh, Peter, many will do the same thing. Um, and all the guys you perform with all the time always cover friendship that we understand. Yeah. It’s a safe space to give her advice at any point. Right? Totally. Yeah. Cause I mean it’s important. We you, you’ve got to grow and you’ve got to accept that. But, and it’s hard to swallow advice sometimes. Yeah. Cause I mean you’re, these are all the people that see you on the outside, but that’s why advice is a little bit helpful because right. You’re emotionally attached to it. Yeah. Sometimes we’re trying to be something that we’re not. So yeah, Andy, you can’t see that when you’re looking through the scope of your own eyes. You have to really have a second opinion from someone that isn’t emotionally connected to it. And My, Tim, my buddy Tim Drake was that person. He was always the one that I would go and still do, go to for like we call it a water bottle moment and he has a specific story about it. But it was essentially some silly tasks that I was contemplating, which was ridiculous. And he hit me over the head with an empty water bottle. But it was a, it was a, it was like a, it was so appropriately down where it was like on the lean in and everything. And then it was so, um, we call those moments for right. And sometimes you need those because you are so in our own little little world of dream, like fantasy and illusion. I don’t know why I’ve been doing this a that I produce a full pint of beer from a paper bag and that trick can start like that. It started off as a danger trick. Right? Dangerous done. But like through the advice from you and conversations with you, it changed because we went on to gather and I got to perform at a bunch and that trick has changed so much. That’s great. Sorry, I have a two bags and it was like a psychological force thing. Right? And now it’s just a fun little is an opener. It’s an opener. Right. And we should talk about openers as well in the future because that’s, that’s now yours. That’s your bit, right? Right. Yeah. So that’s really great. And it’s, it’s fun to see it progress. The little detail you had this last week was nice. Yeah. That’s another maybe conversation we’ve got to have about ethics of magic because relating, even back to what you said, we’re in just a few moments ago, we’re in this weird spot with magic where ethics is always been so guarded. Like everyone’s been so afraid to show their own work because there’s so much theft of ideas and now we’re in this space where we’re living in a world that’s all about sharing. Everything is shared. Well, I think there’s a unique thing now where people know who cause there’s so much sharing now people know who they originated. Your lesbian, right? So a small group of people attack the other people that copied. Right. I know West Parker talks about this. He, he just records their stage show and we’ll release it in small little segments online because why not you? You really want people to see your stuff. Right? So which assess my like he gets it. Yeah. It’s, I still fear this immensely. Uh, be well things especially like they have no show. Like I, I have that out there pretty much in full entirety except the beginning part. The induction and things. Mainly because it’s not interesting. Um, I mean really there’s no pizazz in the induction, but ah, the magic show I don’t because I’ve got a couple of elements in there that are unique to me and I don’t, I don’t want them to be taken. So I do, I feel that pain. But at the same time, um, would you ever release these things and then create something new and then let that one go? Yeah, there’s definitely that side of it for sure. I’ve also, he’s faced, cause I, uh, Graeme Reed: I always look close to magic and I start doing comedy clubs and to get work on stage. Right. That’s how I get my stage time in. Yeah. And it is the weirdest bit of business. I remember first going up in the comedy club doing like a purchase routine. Okay. And you feel gross because you know everybody there are, you’re assuming everybody there is written their own material and created their own stuff. I don’t know if they’re copying, you never know that stuff, but you’re in that environment where everyone is really trying to be their own and create their own voice and everything. So I think it’s so weird to me, you see routine and it’s being advertised, it has the perfect script, right? Like that’s not, that shouldn’t be the selling point of the script. It should be the, uh, the effect and like the journey of the story of the effect and make your own script for these things. I mean, like, and when you’re first starting a magic copy of the script, get the muscle, build the muscle, but you really, if you’re gonna start presenting yourself on public, you have to, uh, Ryan Joyce: it’s true. You’ve got to have your own voice, otherwise you’ll just be your competitor. Right? And so the only way to be unique is to be you. And it’s hard at first be like you said it, because at the beginning it’s all about like, there’s technique involved with this reality that you’ve got to entertain a whole group of people. And that’s a lot of, there’s a lot of mental space. So at the beginning it’s just about being effective at doing the magician task for you though. Like you just operate in Indian. Yeah. But I mean, at the beginning it was so terrible, right? I mean we all are. And it was just about the flight time. I just happened to get a chance to be able to do a big show, an hour and a half. I got a chance to do it a lot. And so that ultimately led to where I am at now, which is essentially have a 45 minutes solo show that I do a lot. Um, but at the beginning it was really just we, you know, it was a full production. We had to think about intermission and there was two dancers and the lighting and audio and that world doesn’t exist anymore. But it, yeah, it helped prepare for a little bit more of what’s current, which is about living out of a suitcase, create magic to, to, to wow as big as possible, but be as travel friendly. That’s, I think the goal now is in magic, isn’t it? With those fancy business cards. We printed vista print. Graeme Reed: Yeah. I think that’s, do we get a discount on vista print now because we plugged him so much? I think we should, but we should. Yeah. Yeah. An extra 20% off. Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Joyce: It’s fun to think about those things too, because they show giveaways. I loved all that stuff. Anything branded that you could give away that was Graeme Reed: no straight. I mean, when I started adding these kinds of cards into my show, yeah. Mind reading studies, I liked that. The clipboard with the just paper and I use the show cards, uh, with my show logo on it or whatever. Just my name. And that’s a good giveaway. Yeah. Right. It’s right from the show and it’s the prediction thing. So that all fits in. I think that’s fine. Then it’s close to magic. We talked about it to souvenir and the Ryan Joyce: previous episodes. Right. Um, it’s always important to give away those giveaways and things, right? Yeah. It’s something that they’ll leave and they’ll, you’re guaranteed that they’ll talk about you. Yeah, that’s what, that’s what the souvenir does. I even used the line all the time. It looks really great on a fridge. Oh, that’s nice. I like that. You’re going to steal it. Yeah. Someone’s going to steal it. I’m going to need to ever talk about ethics. Graeme Reed: Yeah. All right. Yeah, that’s pretty good. Round up of all sorts of discussions I think for this episode. What would you say? Yeah, I think that’s a, that’s a solid week in magicians talking magic. Right? And next one we’ll talk about websites. That’s, that’s a topic all on its own. We might have taken a couple of topics for these fan saints, maybe openers or something. Openers would be good. Yeah. Magic News. We’ll keep you up to date. So if you guys think of anything that you want to hear us talk about, right? If something’s pressing or you want to get our perspective on it, comment and let us know. Email us, dms, phone us. Uh, tell us Ryan Joyce: telepathy. That’s I just said, my name is Ryan Joyce and I said, my name is. We’ll see on the next episode. Thank you for listening to this episode of magicians talking magic. It’s been a blast to be here with you. My name is Ryan Joyce. Don’t forget, we have all of the links and videos and resources available in the show page, which [email protected] this week is a big week. This is magic live happening. I’m not able to go this year, but last year I attended and I got a chance to chat with a great number of missions from fronters who are already gay, Blackstone, David, Ben Lawrence, Matt King, and Richard Wiseman. I asked them all one question and that is, should magic be considered? Are there answers and responses in video form are [email protected] so go check those out. I think you’ll find some of their responses. Interesting. Franz Harare for me was definitely the most fascinating and the most poignant, so I’d love to see what you think. Let your, let me know your responses in the comments. All right, lots to come on the next episode where we really sing and next Friday, so stayed tuned. This has been Ryan Joyce for magicians talking magic stay magic. Okay.