Overcoming Anxiety Naturally | Podcast #226

Overcoming Anxiety Naturally | Podcast #226

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey Evan, it’s Dr.
J here in the house, how are you doing today? Evan Brand: Hey man, good morning! We’re- we’re a bright and early today for
this. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we’re trying
to get our podcast in earlier just to free at time in our schedules to get other things
done, so I think it’s great. We’re gonna be trying to be uh chatting weekly
at 8:AM CST, 9:00 AM Eastern Time. So I’m really excited to be here with you,
it’s a phenomenal weekend, the weather- it’s this time of year it’s just absolutely amazing. How is it where you’re at? Evan Brand: Oh, man, it’s been magical too,
it rained for like 48 hours straight, and then, all the sudden, the clouds break up
and the sun comes out and the birds are singing and the grass is green and it’s growing so
fast now, so, I can’t complain. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great man,
excellent. Well today we talk about in our pre-show,
we were texting yesterday or the weekend about doing a podcast on anxiety, and I think we
can- we can just dive right in. So, off the bat, when it comes to anxiety,
let’s just kinda touch upon your personal issue with the mold. So we’ve talked about mold and environmental
stressors, potentially creating histamine responses, and then creating mood issues. Why don’t we go into your experience with
the mold that the mycotoxins and your anxiety? Evan Brand: Yeah, I- I had for the last 6
months to a year, I’ve had random little spurts where I was having heart palpitations, and
some of that was related to my cavitations. I did that podcast with Dr. Stewart Nunnally
my surgeon- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Evan Brand: -who cut me open and cleaned out-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: -all my 8 cavitations, but that
was a huge source of heart palpitations. But after the heart palpitations disappeared,
I still had some anxiety. I’d have these random blood pressure spikes,
and I’d hit you up, and say, “Dude, what’s going on, my blood pressure, I don’t know”,
and now I figured it out. It’s related to mycotoxins because what mold
does when you’re exposed, if you’re living in a moldy house or uh apartment, or a condo,
or you work in a moldy office, or you’re a librarian, and you’re working around moldy
books, mycotoxins prevent nitric oxide production from working properly, and you need nitric
oxide to help with your vasodilation. And so, you basically have a constriction
of everything which is why my hands and feet have been so cold too is because, nitric oxide
is getting blocked by mycotoxins, and so, when I take my detox supplements, whether
it’s binders, or supplements like chlorella, I noticed my hands and my feet will warm up
and then all the sudden, I’ll feel better, I’ll get more energy, my anxiety just disappears. So I can’t say that this is the only trigger. We do wanna talk about blood sugar and some
of the diet pieces too. But I’ll tell you just personal-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Evan Brand: -experience, I’ve had all the
adrenal stuff dialed in. I’ve had all the blood sugar stuff dialed
in, and I still had anxiety issues, and it was all tied into mycotoxins. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But it was better
than if you didn’t have the- that stuff dialed in. Evan Brand: Oh, yeah, if I- I mean, if I-
if I was not taking daily adrenal supplements, and if I were skipping meals, or not eating
enough fat, I would probably be a wreck. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we kinda look
at your history like these problems like, you have problems in the past, right, before
you kinda got into this field. You had that dialed in, you were better, and
then along came the mold mycotoxins stress years later, and then that kinda brought things
back to a head again, is that true? Evan Brand: It is, yeah, ’cause, when I was
living in Austin and I was packing up- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: -moving back to Kentucky, I mean,
we’re calling you like dude, “I’m having a anxiety attack, I can’t control it”, that
was all adrenals. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: I mean, I was- I was literally
working with clients on top of a cardboard box with my laptop, ready to pack up and drive
2000 miles across country. So that was more situational anxiety. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I remember that too,
there was a lot of blood sugar issues too, I think you are going like 8 hours without
eating, and I think we made a couple of blood sugar tweaks that helped a lot. Evan Brand: Yeah, I was probably going like
maybe 5 hours which is just too much for me. Now I can’t do that anymore. And so-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also to remember the end of your day, I think there was just a
big gap between when you had dinner when you went to bed. I think you were like eating at 5:00PM, going
to bed like at 10:00 and then like not having your breakfast until like 10:00AM the next
day. Evan Brand: Yeah, it was a long time, and
I was like 5 hours. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You was like a 15,
16-hour gap. But you know, that kinda like an intermittent
fasting kind of gap but, for some people, that could be a little bit of a blood sugar
stressor because when we go and utilize gluconeogenesis, that’s cortisol dependent. We will forget the gluconeogenesis which is
fine, it’s normal, but it’s cortisol dependent. And we don’t quite have enough cortisol or
adrenals or a little bit taxed, we may not be able to enter into those processes, uhm,
optimally. So that’s something that the he’s mind. Evan Brand: And I did not have enough cortisol,
I did my salivary adrenal- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, I remember that,
it was low. Evan Brand: -it was very low. It wasn’t like completely burned out, I wouldn’t
call it adrenal fatigue, but I was at the bottom end of the barrel there without being
under the low end of the reference range. My cortisol sum was maybe like a 12, anything
below a 10 is terrible and I was like a 12. So I was barely hanging in there with adrenals. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So, kinda key things to think about, I want
people listening to- to think about the underlying mechanism. What’s the mechanism of why you’re feeling
the way you’re feeling? This is important because a lot of times,
when you’re going to the conventional doctor, really, the underlying mechanism is not addressed. Typically, there’s the genetic predisposition,
genetics like victimization-type of mindset where like we don’t know what it is, err-
here the- here’s this drug. So people don’t really connect the dots to
the cause, right? So we’re tryna trace everything upstream to
the cause. So, if we look at the toxicity mechanism,
there is this potential inflammation from the toxicity which then may create histamine,
and that histamine can easily create issues with vasodilation by blocking uh nitric oxide,
is that correct? Evan Brand: Yup. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna make sure I say it right, so I- I get it confused. There’s laughing gas which I think is nitrous
oxi- nitrous oxide, and then nitric oxide is NO, NO, right? Evan Brand: Yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]
Evan Brand: Yeah, nitrous. I believe the nitrous oxide, I believe that’s
fully different, I’m just gonna type in nitrous oxide, versus nitric… Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, one was- one
was the laughing gas anesthetic, and then the other one, I think it’s NO. Evan Brand: Yeah, NO and then I think it’s
N- is it N2O, let’s see. Nitric oxide is NO, it’s not the same as nitrous
oxide, N2O. Nitric oxide is one molecule of nitrogen,
one molecule of nit- uh, oxygen. Nitrous, has 2 molecules of nitrogen and one
of oxygen, that extra molecule changes the gas completely. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, exactly. So, NO, we’re talking about, not the laughing
gas, when you can go see your dentist, and you make a lot of this. And now, one other thing that decreases nitric
oxide, NO, is gonna be fructose. Lot of fructose, lot of carbohydrate, this
is the one of the major mechanisms behind high blood pressure and extra fructose, and
extra sugar, primarily in the form of fructose, right? But that’s gonna decrease endothelial synthase
or endothelial uhm, synthase which it helps open up. It’s the enzyme that help with nitric oxide
stimulation. Nitric oxide opens up blood vessel. So imagine we’ve got this garden hoses on
the side of our neck called our carotids, and these essential garden hoses, if constricted,
decreases blood flow to the frontal cortex, which then decreases nutrition, decreases
oxygenation, decreases the ability for us to calm down inflammation, and that can manifest
itself in depression. And today’s podcast topic is gonna be anxiety. So, very easily there. Evan Brand: Yeah, you could have anxiety just
from drinking soda and eating pop tarts. I went over to my mother-in-law’s-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Evan Brand: -and she still has pop tarts in
her pantry. I’m like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my God. Evan Brand: -“What the heck is a pop tart?”,
so I look at- you know, I ate that as a kid, so I look at-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: -the ingredient list, and there’s
like 3 different types of corn syrup in there, it’s like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my God. Evan Brand: -corn syrup- it’s like corn syrup
solids which is guess what, that’s fructose, you’ve got high fructose corn syrup, so-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right. Evan Brand: -small fructose-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Evan Brand: -and then you got like uh another-
another corn syrup added in there somewhere- somewhere. On- and then on top of that is, you’ve got
enriched wheat and uh, there was some like BHT and bunch of other preservatives in, I
mean, so people say, “Oh, well, I- I’m not drinking soda”, but if you’re eating pop tarts,
that’s just as bad, you’re still getting high fructose corn syrup, I mean, high fructose
corn syrups’ in every process thing ever. You go to the restaurant, you go get a grass
fed burger, and you get sweet potato fries, well, then you do the standard ketchup on
the table, that ketchup is high fructose corn syrup. So, then you’re in the same boat again. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. And then we don’t even talk it about. You know, the high fructose corn syrup primarily
comes from corn, so it’s not organic, you’re getting glyphosate which is roundup residue. And then also there’s some that a lot of the
processing of high fructose corn syrup conventionally, involves a mercury preservatives. Then there’s potential mercury exposure that
you’re getting too. So you have mercury and around up, and then,
uhm, then you have the inflammation by the de- by decreasing the uhm- the nnn- nitric
oxide which vasodilates. So we have a couple of different mechanisms
that are really throwing us downhill. Evan Brand: Yeah, people are saying, “Okay,
why are you on a tangent about ketchup and high fructose corn syrup? How does this relate to anxiety?”. Well, because it’s creating inflammation,
and the inflammation makes your blood pressure go up. When your blood pressure goes up, you feel
anxious. You can feel flush, you can feel-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Evan Brand: -like your throat is closing,
you can feel chest tightness, you can get tremors-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Evan Brand: -or palpitations like, when your
blood pressure is up, trust me, I’ve had different personal experience, it does not feel good
to have high blood pressure. Even if-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Evan Brand: – it’s just temporary. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Evan Brand: Oh, you mentioned the- the life
stress too, like the cortisol piece. So cortisol is a big issue with anxiety. You and I have tested thousands of people
at this point, we’ve seen high cortisol and low cortisol, both can cause anxiety. So that’s why it’s important to test, not
guest, because you may look at someone’s case history and it may sound like, “Oh, my God,
this person…”- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: -“…gotta have high cortisol”. But then you test it, and they’re just flatlined. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, uhm, very-very important. So, if you look at the diet and lifestyle
stressors, that’s a big component. Of course, emotional stress is gonna be a
big one. What’s happening with emotional stress? Typically, we’re having surges of cortisol
and adrenaline. Right? And of course, What’s adrenaline gonna do? Adrenaline does cause vasoconstriction, it
tends to shut blood flow to the arms and legs to run, fight and flee. So it’s primarily going here for prehistoric
survival mechanism, and it tends to be going away from the brain, because you need parasympathetic
function to have good blood flow to the in- to the internal organs in the brain. So you’re gonna have less to the brain, and
that’s part of the reason why when you’re stressed, and you have over sympathetic, over
cortisol, over adrenaline, you tend to have a less blood flow to the brain, and that’s
why people make uhm a lot of poor decisions when they’re stressed. There was- I was reading a study at one point
when they talked about uh a lot of violent criminals in jail, that a lot of violent criminal
episodes have been made where in a hypoglycemic state by the criminal. So-
Evan Brand: Wow. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -essentially with
that, your frontal cortex has about, I think it’s like, 25 or 20 milliseconds to shut down
and impulse. So like, you see someone like that walks by
that like, really, bugs you, you’re- you kinda think, I wanna get them, well then your frontal
cortex goes nope, not- not a good idea. So when you have that decreased frontal cortex
activation, which could be decrease from cortisol and blood sugar and stress, then you’re gonna
have that inability to not- to not uhm dampen down that impulse. Evan Brand: Well think about, I mean, I just
saw a video couple weeks ago of a prisoner who was like sitting in like a courtroom,
and he goes up and he just like smacks the lady in the head. One of the ladies is like standing, like testifying,
he goes up and smacks her in the head and then he immediately just sits down like he
realizes, “Oh, my God, what did I just do?”. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Evan Brand: The prisoner diet, I mean, their
diet is terrible. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, I mean, if
we were really were interested in this society, uhm, rehabilitating prisoners uh, you’d start
with nutrition. I mean, I would’ve go in there number 1, and
involve cri- uh, I’d have criminals working on a farm, producing all their own foods,
so society didn’t have to pay for it, number 1. And then number 2, get the nutrition up. It’s impossible to rehabilitate someone with
very poor uh, brain function from amino acids or good healthy fats. They done studies before, I’ve- it was uh,
in the food connection book, and they talked about adding omega 3’s in the prison. And then helping to decrease the violence
rate in the cri- in the prisons like significantly. So-
Evan Brand: I’ve read that. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -fatty acids are very
important for anxiety and mood and behavior function because number 1, your brain’s primarily
fat. It’s 70% saturated fat and cholesterol. But omega 3 fatty acids are very anti-inflammatory. So if we have inflammation and going on in
the brain, we have surges of cortisol, right, we have blood sugar fluctuations, we have
our microglial cells in the brain are activated, these are our immune cells in the brain, they’re
gonna be activated when inflammation is going on, whether it’s from foods or stress, and
good omega 3 fatty acids, anti-inflammatory fats like omega 3s from DHEA and EPA, these
are 20 and 22 carbon chain of fat- fatty acids are very anti-inflammatory. Evan Brand: A lot of people are against fish
or they just simply don’t do enough high-quality fish. So like in- we use triglyceride form fish
oil- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Evan Brand: -we work with professional health
care companies. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Evan Brand: -that’s a product that you may
wanna have in your tool box if you don’t already. Don’t just go to ___[13:22] and buy their
fish oil and assume that’s gonna be good enough, it’s not, they’re using ethyl ester form
which is where they attach an alcohol molecule to the fish oil, your liver has to process
that. If your products smells fishy, if you have
fish burps, throw it away, rancid by with Justin’s product or by my product. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Evan Brand: Because we wanna get you on a
high-quality fish oil for your brain. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And if you’re consuming fish 3 to 4 servings
of fish a week is great, even if you’re pregnant, just really- just focus on high selenium to
mercury ratio fish. So your wild Alaskan sockeye, your Cod, your
haddock, your skipjack tuna, these are gonna have a higher amount of selenium to mercury,
and that will help essentially uhm bind up any mercury that maybe there. And if you’re on a fence and you’re doing
sushi, you can always do things like some activated charcoal, things like that, just
to be on the safe side. Evan Brand: Oh, by the way, I bought a TV
for the first time in ten years. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, wow! Evan Brand: And uh, it was because I wanted
to watch the new documentary called “Our Planet”- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. Evan Brand: -tune in Netflix with David Attenborough,
and uh, I was looking at some, I mean, our ocean is basically screwed, but uh hopefully
we can turn it around. But he was s- showing some of the Bluefin
tuna which are like a- almost all the fisheries are being overfished and the whole ocean’s
collapsing because we’re overfishing. They were talking about some of this tuna
that could be 1000 pounds. It’s like no wonder they’re so toxic with
mercury, they’re a thousand pounds. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I hundred percent agree. But uhm, yeah, it’s really important stuff. I’m glad you found the other TV man, I mean,
I don’t watch TV outside a couple of Netflix show, I mean, right now, I mean, I watch Game
of Thrones last night, that was, man, that is my show right now. Love it. Evan Brand: I- I’ve never checked it out. But I’ll have to, but people should watch
that “Our Planet” because it is- you should watch it too, it’s amazing-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: -it really- it- it really says,
“Hey look, like, we’ve got a lot of issues, there’s still some beautiful stuff left on
planet Earth, but, we’ve really gotta turn things around and, I- I think with our podcast,
we’re helping to turn things around from an ecological perspective because we’re encouraging
people to get local meats and pastured meats, and we’re trying to turn away from the conventionally
factory farmed animals which are creating a lot of damage to the water table and to
the soil, and, you know, buying local beef. Because if you go to the grocery store now,
you’re gonna see grass fed from Brazil, and they’re cutting down the rainforest in the
Amazon to grow uh, soybean and also they raise cattle for grass fed beef. And so, you wanna make sure you’re not buying
Brazilian grass fed beef, and you can get it locally, it’s so easy. And then also, with your palm oils. So like if you do snacks like plantains like
I do, I love plantain chips or plantain strips. Make sure your palm oil is a certified palm
oil, so it’s sustainable and you’re not cutting down the Orangutan, their forest in Indonesia,
they’re critically endangered now because of us. Cutting down there, uh, you’ll see it too
in the- in the documentary where they just clear cut native rainforest and they’ve replaced
it with just a mono culture of palm, uh, palm trees that- that for the palm oil. And so, you know, even look at Doritos like
you look at the- a back of a bag of Doritos, even Doritos are contributing to deforestation
because the palm oil, it’s in there. It’s not sustainably certified. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So, I mean, what’s the solution is? Okay, ’cause, we need palms, so, or you cut
it down just- just plant it as you cut it essentially? Evan Brand: Well, the- the goal is just to
have sustainable farm. And so, I don’t know exactly what the- I think
it’s called RSPO, there’s a whole organization that goes in and certifies them, I don’t know
if that means they’re helping to protect other land like if they buy a thousand acres, they
only, you know, grow palm oil on half of it, I- I’m not sure of like what they’re doing,
but I do know that when you see an RSPO certification, it’s gonna say, “Hey, this is a certified
sustainable…”- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: “…source” of palm oil. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’ve seen a
lot of articles on these types of topics, they talk about, like the- the- the number
1 way you can fix a lot of these things, is you don’t rent these lands to corporations,
you have the corporations buy it. Even the corporation buys the land they have
a more- s- a stake in the land to keep it solvent so it can produce more product in
the future, right? Whatever that there is, right? So, if you- if I buy a land to cut trees,
I’m more likely to then replant all the trees so I have more trees to cut in the future. But if I’m just renting it, think about how
you treat your car if you’re renting it versus it’s your car. Evan Brand: Oh yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve seen some articles
on that type of uh, topic from a root cause perspective ’cause you treat things differently
when you own it, when you have a stake in it. Evan Brand: Absolutely. You hit a big pothole in the road, alright,
“Oop, it’s a rental, so what?”. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a rental- right,
it’s the same thing when it- when you just have- I- I have logging rights for 10 years
in this area. I’m just gonna wipe it clean, it’s not my
property, I don’t have to worry about it, right? Evan Brand: Yup. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s kind of a mindset. So, uh I think we start first by decreasing
the pesticides in the environment, and the glyphosate, number 1, and then number 2, the
mono-culture stops. And if you don’t have the conventional GMO
crap and the high fructose corn syrup, that’s where all the corn, and the grain, and the
GMOs are primarily coming from. So if you just go organic, you’re gonna totally
support more local sustainable farming and it’s gonna be in this monoculture formats,
putting tons of pesticides, tons of glyphosate, and that’s affecting runoff in our water too. And how does this connect back, well, it’s
gonna connect back ’cause it’s a stressor, it’s- it’s inflammatory to the brain. And a lot of times the glyphosate and a lot
of these pesticides can affect the brain as to the gut. Because what they can do is, if you look at
Stephanie ___[18:40] at MIT it’s gonna decrease that brush border where you produce enzymes. It’s gonna make the gut more permeable and
more leaky, and that leaky gut is gonna allow more stuff in your gut to get into your bloodstream
like endotoxin which is lipopolysaccharide from bad bacteria, it’s gonna allow undigested
food particles to get into that bloodstream, that’s gonna activate the immune system, that’s
gonna create more gle- microglial activation in the brain which is gonna create cognitive
issues, brain fog, mood related issues. So, anytime we look at the brain, whether
it’s anxiety, which what we’re focusing on today. Any inflammation in the gut can then drive
inflammation in the brain. Inflammation in the brain manifests in these
mood-related issues. Evan Brand: Yup. When I had- oh, and by the way, Vietnam banned
glyphosate. So, good job Vietnam. Uh, I had major anxiety when I had gut infections,
and so, my anxiety is much better, but then it was caused from another- another mechanism,
right? So, fixing the gut was critical for me to
fix my anxiety. Now we could- we probably should do a part
2 on this, ’cause, I mean, we could spend an hour just on omegas and probiotics and
restoring gut health but- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Evan Brand: -we haven’t even got into talking
about like, uhm, relora, and ashwagandha, and holy basil, and, uh, sensory deprivation
tanks, and massage, and acupressure, and acupuncture, and essential oils, and, uh, gaba and- and
pharma GABA and theanine and, and uh, lemon balm, and I mean there’s so much to cover
with this anxiety conversation but, I’m glad that we disco- we- we discuss all of these
major critical pieces first like restoring their- your brain health, making sure you’ve
got good omegas, testing and fixing any cortisol issues, avoiding glyphosate so you’re not
killing off your good bacteria and promoting bacterial overgrowth because if we just skip
straight ahead to the magic pill like your theanine and your GABA, well then people aren’t
gonna listen to the first part. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. We wanna make sure the- the biochemistry and
the underlying physiology makes sense. If you- if you- that makes sense, we can plug
and play various supplements, various diet or lifestyle strategies to helping to affect
the root cause. Evan Brand: Yeah. So we’ll do a part 2. Let’s do a part 2 on anxiety later because
I think that we can do a whole hour just on how you use specific remedies, like I’ve got
a whole timing to adaptogens, like I may do, you know, ashwagandha more towards the evening
to help kinda calm down and settle at night versus I may go holy basil in the morning
to stimulate. So there could be a full circadian rhythm
to your supplementation as well. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And of course, movement has a huge effect. Apparently, I think, mo- movement is gonna
help because you’re producing various beta endorphin which has anti-depressant qualities
to it. And beta endorphin is- is a 19 uhm amino acid
compound. So there’s 19 amino acids that make up beta
endorphin. So you need protein to make it, okay, uh number
1. So movement is gonna help with that. I think movement also helps with insulin resistance
and insulin sensitivity. So it make yourselves more insulin-sensitive
and helps kinda soak up extra blood sugar. So if you have these glycemia issues, it’s
gonna help soak up that extra blood sugar that’s hangin’ around. And essen- essentially give you a bigger sponge,
A.K.A. bigger muscles, especially if you’re doing more resistance training and integral
training, it’s gonna give you bigger muscles to soak up extra blood sugar, as well which
is helpful. Evan Brand: That’s very cool. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: I’ve noticed, my blood sugar has
been on the lower end like I was- I actually- my wife let me uh prick her finger to check
her blood sugar which is good. We did like a grass fed steak, we did some
steamed broccoli with butter, and then we did a big sweet potato. So we have the same exact meal, we ate it
at the same exact time, and my blood sugar, within 45 minutes, we’ll call it 1 hour, after
that- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm. Evan Brand: -my blood sugar was already backed
down to an 80 and hers was [crosstalk]- and hers was a hundred. So I thought, hon, now of course she’s pregnant,
so maybe that has an effect [crosstalk], I thought, [crosstalk] blood sugar crashing
too quick, how am I already back down to an 80 one hour later and all I had was, you know,
I had a sweet potato. I thought for sure, it’d be above a hundred
still. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and just could
be that you’re really insulin-sensitive. And sometimes if you- if you do too much carbohydrate
for you, a lot of low blood sugar issues is from too much insulin. So if you stimulate too much insulin from
too much carbs, that can drop a but 80 I don’t think it’s that bad it. I would wanna see how 2 hours looked-
Evan Brand: Yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -and 3 hours looked
and to see if you kinda leveled out, and then how you felt too. Evan Brand: Yeah, I- I feel kinda low at-
at 80. Do you- do you track it all? What number you- you feel bad at ’cause I
mean, on the conversation of anxiety, like if I get a bout of anxiety and I feel kinda
shaky or irritable or nervous, uh, I’ll check my blood sugar and sometimes I’ll be at- maybe
a 70, maybe mid-70s, I’ll start to feel weird at that level. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s hard, right? Because what happens is, your faster your
blood sugar goes down, the faster adrenaline and cortisol is there to pick it up. So if your blood sugar is like this, and it’s
a slow arc- Evan Brand: Yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -and we’d take a picture
of it right here. That’s different than taking a picture of
it right there when you eat too much carbs and it’s coming down like this. So the steeper the angle is, the worse for
anxiety and mood. Because the steeper the angle, that means
you’re crashing at a faster rate, which means there’s more likely that you’re gonna have
adrenaline and cortisol lift you up. So the more it’s like this, then it’s kinda
tangentially coming down, less chance of cortisol and adrenaline to pick it back up. But if it’s coming like this and you grab
a snapshot there, then there’s more likely to be adrenaline and cortisol and you may
feel that. So when people say, you know, hypoglycemia
issues, you look in the Merck Manual. What does Merck say, oh well, you know, take
some sugar pills all this crap, that doesn’t fix the root cause of how the hell you got
there. Evan Brand: That’s right. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Cause how you got
there, we’re doing that exact same strategy, so what happens is, people that follow those
kinds of conventional medical advice for nutrition, they’re on this perpetual blood sugar rollercoaster
all the time almost. Evan Brand: Yeah, the people that like travel
with the glucose tablet you’re talking about, yeah, I’ll just eat some candy, let me eat
some skittles, okay, my blood sugar is fine now, I had skittles. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Does not fix any of the issues. Evan Brand: And see, I don’t do that. I don’t- I don’t do any processed sugars per
se, you know, I had like some blueberries with breakfast, uh, so, I’m just wondering-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk] what the heck is happening there? You already- you over- you overshoot your
blood sugar from too much carbohydrates and refined sugar, so you have a really steep
drop in your blood sugar, then it comes down, and then you’re like, “Oh, I’m gonna follow
the conventional medicine advice”, and so you come back up again, and then you keep
on doing these high and low peaks, and you keep on having the smooth it up with extra
carbs and sugar, versus kinda come in there like this, where you’re sneaking along, versus
falling off the cliff. Does that make sense? Evan Brand: Oh, absolutely. It’s a much- it’s- it- it’s- people don’t
understand, I mean, when we look at like you said, like violent crime in prisons, or we
look at car wrecks, or we look at people shooting each other, or we look at any big situation
happening where someone’s doing something stupid, I’d put a high amount of money on
the fact that it’s probably someone who’s on a conventional American diet, with a crazy
blood sugar pattern, and they’re hypoglycemic, you can’t think straight, trust me. My blood sugar is low, I had period where
I was like a 58 or a 60, I couldn’t think straight. I mean-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Evan Brand: -you literally can’t think straight
and make decisions. All you can think about is, “I gotta do something,
I gotta eat something”. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And, I’m doing some kinda hand gestations
here to kinda symbolize what’s happening with the blood sugars. If anyone’s listening to this on the podcast,
feel free and check below. You can access the video here too, so we’re-
we’re live on YouTube as well as Facebook to see that. Evan Brand: Well let’s- let’s wrap it up,
but I do wanna go one- one for the question for you, and how would you recommend approaching
that? So if you’re someone who, like me, you’re
away from refined carbohydrates, except I will do some organic white rice, I will do
some sweet potato, those are my starches of choice. Uh, so, in that situation, is it just more
adrenal support for me, is it just staying low carb for my breakfast and lunch, and only
doing the carbs at dinner like how would you say if I’m looking at glucose and I’m seeing
that I’m going back down to like a mid-70’s or an 80, and I wanna hang out around maybe
90, ’cause I feel better there, how would you- how would you achieve that, is it possible
to do that with just like fat and proteins? Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, number 1, I
think with- you’re a leaner dude, so I will first look at like what your activity levels
are for the day. If you’re not super active physically, then
I’d be focusing on more proteins and fats for- for your fuel source, and then, you know,
work on timing more your carbs later in the day. There’s some data that carb backloading, doing
carbs later in the day tends to be a little bit better. Again, there are other people- this is so
controversial, but I mean, there’s been research on it, people in the backloading carb community
kinda know that people tend to do better with carbs at night time, there’s some data where
people take their carbohydrates and they put all at the back end of the day, and then while
the control group does it throughout the day gradually, and there’s been better weight
loss, patterns doing it, like that at night, so there is that benefit. So, I would do more of the carbs at night,
and then I would keep more protein and fat as- as kinda your foundational base. Think of protein and fat as like logs in the
fire, so if you have a good fire, the logs from the fire gonna keep that fire burning
sustainably. The carbohydrates are gonna be like kindling
your twigs, and the more refined the carbohydrate, or the more high- higher glycemic index it
is, the more it’s like, it- it’s like gasoline or paper, right, it goes up faster. But if you have logs in that fire, that’s
gonna keep that fire burning long and strong versus if you just do paper twigs and gasoline,
you’re up and out. So, twigs and paper and gasoline is the, uhm,
too much refined sugar, not enough protein, fat, and then you have this up and down swings
of blood sugar. The logs in the fire are gonna be like the
high-quality protein in fat, and then we have to dial in the carbohydrates according to
your metabolic needs. Evan Brand: I need to check it act, I mean,
I like data, you and I both do. So, I need to just check- check and see… You- can my body take? Let’s say I do like a grass fed beef steak,
right, and it’s like, let’s just make something up, you know, 15 grams of fat and 15 grams
of protein. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Evan Brand: In theory, I should be able to
take that beef steak and convert that over to glucose, even though it’s primarily fat
and protein, correct? Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, you
will be able to do with some of that for sure. I mean, your brain know it needs about 20
grams of glucose today. So you won’t get a- a ton-
Evan Brand: Okay. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -of glucose out of
it, but yeah, you’ll get a little bit of glucose, via gluconeogenesis, and then you’re also
gonna get more ketones, right? And people that have- they’re higher in ketosis,
their blood sugar may go lower, but you gotta remember, their blood sugar can go little
bit lower because they have more- other fuel substrates in the bloodstream called ketones. So, they may be able to go lower. Where some is jackin’ the blood sugar up and
down, through a reactive hypoglycemia e- episode, right? Reactive is up, and then you’re reacting by
going down fast. It’s a steeper angle of that blood sugar dropping. You’re gonna have less ketones there because
you haven’t done the right things in your diet over a period of a couple days or weeks
to get in the ketosis, where you have more ketones. Uhm, a- anytime you’re surging insulin, you’re
gonna be not- you’re gonna be kicked out of ketosis, because you need lower insulin levels
to be making ketones. High insulin blocks ketosis. So for keeping our blood sugar under control,
and we’re kinda snaking along and not jacking our blood sugar up too high above a hundred
or 110, 120, then we’ll have more ketones, and therefore your blood sugar could drop
a little bit lower. But I even see some of this people that are
really doing a lot of ketogenic diets then they even go a little bit too long, and I’ve
seen people posting 50 and 60 for blood sugar range, that may be a little bit too low. But I mean, tested out, try and see you feel,
see how you look, see how you perform and see if we can uhm, connect the dots there. Evan Brand: That’s cool. So, maybe I find it at 70, if I have some
ketones running in the background. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. It gives more- it gives enough ketones in
the background. I think that’s the key thing. Evan Brand: Makes sense. Well, let’s do a part 2 on this later but
we gotta wrap it up [crosstalk]- Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk] it just
depends, if your body needs more glucose because of what you’re doing, uh stress wise, then,
you may have a cortisol surge to fill in the gap via gluconeogenesis. So-
Evan Brand: ‘Cause that’s the thing. So, if I’m at a 70, I feel like I’m getting
low, you can feel that anxiety starting to creep in at a 70, it’s like well, do I go
and eat something like an apple, which I know is gonna raise glucose, or do I go do a beef
steak, or do I do a beef steak in an apple to get glucose up? Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, O would probably
do beefsteak in an apple. Evan Brand: Do both. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I will probably
do both. Evan Brand: So you can stabilize it with the
fat and the protein, but then you do have some actual glucose coming in at the same
time. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And to get- there’ll be fructose in there,
but fructose is 55, 45 or 50, it’s close. So you- even though you get fructose in, you’re
gonna get- Evan Brand: But you don’t wanna do just the
apple ’cause if you do just the apple, then you’re up and down again, depending on what
type of the apple too. So that’s why we always talk about like putting
almond butter, something else on there, coconut [crosstalk]-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or you even do a Granny Smith which has- has- half the amount of sugar
as well. But then you get some of the fiber too. So it’s less- you- you’re not gonna quite
have that as much with lower glycemic fruit with full fiber, but yeah, you still- it’s
good idea to always have the protein and fat along with it, for sure. Evan Brand: I stay away from Pink Lady. I tested a Pink Lady apple; I went from like
a 75 to like a hundred and thirty with the Pink Lady Apple. I mean, that thing is like just candy. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. [Crosstalk]. Yeah, exactly, that’s why- my- I primarily
do Granny Smith, half the sugar and uhm, I’ll typically do it with some cinnamon on it and
some almond butter. Evan Brand: That’s delicious. Woooh! Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Well, hey, Evan, let’s wrap things up, we’ll
be back next week and we’ll talk a little bit more, we maybe can expand upon this topic
or even choose a- a new topic. So appreciate all you guys in the background
with great questions. We’ll continue to expand on this conversation
here in the weeks to come. Anything else Evan you wanna leave to listeners
with? Evan Brand: Yeah, people just reach out. If you need help, work on your blood sugar,
stabilize it, but, you know, this stuff can get tricky. So if you need help, don’t hesitate to reach
out, we can work with you around the world. Justin’s website is justinhealth.com, my site
is evanbrand.com. We look forward to helping y’all. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much guys,
you’d have a phenomenal day, we’ll talk soon. Take care Evan! Bye. Evan Brand: Bye.

10 thoughts on “Overcoming Anxiety Naturally | Podcast #226

  1. So when cortisol is off. It can cause anxiety. As in adrenal or thyroid. Makes sense to address that. That to just focus on Serotonin or gaba off the bat.

  2. Great show today I really enjoyed it and I got a lot of information from not eating for many hours and feeling funky. Thank you so much. A+

  3. I really enjoyed your chat on blood sugar and sugar effects on the brain, I'm thinking to much good sugar in my diet (2 dates, fig, chocolate almonds,fruit smoothies ) is causing urinating at night to often.

  4. Hi, i like the work of William Walsh as well. He volunteered at a prison and started examining the prisoners. Very interesting. He started talking to one of the prisoners who talked about the quality of the food.

  5. Are sporebiotics same as soil-based probiotics? What is the difference between the two. Which one of them is better tolerated and effective?

  6. Thank you both so much! You are always providing such helpful content! I am dealing with Histamine Intolerance, so I always love learning more about it from you! 🙏🙂

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