Iterative Marketing Podcast – Ep. 1: What Is Iterative Marketing?

Hello, Iterative Marketers! Welcome to the
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Now, let’s dive into the show! Hello, everyone, and welcome to the very
first Iterative Marketing podcast. I am your host, Steve Robinson. And with me, as
always, is Elizabeth Earin. Hello. How are you doing today, Elizabeth? I am good. How are you? Oh, I am doing great today. Well, I am excited. It is our first podcast. It is. It is. And what are we talking
about today? We are talking about Iterative Marketing. I suppose it makes sense to introduce
what Iterative Marketing is to our audience tuning into the Iterative Marketing
podcast. I think they would appreciate that. I guess it probably makes sense to talk
a little bit about the history of where the heck did Iterative Marketing come from,
right? So internet marketing, I guess, is technically my brainchild, although I
think that there’s a good number of people that are along for the ride at
this point, and that’s exciting. But Iterative Marketing came out of my time
at traditional ad agencies where I got a little bit frustrated, because my
background came from the digital side where everything is measurable, right? And
so, when everything is measurable, you want to measure with everything — measure
everything. And I got into some more traditional agencies and was frustrated
when I asked the question, “Well, are we going to measure this?” And the answer was,
“Well, sure. Just don’t tell the client we’re measuring it because we might not
want to publish those results,” right? And it became apparent that the way that
marketing has traditionally been done is: Let’s come up with a really big idea,
let’s throw a bunch of time and money at producing some assets behind that big
idea. Let’s go out and spend a bunch of money on some media, line everything up.
And like a set of dominoes, press them and hope they all fall down. And that didn’t
make sense to me coming from software development where the modern methodology
is called agile and it’s all about doing things in small ways and improving. And
that didn’t make any sense to me coming from digital marketing where we measure
everything and try to improve upon it. And the idea of a big campaign just
didn’t really mesh. And so, as much as I was working, you know, combining
digital and traditional media and doing neat things, it was still unsatisfying
from the standpoint of, “Can we do this smarter?” And so I convinced a
few clients when I was with the traditional agency to do that, to start
smaller and set aside some budget for improvement, and not buy all the media at
once. Instead, let’s test some stuff and iterate and improve. And it worked really,
really well. So well, in fact, that I decided that I wanted to make that my
my life’s mission. So, now, I’m on a quest to rid the world of marketing waste as
I — as I like to say it. And part of that is documenting this process and
getting it all kind of contained into one methodology or movement or something
that everybody can understand, and then getting out there so that other
people can apply it. Yeah, and you’ve brought us along on
your journey of ridding the world of marketing waste. And as a former marketer,
I can appreciate that. One thing I want — I want to go back to, though. You had
mentioned that this was your brainchild. And I think it’s important to note that
this isn’t something that you’ve invented are created. It’s — it’s more
a compilation of successes from other market — other marketers and different
industries that you’ve now applied in a systematic way to marketing. Yeah. Yeah. So as you said, it’s not
something that I just created out of thin air. A lot of the stuff
comes from other best practices within marketing. I think the only thing
that’s unique is giving it a name and and packaging it in a way that’s —
that’s hopefully easier for people to understand. It’s not — none of this is
obscure or strange or out of the ordinary or things that other people aren’t
doing ad aren’t doing successfully. I don’t want to say it’s stolen, but a
lot of it was, you know, take — take what’s working for other people
and test it and try and apply it for yourself and figure out what does.
And thenm even after that, since we’ve been applying it at Brilliant Metrics,
the team at Brilliant Metrics has really added a lot to getting the system sort
of refined and pulling in other external ideas and sources and best practices. now you said it’s not obscure or strange,
but it does differ from modern marketing in a few different ways. And, you know,
can you talk a little bit about — about where those differences are? Sure. I think the biggest difference
is really getting rid of that big campaign mentality. It’s starting
small and measuring everything you can. Baking measurement in from the beginning
and improving. And I think — you know, a little bit later we’re going to get into
what the — when we say Iterative Marketing, what we mean. You know, what — what —
the components of that. The truths and then the actionable components. But really, it’s
just a little bit of a different mindset and approach. I’m sure you’ve seen it. What
would you say is the biggest difference? I think, for me, having — having come in
and sort of being introduced to Iterative Marketing, the way I see it is: It’s asking
us to change our way of thinking. And to throw out kind of what we’ve just assumed
all along and go at it from a different standpoint, and I think that’s really
where the six fundamental truths come in. I think that it helps kind if give a frame
of reference as to how you should approach each — each of the problems. Yeah, and I think this is a good time to
get into those six fundamental truths. I mean you’ve mentioned it. I’ve mentioned
it. To take a step back, the way that we’ve sort of packaged this and system —
systematized it is that we’ve — we’ve broken it down into six fundamental
truths and six actionable components. And the fundamental truths, the goal of
those are really to level set some of the beliefs or understandings about
how marketing works best, so that we’re all approaching marketing, as a
practice, from the same mindset. And then based on — if you don’t see the world this
way, then the rest of this doesn’t make as much sense. And so it helps getting
everybody looking at — looking at marketing from the same perspective. The
actionable components, on the other hand, are the actual steps, the things that
you do. And, you know, steps kind of implies an order, and there really isn’t
an order to them. But they’re the actions that you take to apply Iterative
Marketing to get continuous improvement into your marketing processes. So I guess
without further ado, let’s — let’s talk a little bit about the fundamental truths.
Do you want to kick off the first one? Sure. The first of the six fundamental
truths is a persona-first mindset. And that’s really based on the concept of a
customer-centric marketing, meaning that your marketing is designed with the needs
of your target audience, or persona, in mind, rather than the needs of your brand. And so often, we, as marketers, feel like
there’s things that we need to say. They need to know this stuff, right? And this is
flipping that around from a statement of they need to know that our product is the
best, you know, the fastest or whatever, to flipping that around to what do they
need to know? It’s figuring out what it is that your
customer needs and your customers wants. And then it’s — it’s putting your
product or service into that context. So the second one is the idea of programs
and not campaigns. And this is where we really try to shift that thinking away
from that big campaign mindset. And what is inherently wrong with a big campaign?
Because, certainly, big creativity is not wrong. Big creativity is awesome. It’s
more some of the way that marketers traditionally have structured their
marketing programs based on the constraints of the media that they were
working with. So traditionally, we, as marketers, would create a campaign that
would be time-boxed. It would have a fixed start time, a fixed end time. And
then we would put all of our marketing activity in between those two dates. And
then, if — depending on budget, depending on timing, we would probably, you know,
flights and media. So we would run TV spots for weeks one, four and seven of
the of the campaign. And then we would do other activities around that. And then
the campaign would end, and then we would start the next big idea, the
next big campaign. And the idea of programs, not campaigns,
is doing something that is not time-boxed. It runs until it’s no longer effective,
because we’re measuring it. We know that. And we avoid flights. We want to keep it
as continuous as possible so that we’re constantly generating feedback and that
feedback is consistent. Finally we want to — if we’re forced to do something
based on timing, like, say it’s a conference or another event or a
seasonality of your business, we want to make sure that it’s at least
repeatable so that we can take the lessons that we learned from the
last one one and apply it to the next one. So I want to make sure I get this. Kind of the
core component of programs, not campaigns, is that they’re indefinite, they’re
continuous and they’re repeatable. Exactly. And then the third component is
measurement and feedback. And measuring and then having a feedback — feedback loop
in place becomes a vital part of the process. Why is that? The whole idea of starting smaller and
then growing and improving implies that you know where you need to go next. And if
you don’t have data or feedback on what you just did and where you’ve been, then
you don’t really know what did and didn’t work. So I think it goes beyond
just — just having that feedback. It goes to the core of when you’re deciding
what it is you’re going to do as part of this marketing program how can we bake
measurement in so that it’s not an afterthought. And I think that’s the key, is planning
ahead for those measurement opportunities as opposed to after it’s all said and
done, trying to figure out how you’re going to go back and prove to your executive
team that what you’ve done actually was successful and makes sense. Exactly. And then the next one is, we kind
of talked about this with the whole idea of starting small. It’s the
minimally-viable marketing program. And this is stolen directly from the —
Eric Ries and the lean startup, and the whole idea of a minimally-viable product.
Applying the same sort of methodology to marketing, how can we test and make sure
that the strategy, the approach that we’re taking from a marketing standpoint is
going to work before we throw a whole bunch of resources at it. And I know,
personally, this is an area that I struggle with. I don’t know. Elizabeth,
you know, how does it play out with you and your work with clients? Yeah. We just — it’s funny because we
just talked about this today, actually. You know, you want — you want to come in
with the big, flashy campaign. And you want to solve their problems. And so, you
really — you’ve got to be cognizant of taking a step back and saying, “Can I make
this a little bit smaller?” Can I test this first? Is there an opportunity to not
throw all this money at it?” And I think that’s — that that’s the way to look at it. Starting small with a limited, yet
strategic use of your marketing budget, and then carefully selecting those — those
channels that allow you to test and determine those insights. And the key
about this, and one of the things that really appeals to me about it, having
been on the corporate marketing side, is this is an opportunity to become the
marketing hero. Not only do you get to deliver on what you promised, you — in a
lot of cases get to exceed expectations. Who doesn’t want to be that person at
the end of the day? Absolutely, because you’re — you’re not
setting the expectation at the beginning of the marketing program that this is going
to — this is going to be the greatest thing we’ve ever done. And we’re spending
all this money but we’re gonna get all of these returns and — and just
wait until this thing is in market. Instead, it’s — you know what? This is an
experiment. This is a trial. We’re going to start — we’re going to throw these
sparks out there and see if they catch with the tinder that’s out there. And if not,
then we’re going to learn something along the way. And that’s a lot lower bar that you’ve
just set yourself up to jump over. That’s a great point. And I think that leads
well into, you know, we talked about the data. Data-driven decisions. That’s —-
you know, I think all the fundamental truths are important, but this is a really big
piece of it. And it centered around the idea that the best decisions are based
on data, not emotion. But there’s one thing, a word you use a lot, and when we
first started working together, I actually had to have you to define this for me
because I didn’t really understand what it was. But what are sunk costs, and how
do you factor those in? So when you’re a marketer, often times
you have this idea of, Well, we’ve already built up these assets. We’ve already gone
down this road. We spent some money on media. We’ve accomplished a little bit,
but it’s really not — not working. How can we — how can we tweak this in
order to make it better?” And the idea is, you don’t want to throw away everything
that you’ve invested so far into that given program, campaign, creative, whatever it
is, because you feel like, to change at this point means that you aren’t going
reap any of the benefits from that investment. The reality is that if it
isn’t working, you’re not going to reap any benefits from the investment anyway.
And so that’s what’s called a sunk cost. The cost has already been sunk. It’s
been spent. The money has been spent. You’ve made the creative. It’s not an
asset for you. It’s not delivering. It’s time to forget that you even did that. And
figure out, okay, starting from today with what we do have, what is the smartest way
to go from here to getting new business or building awareness or whatever your
objective is. And I like that: It’s the smartest way.
You know, we’re not talking about every day, you have to start over from scratch.
It’s really trying to identify, based on the data, what is our best option for
getting to where we need to be, given everything that is or is not available
to us. And the data will tell you if, you know,
if this idea isn’t going to work. And sometimes it doesn’t. And then that leads us into our final
truth, creating insights. And the Iterative Marketing methodology really
supports the idea that experimentation is most valuable when it leads to
improvement in short-term program results that drive insights that can be applied
to, not only what you’re testing at that point in time, but your strategy moving
forward in general. Can you talk a little bit what you’ve seen in the past with
this and how this is different? Yeah, absolutely. So, if —- part of
the whole Iterative Marketing philosophy comes right out of a practice
called conversion rate optimization. And if you Google conversion rate
optimization, or CRO, you’ll get tons of information on how to execute tests
and experiments, A/B tests or multivariate tests. There’s a whole
discipline around this, right? But what you don’t get a whole lot of is
what should those tests be testing. And the classic example is the green button
or red button test. Should our buttons be green or should our buttons be red
and the surprising thing is that if you test button color, you know what?
It turns out different on a lot of different sites on which one actually
performs better. But you walk away from that knowing what color your
button should be on your website. That doesn’t really tell you a
whole lot about the people that are clicking on those buttons. That doesn’t
tell you anything about how your videos should look, because you don’t have
green or red buttons on your videos. It doesn’t tell you what your next print
piece should do. So instead, focusing on testing which messages resonate,
which features and benefits actually matter, which emotional triggers
evoke emotion. And then that gives you some greater insight into your audience.
You can test where you can reach them. But those are all things that help you
across other channels. They help you in other mediums. They help you better
understand your people so that you —- your audience so you can better sell.
There’s lots of other ways you can apply that knowledge outside of simply the
website, the color the color of the button. I think that’s a great point and I think,
you know, as someone who has purchased billboard advertising in the past, that’s
one of those mediums that you’re just kind of like, what do you do with it? It’s
really hard to test the effectiveness. And you know, using this idea, you
can test these digitally, and then transfer those results to your billboard
campaigns. And so you do get that, a little bit of a level there of insight
into it. With that being said, I am going to say I have possibly run a experiment
in the past testing website button colors. On that note, we are going to take a
quick break. And we want to talk about some people that we would like to
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We want to support what’s important to you. Okay, welcome back, everyone. So prior
to the break, there we talked about the six fundamental truths, and about
how —- leveling of the beliefs so that we’re all approaching marketing
from the same standpoint. But we didn’t —- none of that explains what
you’re supposed to do, right? And so if you want to be successful with
Iterative Marketing, the steps that we’ve been practicing that have led us
to success are what we call the six actionable components. I like that we call it the six actionable
components because I, you know, I feel like steps may make it seem like these
are small little things that you can just do quickly and checkbox, and I
don’t want to create the wrong impression here. That is definitely
not the case. These are actionable components that require some time and
investment on your end, but are going to have long-term benefits to you
and your organization. Absolutely. And as components, they’re
individual things you can plug in and you don’t have to plug all of them in
at once. As a matter of fact, I think it would be impossible to plug all
of them ind at exactly the same time. You can choose to plug in the ones that
are going to have the greatest impact on your organization, and then, you
know, ideally because they do work together, you get to an end state where
you have all six of these things running and they’re all firing on all cylinders.
And now you’ve got a fully-implemented Iterative Marketing program. But in the
meantime, you have to pick and choose which of these are you going to chip
away at first. And I think one of the ones that we’ve seen the most benefit at
chipping away at is actually the first one. And that is, you know, discovering
your brand. Elizabeth, do you want to talk a little bit about what you’ve seen
with discovering your brand and maybe around the process? Yeah. You know, when we talk about brand,
it’s so much more than just your logo or your typeface. We’re really looking —-
when we talk about brand discovery, which is what this first component is referred
to as, we’re really looking to uncover what it is that your buying audiences’
perceptions are about your product or your service. And the key word there is your
buying audiences’ perceptions. Absolutely, because you don’t really have
control over that. A lot of us think that we own our brand. No, our audience owns
our brand. We own, perhaps, the visual identity that they might associate with
that brand, but at the end of the day, they control their own perceptions of how
it feels to work with us and what emotional triggers that they attach to
our corporate name and logo and colors and fonts and all of that, all that fun
stuff. Which, you know, is part of your brand. And that kind of brings us
to half of discovering your brand is making sure that you have that
visual identity locked down. I know, Elizabeth, you recently wrote a great
post on this on the Iterative Marketing blog. What would you say are
the key components to a visual identity portion of your brand? I think consistency. And to have
consistency, you really have to make this document more than just about
your marketing department. Yes, they’re going to be the ones that are using it,
but you really want to communicate this out to the rest of your organization
so everyone understands, not only what these components are and why you’re
doing them, but the importance of it and how that is helping to establish
your brand in the eyes of your target audience. And we’ll get into a lot more on brand
discovery next week with our next podcast, but the key is just getting it written
down and getting it documented. The next actionable component, then, becomes the
persona. So the brand is talking about you as a brand and making sure that
you understand what that means. Now we’ve got to flip the table and talk about the
persona. And so we —- in the second actionable component, put together a
process for understanding who it is you’re marketing to, and then creating
a straw man, an individual that you’re going to hold up as being that target
audience. And it’s not representative of everybody, because they only have one
age, and one background, and they want to one college, and they live in one
city. And we all don’t market to that narrow of an audience. But it allows you
to really empathize with that individual. Would you say that’s kind of a good gist
of it? Yeah, I think that’s a great gist. And
really, the key where you see that different —- that separation between
target audiences and personas is that —- the persona just takes it a step further
and really brings your target audience to life, giving you the ability to empathize
with them. Excellent. What’s our next component? The next one is journey mapping. And
this is the one where I, personally, feel like, if you’ve been able to go
through brand discovery and you’ve gone through persona discovery, then
journey mapping is a lot easier and a lot more fun. And really, what you’re
doing here is your identifying and documenting your prospects’ or customers’
path as they move through the sales cycle. And you’re looking at how their
needs change along each point of that path. Yeah, I think you hit it with fun. I
really do enjoy this part of the process. It’s a lot of fun to a) make —- you’re
writing a story, and you’re getting inside of your target market’s
head like you wouldn’t in any other way because there’s an action component.
You know, they’re in different states of mind, they’re in different
states of the buying cycle. And it’s almost like scripting a play. It’s fun. And not only that, but it helps to
identify opportunities. Because again, this is a document that is not just
for the marketing department. The entire organization can benefit from it. If your
frontline team has an understanding of of the person who’s walking up to the
counter, what’s going through their mind at that point in time, if your research
and development team has some insights into why the prospects started using
your product or sought out your product in the first place they can build that
into the design. There’s so many opportunities for the entire company to
benefit when you look at customer journey mapping. And so, again, it’s
one of those really fun things and I always get excited when a client says
that they are ready to go down that path. And then the hard work begins, right?
Because the next actionable component is, now, aligning all of your collateral and
all of your channels with the personas you developed, the brand that you’ve
discovered, and this journey map. So that you can make sure that you’re
getting the right message to the right person at the right time. And that’s
often a lot of work, and it’s often a lot of uncovering. “You know what? We didn’t
really think a couple things through in the past when we were setting this up
before.” What’s your experience been kind of reconciling the stuff with the
future direction here? Yeah, this is where —- this is kind of
where you’re like, “Wow, I did all this great work and now I really have to
dig in,” because you do. You’re looking at past creative, past collateral, you’re
looking at your website, you’re looking at every little piece. And you know, with
insight comes great responsibility. And the responsibility is now you need
to kind of rework what you have, or in some cases, you know, throw it out
completely. And sometimes, that can be a little overwhelming. But I think if we
continue to balance that with the opportunity that we now have, and we look
at it from that standpoint, you know, the whole world has opened up to us. And yes, it does seem overwhelming. The
key is to bite it off in small chunks. And I’m sure we’ll get into this in more
detail in a future show, but if you just focus on one persona and one journey, it’s
really not that big of a deal. And because you don’t have to implement it
all at once, you can, again, start small and get bigger. Yep, that just takes it right back to
our fundamental truth of starting small. The next one is experimentation and
iteration. Do you want to take this one, Elizabeth? Sure. So experimentation and iteration,
again, a major part of the Iterative Marketing methodology, and it’s
really designing thoughtful experiments that are meant to produce statistically
significant and relevant business insights that extend past the button
color that you referred to earlier. And the key here, really, is there’s two
portions: It’s statistically significant and relevant. We are so prone, as marketers, to
immediately jump on whatever story comes in through customer service or sales
about this —- you know what? This collateral just totally knocked out, or
you know, I just had somebody come up to me and tell me how great the TV
commercial was. All of that stuff, because of the way that our brains are wired,
there’s way too much weight in our decision-making in the future. And so the
key is, how can you —- how can you bake in the ability to get real feedback, test
things in ways that are going to produce enough data that it’s not just, “Well,
So-and-so said that that commercial was great.” It’s, instead, you know,
click-through rate or the conversion rate on people who are exposed to this
particular message was 1.25 times what it was with the other message, and
that’s at a 90% statistical significance, or 98% ideally, statistical significance.
That’s a whole different world. And it’s not —- it sounds geeky and complicated,
but it’s really not too hard to get your head around, once you dive into it.
And once you do, now you’re able to back up every single decision you make
based on the data and it becomes irrefutable, which can actually really
help you with your stakeholders. It can, and the graphs look really pretty
too. So there’s always that. True. Which kind of gets us to the last
actual component. Then we’ll be through all twelve points that we had to talk
about today. And that is reporting and feedback. And this is really key, because,
if you think about it, as a marketer, whether you’re on the agency side or
on the corporate side, one of your biggest challenges is getting enough
budget to really do your job, right? If you’re —- if you really knock it out
of the park with reporting and you’re able to give the stakeholders and the
people holding those purse strings the data that shows you exactly where their
investment has gone, what the return on that investment was, what assets you
built, everything else that you’ve done to really apply that money in a way that
is safe because you’re applying Iterative Marketing. You’re starting
small and you’re continuously improving. Now it becomes a whole lot easier to
justify any additional budget you want to get to. It also really proves your
value to the organization, especially when you start throwing in those,
insights, right? Having worked in marketing for different
companies and in different industries, one thing that was consistent along with,
you know, every path I’ve been down is that marketers have a tendency to be
undervalued within the organization. And it’s, you know, because no one really
understands what marketing does. They’re kind of assuming that it’s this
touchy-feely, you know, my creative are off in their, you know, own world doing
what they do. We’re often given limited information and limited resources, yet
we’re expected to perform miracles. And you know, to top it off, when —- we
often get blamed when a campaign falls short of expectations, but if the
campaign does well, a lot of times, that success gets attributed to
customer-facing departments and our role gets downplayed. Right. And so, coming back to what it is that I
love about Iterative Marketing is that it really helps to reposition marketing as
a business insight generator, and it allows us, as marketers, to take control
of the data and deliver tangible insights that guide the growth of the company,
and you know, kind of reinforce the value that we, as marketers, are
bringing to the organization. Absolutely. I would say that you summed
up exactly where my passion comes into this. The only other thing I would add
is that it really hits home on my whole drive to get rid of waste in marketing,
right? Because it makes the process of determining where you’re putting your
resources 1) based on data and logic, and 2) it doesn’t kill the creative
component but it keeps you safe and where you’re spending money and
doesn’t put your way out on a ledge where, you know, you’ve just spent crazy
sum of money on some big campaign that we think it changed everyone’s ideas. And, you know, I think that’s —- you
said something that’s really interesting and I think is important to touch on. I
think so often, people think I can have — I can have analytics or I can have
creativity but I can’t have both, and that’s not the case. We are arming our
creatives with better information and we’re giving them the power to really
go out and explore. You know, we’re giving them, you know, brand discovery.
We’re giving them personal development. We’re giving them the customer journey.
They now have this unique insight into the heads of who it is we’re trying to
reach and they can run wild with it. And then once they’ve developed that
creative, we can say, “Yeah, this worked,” or “This one didn’t work. What
variation can we try? How can we see if we can make this better?” The worst thing you can do to a creative
mind is give it a blanket canvas, right? Because ask any artist, ask any designer
you know. If you give them an assignment with no direction and no constraints, you
can’t do anything with it. This not only gives you just enough
constraints, but there — it’s telling you exactly where you’re — where the rubber’s
going to meet the road in your creative, where is this going to have an impact and
how. And so, the person who’s creating it feels like there’s so much more a
sense of impact, of this is going to —- this is going to do something, because
you can see exactly who it’s going to impact and how. so I think now is probably
a good time to talk about, you know, kind of looking forward. This is our first podcast.
What else do we have going on? What do we want our listeners to do at this point? I
think that, at least for me, and you can speak for yourself, Elizabeth. I would just
love it if everybody came away from this intrigued and interested. And what is
Iterative Marketing? Is it a good fit for me and my business? And wanting to —-
wanting to learn more, and ideally subscribing to this podcast to do so. Yeah, definitely. We —- you know, I think
we really just want you to join us on our journey. Getting back to Steve’s point
earlier, that we are really focused on ridding the world of marketing waste.
The best way we can do that is to get together and share best practices and
talk about what’s working and what’s not working. And that’s where, you know,
we’re really looking forward to having you not only listen to the podcast, but join
us on some of our other channels. You know, you can find us on,
kind of the hub for Iterative Marketing. And we strongly encourage you to join us
on our journey by subscribing to the podcast, like Steve said, which can be found
anywhere that you find podcasts, as well as on YouTube. And then, we’re also
looking for your feedback. You can either e-mail us at:
[email protected], you can find us on Twitter at —- sorry, Twitter at @iter8ive. Or you can join us in our LinkedIn
community, the Iterative Marketing Group. I want to thank everybody for their time
today and please do subscribe to the podcast. Be sure to come back and check us out next
week, where we will be talking about brand discovery. So until then,
bye! The Iterative Marketing podcast is a
production of Brilliant Metrics, the consultancy helping brands and agencies
rid the world of marketing waste. Our producer is Heather Ohlman with trans-
cription assistance from Emily Bechtel. Our music is by SeaStock Audio Music
Production and Sound Design. You can check them out at: If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe
to the podcast on YouTube and/or your favorite podcast directory. Visit for more Iterative Marketing goodness. We will see
you next week! Until then… Onward and upward!

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