Marketing Speak E152: Making Podcast Appearances More Effective with Jessica Rhodes

Marketing Speak E152: Making Podcast Appearances More Effective with Jessica Rhodes


to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me on. I’m so excited. Explain what your business is about because
it’s pretty unique. Public Relations firms are all over but you’re
a different kind of company that gets different kinds of results for your clients. Could you briefly describe it? We are a non-traditional PR firm. We focus only on podcast interviews. We represent entrepreneurs, business owners
and subject matter experts to get them booked on podcasts that are speaking to their target
audience with a goal to build their brand, to raise awareness about what they do, and
deliver content to their target market. It ends up being a great strategy for lead
generation and SEO. I talk about SEO a lot on my sales calls with
people because that’s usually not the first thing people think about when they want to
get interviewed on podcasts, but SEO is a huge benefit for podcast interviews. We’ve been around for over five years now
and it’s funny because even people that have known me for a while were like, “You
haven’t branched out to other media outlets.” We’re super focused on podcast interviews
and that’s what we do. What has been one of your biggest wins as
far as either a client or you personally getting on a huge show or getting a huge outcome from
a particular podcast appearance? There’s definitely a lot. I’ve got clients like Richard Chapo, who’s
an internet business lawyer. He’s been working with us for years and
he has something like a 450% return on investment. He sticks with this strategy because every
so often, he gets a client. Podcast interviews are a great strategy when
the lifetime value of a client for you is super high because the investment of getting
interviewed is so low that it works well for that, so he gets a lot of clients. A specific example is Tanya Conner-Green who
is a business coach. After working with us for a few months, she
had been on about five podcasts and one of the hosts of the show interviewed her and
was impressed by her knowledge about Facebook marketing. That host became her coaching client and hired
her to do a paid training for her clients. Our client, Tanya, got about $18,000 in revenue
within the first few months and that was from a host connection. I love that story because a lot of people
get caught up in wanting to be on these big shows and being in front of hundreds of thousands
of people when in reality the biggest returns on investment that we see come from the relationship
people have with the hosts who are interviewing them. Is it much more effective to get these interview
opportunities if you have a podcast yourself or is it as good if you don’t have your
own podcast? It definitely helps if you have your own podcast. I had a call with somebody who was thinking
about investing and getting interviewed. He had been on about five shows. One of the strategies for him was that he
was also interviewing those hosts on his podcast. Each interview opportunity was an interview
trade. It definitely helps if you’re getting started
with getting interviewed and you have your own show, you can be inviting those hosts
onto your podcast. That’s an offer that you can give them,
like offering to go on their podcasts and interviewing them on yours. I love that. I wrote a book about podcast interviews and
I talk about rocking the podcast from both sides of the mic because you have the opportunity
to get to know the host as well as they get to know you. It’s funny that you reach out to me to be
interviewed here because you’re on my list of people to invite on my podcast to talk
about SEO. That’s not even something I just thought
of. We’re coming up with our content marketing
calendar for the rest of the year and SEO is such a big thing that we talk about with
our clients and you’re the first person that came to mind. We put it into practice here too. It’s been a while that you’ve been on
my list. I have my own Google sheet of guests that
I want to have on and you’ve been on there for a while. It takes a while for me to get around to. I’ve got 200 different names on that sheet
and it keeps growing. I’ve had great success working with you
and so as my wife, Orion. For example, you got me on to Built to Sell
Radio. I had not even had heard of that book, Built
to Sell, which is a big book. It’s a big deal. I haven’t even heard of it, then you got
me this opportunity. It’s great and it’s outside of my normal
sphere so I can easily hook up to other SEO people at conferences like Pubcon and Search
Talk Live like, “I’d love to be on your show.” I have been on that show multiple times, but
to have something that’s not even on my radar presented to me on a platter like you
did is awesome. How do you find these outside-the-box opportunities? It’s not just a simple Google search. There are podcasts that are talking about
all different things. There are podcasts focusing on people’s
stories and backgrounds and Built to Sell is a podcast that’s interviewing people
about successful businesses that they sold. John Warrillow became a client of ours a few
years ago and he hired Interview Connections to find guests for his show. We had to find people who had sold a business
that was doing seven figures in revenue, sold to a third party, there were all these criteria. Our job as his booker was to find people who
had that specific story. Over time, since he became a client of ours
a few years ago, we’re not his booker anymore but we always know about that opportunity. We can meet people and say, “You sold a
business. I’ve got the show for you.” Part of it is the amount of time. These five-plus years that we’ve been doing
this, we’ve built up this intel and this knowledge about all these different shows. It’s a great example too because you probably
would never think, “I’m going to go on a tour to tell everyone about the business
I sold,” because it’s not the primary thing that you talk about all the time. It’s such a great opportunity because a
show like that, Built to Sell, John Warrillow also has a column on Forbes. He’s putting his episodes on his Forbes
blog and then you’re getting linked on Forbes, which is awesome. It’s not just a podcast interview but you’re
also getting a backlink on Forbes.com, which is amazing and people love that. These podcasts can lead to other opportunities
for exposure as well. It’s unfortunate because Forbes contributors
were selling their souls to anybody with a few bucks that Forbes and other sites like
that decided that they’re going to not follow their external links, that they’re not going
to trust the free contributors. If they’re staff writers, no problem but
even if the site has not instituted a policy of no-follows, like Forbes has, there are
plenty of sites that Google knows that there’s something fishy going on. This is not saying that John is doing it but
there are other people that are doing this, ruining it for everybody. I got this great Forbes link and it doesn’t
amount to a hill of beans or Entrepreneur.com or something along those lines. Definitely, the game has changed and unfortunately,
some people have ruined it for all of us. It’s something to keep in mind and even
though it’s a no-follow link, it still can derive a business value for you though. You’ll get a link potentially from Wikipedia
article and those are all no-followed, but yet you could end up getting a huge deal out
of it because you are encyclopedic, you’re the reference or the external site that is
listed in an important article for your topic. It’s saying as mentioned in and leveraging
the fact that you were on an article on Forbes, Entrepreneur, even if the link was a no-follow
link, there are other ways. You can screenshot it and maybe put it on
your blog that you are linked there. That’s what we’ll have to talk about on
my show when you come on. Speaking of screenshotting, what do you think
about screenshotting? As a podcaster, the fact that you are in iTunes’
New and Noteworthy. That’s something that is potentially very
ephemeral, “I’m New and Noteworthy for a week or a day, screenshot it quickly. I’m on Amazon number three in some obscure
category. I’m a number one best seller, look at me.” It depends on who you’re trying to impress
because if you screenshot yourself on New and Noteworthy and you send it to me, then
I probably will not care very much because I am not super impressed by that. They stopped updating the Business New and
Noteworthy section. It’s been the same eight people at the top
of New and Noteworthy for over a year. If you are trying to impress people that don’t
know a lot about iTunes, then you might impress the right people. If it works for you and it helps build you
up to your target audience, there’s no harm in it. I don’t think it’s the biggest bragging
right that you could get though. What would be some better bragging rights
that you could focus on as an outcome? It’s important to be outcome-focused in
any activity. I’m going to go get some bookings to be
on podcasts, I’m getting interviewed. What’s my outcome that I should be going
after? My business coach, Ali Brown, always talks
about going for fortune over fame. One pitfall people make a lot, especially
in podcasting, is trying to focus on the fame and how high up you are in the ranking stuff
like that. What I would focus on is more of the results
that you are seeing in your business. People can fake their way into having a big
audience, but I know there are lots of people that have a huge following that are barely
paying themselves any money and that’s not who I want to learn from. When we work with our clients on positioning
and building up their bio and how to pitch themselves and show that they’re valuable,
it’s focusing on the results they’ve seen in their business, the kind of results they’ve
helped their clients see and the kind of results that they’ve helped their listeners achieve
from the content that they’ve shared. For example, in my own bio, I talk about how
I’ve scaled from zero to the high six figures, we will break into the seven-figure mark with
basically no advertising. We literally just started paying for advertising. Giving that result, I don’t have 10,000
people listening to my podcast or even on my email list but I have a very successful
business and I’ve got those results to show for it. That gives me more credibility than just talking
about being number one in iTunes, which I’m not either. Giving tangible results and if you’re talking
to business owners, results that they care about, revenue, profit, building a successful
team, client retention, employee retention. It’s talking about stuff like that as opposed
to how much fame or attention you’re getting. Most smart entrepreneurs know that you can
fake your way into being a bestseller. You can buy 100,000 of copies of your own
book to be at the top of the bestseller category, but that doesn’t show how much money you’re
making or how successful your business is. How do you get employee retention and customer
retention out of being interviewed on podcasts? I’d love to hear that. First, I’ll talk a little bit about client
retention. Podcast interview is a great strategy for
retaining clients. My strategy goes back to looking at and thinking
about what information that my clients want to know about. On my own podcast, Rock the Podcast, we think
about the episodes that we’re going to produce, the interviews that we’re going to do around
who are our clients and what information do they want to know. Circling back to bringing you on to talk about
SEO, I know that’s something that I want to teach my clients. It’s something that I want to teach people
that are thinking about working with us about the benefit of SEO and how you can achieve
that through podcast interviews. I create podcast episodes that are going to
help my clients. Then I go on podcasts as a guest, as a way
to share valuable information that’s going to give my clients more value. It creates the stick factor because when my
clients see that I’m an expert and when they hear me and when they see me practicing
the strategy that I’m helping them implement and showing that it works, it helps them stay
with me longer. It’s great for client retention because
when I go on a podcast, if I’m going on a couple every month, it’s great for lead
generation. Usually at least one person from a podcast
will reach out and say, “I heard you on this show.” That gives me a story that I can bring to
my clients and say, “I’m doing this right alongside you and here’s what I’m seeing,
here’s what’s working.” It gives me a way to bond with them and to
share them my strategy and how it’s working for me and that helps them stay with me longer. One of my clients, Income Store, and their
CEO and Founder, Ken Courtright, has his own podcast. He constantly refers clients, potential business
partners, potential investors and so forth to a couple of foundational episodes of his
podcast. It’s like, “You’ve got to listen to
this episode before we jump on a call together.” He had me listen to that episode. It was on Stacking S-curves. It was the very first episode of his Today’s
Growth podcast. It was good and it really established his
authority and how innovative he is and his thought processes. It was not something I had heard before about
Stacking S-curves and I didn’t even know what that meant until listening to that episode. I could definitely see how this can help your
clients in educating them and keeping them on the cutting edge of things and helping
to further build that bond. I’d love to hear also what you think the
employee retention opportunity is here. Podcast interviews are definitely a bigger
benefit for client retention. It’s similar to employee retention. We’ve got seven full-time W2 employees in
our office. I like doing podcast interviews because it
helps me stay in the trenches of what they’re doing every day. Every day they’re researching for shows,
they’re pitching podcasters. When I’m going out there and getting interviewed
on shows, usually it’s a host that has either gotten a pitch from us or has booked some
of our clients and I can talk to them either before or after or during the interview about
the experience and about how are our clients and stuff. I can get that feedback right back to our
staff members and to stay connected with what’s happening in the podcasting industry and what
the host that they’re communicating with the email, pitching our clients. I also know some of my employees listen to
interviews that I’ve done. It’s helpful for them to hear my story because
I like to think that everyone is reading all about me before they become an employee, but
that’s likely not the case. If I’m interviewed and I send it, they can
learn more about the history of the business. We hired two new booking agents here and they’re
brand new, so by getting interviewed on a podcast, maybe sending it to them here, they
can learn about the history of the business that you started working for. It’s nice because our employees love working
here because it’s a new business. It’s exciting, it’s not just being a number
in a big corporation but they’re part of something special, not to be cheesy but to
share the story with them and help get them involved in the culture. Part of that we can do through podcast interviews. The difference between using your own podcast
as the vehicle versus other people’s podcast that you are a guest on is they will ask questions
you have never thought of asking yourself or disclosing things. It will give a layer of vulnerability, openness
and authenticity to you that you might not present on your own podcast. I’ve been on Podcast Junkies as a guest
for example and we got deep into spirituality and stuff. People listening to my other show, The Optimized
Geek, will get a sense for my spiritual connection. That’s not every episode, that’s only
maybe one out of every ten episodes or fifteen episodes. All the time we’re talking about biohacking
and productivity and other very down to Earth things. They might get a little of my spirituality,
but very little. In that podcast episode on Harry’s show,
we went deep down the rabbit hole. I could send that to a potential employee
or a potential contractor who’s thinking of working with me and they get a whole sense
of who I am. We have a podcast called Womensplaining. Margy, my business partner, and I do that
together and we bring on guests. We do some episodes and similar to Podcast
Junkies, we get really deep. I’ve talked openly about times that I felt
depressed or I’m stressed and that’s something that we would never bring on Rock the Podcast. That’s not what that show is about. With Womensplaining, it shows us raw and real
and we’ve had our staff members listened to that. We don’t tell them to, but they have the
opportunity, it’s available to them. It helps them get to know us because we’re
all working all day. We’re not just sitting around talking about
our lives. It’s a nice way to be real and vulnerable
and let people get to know you. I love that name, Womensplaining. How did you come up with that? That was Margy’s idea. We were talking about doing a podcast for
fun. It started as a hobby. We are doing it on the weekends and nights
and we wanted to podcast that we could talk about random stuff that wasn’t appropriate
for Rock the Podcast. We always joke about mansplaining and she
said, “How about Womensplaining?” We’re like, “Love it.” One thing that you use as an important tool
in your business for getting your clients booked on other shows is a one-sheet. Can you describe what this one-sheet is and
why it’s important? One-sheets are super important. Everyone should have one if they’re going
on podcasts as a guest. Even if you don’t have an agency representing
you, just make yourself a nice one-sheet. A one-sheet is a one-page PDF. It’s well-designed, it has your branding
and your logo. Work with a graphic designer to create it. What it’s going to have on there is your
bio written in third person, long enough so it gives all those bragging rights and the
main points that build you up, but short enough where the host could easily read that as an
introduction to their show. You don’t want it to be in the first person. You want it to be in third person. It has your bio interview topics, three to
five topics. These are bullet pointed. They’re not phrased as a question because
each topic could have a bunch of suggested questions below it and the host could choose,
“I want to talk about this or this or this for the episode,” and then suggested interview
questions, which are what they say. That’s a specific question that the host
could read and I love it because I’ll sometimes be on a podcast and most of the host will
come up with their own questions, but then I’ll hear one from the one-sheet and it’s
totally natural. The listeners aren’t going to know that
they suddenly went to my one-sheet. I love that because it shows that it was helpful
to them and it gave them another question to ask in addition to what they wanted to
talk about. It has your contact information, your website,
social media links. Skype name is important because most interviews,
I would say, are connected on Skype and so you want to give that to the host. You use this one-sheet when you’re pitching
podcasters and when you’re booked on a show, make sure that they have the one-sheet, so
they are prepared. It shows podcasters, “Here’s what we can
talk about, here’s what an interview could be like with me.” It shows them the valuable information that
you have and then it also allows them to be instantly prepared to interview you. As a guest, you want to make their job super
easy. What is your position on using Skype as the
channel or the vehicle to do the interview? Is it better perhaps to use Zoom or Zencastr
or Ringr? To be honest, I have not found one that I
love. Every way that we’ve connected with a guest
has had its downfalls. Skype is the one that most people already
have. I like Skype because the call recorder that
you get with Skype has better sound quality than the call recorder within Zoom. If you’re recording your podcast in Zoom,
I would highly recommend that you stop and you find some other way because it doesn’t
sound very good. With Skype, the call recorder, at least the
Ecamm that I have, it has a way to export separate tracks and a podcast producer can
work with that a little bit more to make it sound better than just the one-track Zoom
recording. Zencastr is ideally great because it’s recording
each side locally but there have been some glitches where it gets dropped or there’s
a disconnect. I’m still waiting to find that perfect solution. What we’ve been doing on our show sometimes
is we will ask the guest, “Can you record your end on QuickTime? We’ll record ours on QuickTime. Can you send it over to us?” That’s the best-case scenario if they can
do that because then we can produce a double ender. It sounds like we’re in the same room. Some people are like, “How do I do that?” You want to make it easy for your guests but
still, try to have the best quality. That’s a great tip to use QuickTime on the
guest’s end as well. I did an interview with Sharon Lechter and
it was a great episode. She’s the co-author of Rich Dad Poor Dad
and also she is the editor of Outwitting the Devil, that Napoleon Hill book that didn’t
come out until 70 years after his death. It was a great interview and there were some
internet connectivity issues. She thought she was recording on her end too
just to be safe because I had asked her to and she got her tech person to help with that
and it didn’t actually save. I had no recording on her end. I had to rely on my recording both sides. We do have two-channel recording that’s
automatic and in-call recorder that does two channels. One thing you mentioned was Zoom does one
channel by default. Two channels are very important for the audio
editor to be able to change the volume of one track versus the other. If one person is not close enough to the mic
or has a lousy mic and need some editing of their audio. You don’t have to mess around with doing
separate bits and pieces on one track, you do the entire track if you have two tracks. Zoom has a setting where you go in and you
tick a box that says record both tracks separately. I’m definitely going to edit that. We will use Zoom a lot and use it to connect
with the guests but then ask them to record. We did do one interview and then at the end
we’re like, “Can you send us that?” She goes, “Sorry, I never started the recording. I thought we were going to do a separate thing.” We ended up using the Zoom recording. We were recording our end on a Zoom H6. We had our side sounded good and so we had
to use the Zoom for her. If you’ve got a good producer and editor,
you can usually make any setup sound good enough. Zencastr supposedly has this all figured out
for you where they record locally on both sides and then upload right within the browser
automatically once the recording is finished. It uploads that recording file for the host. In theory, that’s awesome but sometimes
it’s clunky and it doesn’t work right. I tried it a few times and then I started
getting glitches and issues like, “I’m done with this.” That was a while ago, maybe it’s gotten
better. I’ve had the same experience. Let’s talk about some other things that
will make the appearance on a podcast more effective. Having a one-sheet is great for getting on
the show and it’s great for getting some of your ideal questions. The softballs inserted into the episode nonchalantly. Also if you want people to end up joining
your email list or opting-in for some cool freebies that those freebies then maybe lead
to an inquiry or a sale, what would you recommend as the best practice to get the listeners
to opt in for some free gifts and what kind of gifts? My advice is a little bit nontraditional than
what you’ll hear from a lot of marketing experts. I don’t necessarily think that content opt-in
is always the right solution. It depends on how well your email marketing
works for you. If you have a great email marketing system,
you have a funnel that works, you know that once people get on your email list, you can
convert them, they stay engaged. Then get a content marketing like an opt-in
with a lead magnet, going out to the email. This is always the right call to action when
you’re a guest on a podcast. You really have to think about what your goal
is and how you successfully convert people into becoming a client. If you know that you have an email marketing
funnel that works, you know that once people get on your email list, you can nurture them
into a client, then definitely get a landing page with a great headline. It converts well, gets figured out what lead
magnet is going to, get people to opt-in and do that. The lead magnet can change. For some people it’s a white paper, for
some people it’s a webinar. Honestly, whatever works for your business
and whatever your target market wants, do that. For me, I’ve experienced it differently. Opt-ins, lead magnets, email marketing has
never been the game changer for me. It’s never driven the most business. Most of my clients were not on my email list
prior to becoming a client. I’ve put very little focus on building my
email list. I typically don’t have a free giveaway or
a lead magnet at the end of an interview. I pretty much give up my website, which is
funny because a few years ago I wouldn’t have said that. I was telling everyone, “Get a lead magnet,
get a landing page.” I don’t think that’s the advice that works
for everyone. I’m running LinkedIn ads right now that
goes to a landing page where people schedule a call with me and that has been working phenomenally. For my target audience, for the people that
would hire Interview Connections, they don’t want a report. They don’t want to sit through a webinar. They know they want to do interviews and they
don’t want to figure out how to do it themselves. Getting them on a call with me as soon as
possible is the way that I get clients most successfully. You’ve got to look at your business, you’ve
got to look at who your target market is. Do they want to sit there and read a report
or are they’re like, “I want to talk to you and figure out how you can do it for me?” It’s whatever your call to action is, it
depends on what your goals are and what your clients want to do. Let’s talk a little bit more about LinkedIn
ads. What’s the formula that you figured out? How much are you spending? What kind of ads are you running? What’s the offer and all that? We started using LinkedIn ads. We’re working with AJ Wilcox. I don’t know if you’ve interviewed him
but if not, you should get him on here because he is awesome. I tried Facebook advertising for a second. I remember when I tried Facebook advertising,
the person doing it for me was like, “The first month is basically going to be a wash,
it’s all testing, you’re not going to get anything.” That was my expectation going into LinkedIn
advertising. I was like, “The first month is probably
going to get us nothing.” That is not true. It has been successful from day one. We are targeting coaches, consultants, business
owners. AJ’s company basically set up the campaign
after we did a couple of calls for us telling him about our business and our clients. They set up the campaigns and then I would
log in and double check. There were some that I was like, “We don’t
want to target this group,” I would fine tune it. Think about all these different factors. The image is a picture of me getting interviewed. It was at a podcasting conference. It’s a photo of me getting interviewed at
somebody’s booth. It’s two people with the microphone so it’s
like in action. The headline, it’s something like, “Build
your brand using podcasts interviews. Chat now to see how this can work for you.” It’s basically leading to a landing page
where the landing page is a couple of paragraphs about interview connections. It has a photo of Margy and me in a podcast
studio and my scheduler is embedded on that page. Right on that landing page, people schedule
a call with me. They’re not going onto my email list, they’re
actually scheduling a call with me. Every single day I’m getting at least one
or two people that have gotten on my calendar. Less than a month in, we’ve already gotten
a new client from LinkedIn ads and I’ve got tons of people scheduling calls. It is working very well. Are you doing retargeting so that people have
come to your website now start seeing your LinkedIn ads when they go to LinkedIn? I don’t think we’ve started that, but
that’s definitely something I want to do that I’ve talked to AJ about. We haven’t even changed any factors. You want to test different images and stuff
and we’ll probably start that but so far, it’s been working. We’re like, “Let’s keep it as it is,
if it’s working, we’re not going to change it.” Retargeting is definitely something we’ll
start doing after probably a full month of the ads being live. What kind of budget, can I ask? It’s about $3,000 a month because we haven’t
quite done a full month. After about three weeks, I paid $2,000. That’s ad spent, plus whatever we’re paying
to manage it. The management is super reasonable. I don’t know what my expectations were,
but when they told us how much it is to manage it, which I don’t want to disclose their
rates because people can quote whatever they want to different people, but it’s been
super reasonable. The click-through rates are so good that we’re
in this new level where we went from first paying per click and now it’s paying per
impression. Don’t ask me to explain what that means,
but it’s a good thing. The ads are performing so well that we’re
in this new category where LinkedIn charges us a little differently so it’s working
well. You’ll have to keep me abreast of what’s
happening with your LinkedIn advertising. I haven’t done LinkedIn ads myself. I’ve been doing Facebook ads and we’re
going to start doing some Google ads with retargeting for search and so forth. That’s something I’m interested in, so
keep me in the loop. I will, it’s been very exciting. Let’s say that you are a podcaster and you’re
getting on other people’s shows as well, and you want as an outcome to get more listeners
for your show from the listeners to that other person’s show that you’re on. What would you do? If you’re a podcaster going on other shows
and you want to get listeners to your podcast, your number one call to action is to get people
over to your show. There are a lot of results that we want to
happen when we’re a guest on a podcast like, “I want new clients and I want new listeners
and I want more people to my website.” You’ve got to think about what is the big
thing that you want because too many options and too many calls to action will leave people
confused and not knowing which to choose. If you want to get people on other shows to
come over and listen to your podcast, that’s got to be your call to action. Make it simple. Most people are listening to podcasts on their
mobile device. They’re listening when they’re out, getting
ready in the morning, at the gym. I would say when the host gives you that opportunity
to connect, if you’re listening on your mobile device or even on your computer, go
to your podcast app, search the name of your show, and hit subscribe or maybe give them
a specific episode, “Go find episode 57,” whatever it is. Give them a specific episode to start with
because that could help too. Maybe you’ve got great titles and people
can figure out for themselves, but this is a big pitfall that I see a lot of podcasters
make. They don’t title their episodes well or
all you can see is, “Episode 20 of the such and such podcast,” and then it’s the title
but nobody sees that. Give people a specific episode and tell them
to subscribe so they don’t just look it up and forget about it. That’s what I would do. I would make that your specific call to action
and then mention the podcast. Have it in conversation, not in a pitchy,
salesy way. A few times in this conversation I’ve mentioned
I have a podcast and it wasn’t like I’m sitting here going, “I’ve got to make
sure people go listen to Rock the Podcast.” If it’s part of what you do, and you want
to get more listeners, it’s got to be a part of the conversations that you’re having. If you’re also trying to get more clients,
talk about the successes that you’ve had with your clients and mention, “I have a
client who has done this and my client XYZ has done this and gotten this result.” That reinforces throughout the interview. You’re seeding before the offer at the end,
which usually has to be a very soft offer. It’s like, “I’m happy to do a free gap
analysis call with you if you’re interested in exploring SEO opportunities for your business.” Because you mentioned your client and your
consulting practice throughout the interview, that drives home the point and helps get your
intended outcome happening. Also do the same thing with your podcast. I make sure I seed my other show, The Optimized
Geek, whenever I can in Marketing Speak in this show, because I know that there is a
crossover. Not everybody sees it and they’re like,
“I’m not interested in biohacking.” Who doesn’t want to live forever or at least
a much longer time or have more health in the years that they have? There’s amazing stuff in that show. I make sure that I name drop and mention key
episodes. That’s another thing too. If you have a book, you can do the same strategy
we’re talking about, mention an episode for people to start with like, “You’ve
got to start with episode 57.” What if you said, “I’ve got a great book
that you should read and you should start with chapter seven.” I do this with The Art of SEO. It’s a thousand-page book, 994 pages and
it’s overwhelming for people. When I hand it to somebody people say, “You’re
going to make me go overweight with my luggage. My arm’s going to hurt.” The specific chapter is helpful because that’s
an overwhelming number of pages. It works. I mentioned chapter seven, which is a chapter
on content marketing. I say, “This is not an overly technical
chapter. It’s easy to wrap your head around and you’re
going to have fun reading it and you’re going to be able to implement some stuff right
away.” That will get them some results, some benefit
before they have to dig into the next chapter. Whereas if you start with chapter one, that
sets the stage for things. You’re learning about a lot of terminologies. Where’s the result in that? It’s cool to start with chapter one usually,
but it doesn’t get them an immediate result. Whether it’s a book or it’s an information
product or an online course or even the first month of coaching or consulting, try and get
them an immediate result within the first 30 days before your cancellation period, before
your refund period. You mentioned that you have a content marketing
calendar. How does that work? What does it look like? Walk us through this. We put a lot of our content marketing on hold
for a while. We hired employees and we’re so busy in
the transition from contractors to employees that our content marketing took a backseat
to what we are doing in the business. Now that we’re a little freed up, we’ve
got a great staff, we have more employees. We started planning out. We’ve got to get the podcast going again. We’ve got to start writing blogs and doing
videos. My business partner and I just sat down. We have a big whiteboard and we jotted down. We first started with what are the frequently
asked questions. What are the questions I get most on my calls
with potential clients on my sales calls? What do people want to know and what would
be most valuable to our current clients? We come up with topics based on what’s going
to be most valuable to potential and current clients. We jot out those topics and then we also looked
at we’ve got videos, blogs and podcast, what medium with this topic be best for us? We want to do a tour of podcast equipment
because people are always asking you about microphones and stuff. We thought that would be a great video because
we could do a video of all of our equipment and show people, whereas that might be a boring
podcast to be listing a bunch of names of equipment. Some things are better on a podcast versus
a blog. We brainstorm all the different topics. We also looked at who were the guests that
would be great because I’m not the SEO expert. I definitely mention it as a benefit. That’s where we put your name on the board
like, “Stephan will be a great person to bring on an interview about SEO because he
knows so much. He refers people to us so that would be a
great relationship to build.” We look at also who’s the best expert and
who do we want to continue to have a relationship with? That’s how we do it and we have set every
other week for the content. I did weekly content on blog and video podcast
for a long time, but we’re doing every other week because we want to stick to a consistent
schedule. Doing all three things every single week is
too much to keep up with, so we do every other week. Eventually, you’ll be able to outsource
or delegate all of the content marketing and not have to worry about it yourself. My Twitter feed is completely outsourced to
a team member. I have no idea what I’m saying on Twitter
and I don’t know what I’m saying on my blog either. I’ve outsourced that as well to my team. That’s definitely something that we’re
looking at the next phase of team building, adding in people to help with sales and marketing. I used to outsource a lot of it. When I had a total virtual team, I had one
of my team members helped me with the blog. Now that’s in-house, but I can definitely
see that we can ramp up. We’ve never gotten that many clients from
marketing but again, we’ve talked mostly about client retention here, which I know
it’s useful for us. It’s always balancing priorities. Also there’s an indirect benefit here, even
though you might not be able to point to a client that came out of a particular video
you uploaded to LinkedIn. You posted that video to LinkedIn and let’s
say that you’ve got a mention on some expert roundup. Somebody read that expert roundup and then
they saw you at Podcast Movement like, “I know this person I know that name. That’s right, that was an expert roundup
I read.” It’s an indirect thing and then you get
links that happen because you posted it to LinkedIn or whatever. You’re not getting SEO benefit directly
from the links because those are nofollowed. All the LinkedIn and all the social media
nofollows every external link. YouTube and LinkedIn, Pinterest even, they
all nofollow their external links. You’ll get noticed by somebody, a blogger
who does a link with a followed link. What goes around comes around. I believe in business karma and you want to
be a good citizen of the world and do good things. It comes back to help you. One thing I want to mention about LinkedIn
and video is that you can add captioning. You upload your transcripts to LinkedIn and
that’s a feature that most people are probably unaware of. You can create that caption file with YouTube,
export that to an SRT file. Upload that to LinkedIn and now you have captions
which are all searchable content that will help you with your visibility also in the
LinkedIn algorithm. That’s a great ninja tip there for you. I didn’t know about that. I’m writing that down. That’s awesome. I love LinkedIn. I’ve definitely been more active on LinkedIn,
not only with the ads but connecting with people and messaging. I use it as part of my sales follow-ups. I send people messages on LinkedIn. I love this tip. It’s so much more than just a resume database. LinkedIn has put a lot into building up their
algorithm and the newsfeed and everything and going head to head with Facebook, but
on a more professional environment. It’s a social network you should for sure
invest in. What would you tell somebody who is thinking
of doing this kind of podcast guest booking thing on the cheap? They want to maybe hire somebody on Upwork
or maybe use a cheaper service. I don’t know what Interview Valet charges. I would hate getting those emails from Interview
Valet because it was so obvious, they had never been to my website. They don’t know anything about my podcast. It irritates me and then I start seeing them
at shows with a booth as well like, “Really? They’re here too?” What do you tell somebody who’s thinking
of doing this on the cheap? You can definitely do this on the cheap. I would be very careful about a few different
things. I would, number one, make sure whoever is
doing this for you, you’ve got to have some standards in place and some agreements with
whoever is pitching you. Make sure that they are doing their research
and I would also go as far as to say approve of every show they’re pitching. We’ve added that into our service last year
and it has been a game changer. It adds such a level of quality control and
our booking agents are well-trained. We have a very high approval rate of the shows
that we’re pitching but it adds that extra level where the client can say, “This is
a great show. You could tell them that I’m in their Facebook
group. I don’t want to be on the show for this
reason.” It’s not something that we would have known
without checking with them. It’s so important because your reputation
is at stake. People don’t pitch Rock the Podcast that
much, but sometimes I will get pitches and it makes the person they’re pitching looks
so bad. I’ve seen too often where people will get
a bad pitch from some VA or something or an agency and then the podcaster will go directly
to the guest that is being pitched and be like, “You look so bad right now because
they sent this trash can pitch and it makes you look bad.” I would be so careful. You can’t do this on the cheap. You can hire someone, you can have an employee
do it. I would think about what is the cost of trying
to save a couple of bucks. What is the cost of your reputation if they
mess up, if they pitch a show that doesn’t take guests or that hasn’t done their research. You can do it yourself. Sometimes with bigger shows, it helps to personally
reach out and build a relationship with that host directly. You could invest a little bit of time into
your week to reach out and build relationships with the host and get yourself on the show. One thing that is a pet peeve for me and probably
a fair number of other podcasters is to receive pitches that are full of typos and grammatical
errors and stuff. I don’t want to have somebody on my show
who doesn’t know how to speak or write or type, even if it’s the assistant to the
person because that represents you and your brand. We’re all humans, we’ve had a few times
when someone’s made a typo and we take it seriously. We have seen that that’s such an important
part of the job of pitching that when we’re hiring employees, when they apply to the job,
they send a cover letter. We are so strict that if there is one typo
on the cover letter, we don’t even contact them. If you’re applying for a job and you have
a typo in your cover letter, it’s over. That is the most important thing you’re
writing to get the job. We’ve had such a high standard for that. Everyone makes mistakes. I’m sure there’s been one typo here or
there, but I definitely agree that that is so important. We’re big on proofreading and a lot of our
booking agents went to college for writing, have Master’s degrees in literature and
things like that. They probably all have Grammarly installed,
I hope. I love Grammarly. I catch stuff with Grammarly. I love it and I have a pretty high standard
for myself. Everyone has that slip and you type the wrong
letter. Grammarly is amazing. What would be a unique way to stand out when
you’re pitching a podcaster? Is it some angle that you’re using? Is it maybe an attachment you’re sending? A one-sheet is great but it’s not that unique
these days. What I would say is to make your email personalized
and add some personality to it. We brought in an improv comedian to do a training
with our staff on comedy writing. Not that every pitch is going to be a work
of comedy, but it helped our booking agents learn how to write in a more entertaining
way. We’ve gotten responses from people that
are like, “I get pitched all the time but I’m replying to you because this honestly
made me laugh.” You put a smile on the person’s face. I would unbutton that figurative shirt a little
bit and loosen up. Write a pitch that’s going to make the host
smile and be entertained by you and see that, “An interview with this person would be
entertaining for my listeners,” because it’s not always about content. It’s about interviewing somebody that’s
going to be enjoyable to talk to for an hour. It’s a great tip and that reminds me of
a great pitch that I got. They were persistent and then on the third
outreach, the subject line was, “Whiteboard Timmy is sad.” It has a picture of this guy with a sad face
on it and then, “Stephan, where are you? Why aren’t you replying to me?” I was like, “Okay, I’m going to reply.” That’s how we ended up having Mikael Yang
on this show, who’s the CEO of ManyChat, because the booking agent said, “Whiteboard
Timmy is sad.” I had a great pitch, David Ralph from Join
Up Dots pitched to be on my podcast. This is after we had pitched a lot of people
and we had gotten a lot of people on his show. He said in the subject line something like,
“Your podcast is missing some sexy middle-aged Englishman.” I’m like, “I don’t even have to open
the email. Yes, you are coming on my podcast, that’s
amazing.” Where do people go to work with
you and get your awesome team to book them on podcasts? InterviewConnections.com. You can learn all about us. We’ve got bios of all of our staff members
that I’ve been talking about and if you’re interested, fill out the application and we’ll
reach out. We can have a call. Thank you, Jessica. This was fabulous and we will catch you on the next
episode of Marketing Speak. Until then, take care.

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