iOS 12 and macOS betas, Apple headphones, Apple keyboard service | Macworld Podcast Ep. 611

iOS 12 and macOS betas, Apple headphones, Apple keyboard service | Macworld Podcast Ep. 611


time right cool welcome to the Macworld
podcast for June 27 2018 I’m Rob and Loyola everyone’s in studio today
everyone to my left Lafe Johnson hey Jason cross hello and
the most important man in the room dan masters around I do sir
hi Dan as I always call him the most important animal because he is the one
who knows how to actually broadcast this podcast sometimes I I know I’m doing
what he’s doing but most importantly he represents you the viewer if you guys
have any questions or comments about today’s show let us know on Twitter and
YouTube we’re not on IG TV not on Instagram TV but on YouTube and Twitter
leave a comment a question and Dan is keeping an eye on those and he’ll chime
in whenever you guys have something to say so say about today’s topics we’re
gonna talk about excuse me we’re gonna talk about the butterfly keyboards we’re
gonna talk about heads Apple head phone rumors but first we’re gonna talk about
the big news of the week Apple really see me public beta as of iOS 12 and Mac
OS mo might as well get into our poll right away because we we did a poll on
Twitter asking if people were running the iOS 12 beta if people were you know
excited about it as we are maybe they are excited but maybe they’re tempered
to excitement the poll I thought was interesting out of 580 votes
29% said of course they’re running they’re using the iOS 12 beta 22% is are
waiting until later until you know later versions of the beta a whopping forty
six percent said no way it’s beta and three percent say their devices are not
compatible which Jason figured out is the roughly 17 people who can so but
that’s interesting also because that mean do you know
we always talk about our there’s always this thing about people using older
Apple devices and that that holds true to a certain extent yeah yes really old
tonight right yeah older than a 5s yeah what you get for or an iPad air 2 is
that air I think first there I don’t remember I don’t remember either five
years at least or the device right yeah so not a lot of you are using the beta
of course we’re right all we’re doing is writing about the beta hey I did get an
email like I want to say a week ago mm-hmm from a reader saying why are you
guys covering so talking so much about the beta we can’t run it it’s kind of
like all right all those there’s a long convoluted answer to that yeah but
there’s still it’s still true that almost everything we write about the
beta is true of the final release correct this is what you’re going to
experience even though you can’t run it correct yes you know if you’re not
running the beta us posting these articles give you an idea of what’s
coming on right so maybe you can’t experience it but you can at least read
about it and see what and our poll is very self-selecting because it’s
Macworld right right right but only 46 percent plus 3 percent I can’t run it so
basically half of all the people answered the thing just won’t run the
DOE blog at any point yeah you know that’s a lie imagine if half of all of
Apple’s customers we’re gonna run the beta of eyes I’d get boy they’d get a
lot of testing we probably got too much testing yeah and so I’m sure that’s not
true I’m sure once you take everybody not just the people who answer Mac world
Twitter poll right it’s not nearly half of them we’re gonna end up running their
beta yeah so Apple does these betas because they want they need the feedback
they want you know trying to put on stable software and stuff and get
feedback from people so that’s that’s why they do it and you know the the iOS
is are free the OSS both yeah and they make it really easy to the freedom to
you weld yet yet one two to do feedback like first of all I think in the beta’s
all of them give diagnostic input apple-rye
that turns off the same ways in the final but there’s also a feedback app
yeah but they also make it just easy to participate like you don’t have to it
used to be you had to download files and iTunes like this and you know now you
can you just go to the right website you could bethe Apple calm on your iPhone
click iOS it’ll download a profile you know you yes I agree to be in download a
profile it downloads it to your phone and then your phone just gets updates
just like it would every other OS update just software update does it and it’s
just as easy for Mac that way to yeah so it’s that’s way different than it used
to be so I have a question well one first law says they recommend everyone
do we backup yep and then first thing they tell you to do backup and archive
okay and then I wonder if you guys would be more likely to write an article 5
reasons why you should install the beta or 5 reasons why you shouldn’t not
install the beta well we just actually kind of did that article it wasn’t 5
reasons but it was basically should you install it or not and the reason you may
or may not and Apple always tells everybody do not install this on your
primary device the thing you use every day cuz it’s beta and that’s generally
our advice as well but I think iOS 12 changes things up in a couple
significant ways that might change your mind a little bit right and the first is
that compared to other like sort of first beta releases you know first
public beta releases it’s pretty stable yeah now just to clarify or to point out
you’ve been actually using developer betas yes not just iOS beta that’s only
been out for a few days yeah the public beta is the same version as the second
developer beta right that’s been out for a while I’ve been using it for a while
and the community has been you know using it for a while reporting on it and
it’s more stable than usually these early betas are there’s still our
problem like I had GPS problems this morning and
stuff so yeah there’s issues but it’s not like usually it’s a crash he mess
until at least like August and it’s not like that the other is that performance
is usually terrible in these early betas right only just right right when it gets
almost released the betas get to be as as performance optimizer yeah and that’s
not true in fact the iOS 12 is faster you know it’s the benchmarks aren’t
gonna show a lot of difference but because the speed ups they did are not
things that show up in benchmarks you know but they’re things about how fast
things open and scroll and smoothness and but it feels faster especially on
older devices and then usually the battery life is just awful right first
few betas and it’s not awful in August well that’s at least as good so being
that that’s the case being that like this might if you have an older device
this might speed it up this and you’re not gonna have a battery life issue and
of course you get all these cooling features right well maybe you can live
with a few yeah crashing apps or some GPS problems that normally we would say
just never do this so still I say back it up and still I say if you’ve got a
secondary device we usually used to say well run it on your old device right now
I say just make sure your old device is up to date and has all your data on it
so you can use that in a pinch and go ahead and put it on your primary device
and just have that as your backup well I remember the iOS 11 beta was notoriously
slow mmm that way as well for washing yeah well Iowa’s 11 release was kind of
got a little bit bad it was still yeah the speed got better the battery life
problems you know got resolved but yeah and it’s a good sign that this is so
stable because that was what you know the idea was is that we wanted to have a
little bit more stable release for the iOS you know improve our 11 go back to
what kind of what we expect from Apple yep so you know reasons I don’t know if
there’s five reasons for other than listing all the cool new features in iOS
12 there’s way more than five but you know reasons not to our you know it’s
crashy and that’s a little crashy and it’s a little
problematic GPS seems to be sort of the big thing that’s kind of affecting
everyone really flaky sometimes it works great sometimes yeah
on the comments on the poll at at better one or at one Petter one says I use it
and I love it yeah I was curious if any of anyone watching or any of the
respondents to the Twitter poll are running it and hate it running it and
just like oh this is awful I’m going back one person says at numbers 912 says
yes to running it but it seems to be draining battery like the clappers see I
didn’t notice I you know I’m using a seven plus right here and I didn’t
notice that it was that it seemed it’s the best I can give you is that the
battery was going down faster but other than that I liked it so yeah your first
day or two of any new OS installation battery life won’t be as good because
it’s doing background stones index and things and we have a couple of comments
alf says they love it and Andre says I’m skipping the beta this year so okay
there’s a 50/50 right there Oh in digital or Talman says on YouTube
the iOS beta are running great on both my phones and iPad Mini mm-hmm
with the exertion that the springboard crashes frequently and my GPS will crap
out regularly ailing with Bluetooth yeah there seems to be at least in this
version of the this what was developer beta 2 and the public beta mm-hmm GPS is
flaky which if you’re you know if you’re a daily everyday using that GPS right a
lot maybe you skip this beta release yeah yeah an elf makes a comment about
that the beta is not supported by apple care so if you have a problem you will
they’ll wipe your phone yes yeah that’s a good point to make yeah yeah so yeah
it’s been use at your own risk back up your data back it up regularly
and you can always back out of the beta if you don’t want to use anymore Jason
has an article on how to go back to iOS 11 but what it does when that happens
you put your phone in recovery mode plugging in your iTunes and it says this
needs to be recovered it’ll download the latest non-beta release and and apply
that so that’s 11.4 and your backups it will own you can only restore a backup
from 11.4 right that’s so if you keep making backups of iOS 12 those are not
gonna you’re not going to be able to restore those backups so when before you
install iOS 12 backup your phone and then in itunes do archive and archive
that backup put it somewhere else and just so you always have an 11 up for
backup ready just in case everything goes bad personally I don’t
worry too much about it because all the data I really need is in the cloud right
so with the exception of like maybe some games that don’t cloud save or something
like that I don’t really have a lot of stuff that I worry too much about a
couple of times when I have actually had to redo my iPhone that way I mean
obviously I’ve just started from scratch Mac is a different case because I have a
Mac where I have everything in its right place this is the way I want it but
iPhone I don’t really care sometimes it’s nice to start fresh it brings a lot
of clarity about like what really neat I haven’t used that app along I don’t need
that yeah so there’s also the Mohave beta that’s out if any of our viewers
have been using either beta the Mojave or the iOS 12 they don’t let us know
what your experiences are got any favorite features got any complaints let
us know what’s your favorite feature of Mojave you’ve been using that I think
more than we have yeah it’s funny it’s it’s more the Jason still actually
pointed this out to me Jason who writes the more collar column and he has a
website six college comm it’s not really a like my favorite feature but it was
like kind of like a oh I didn’t know you can do that
so I actually really liked the desktop stat salon okay I mean it’s not really a
I don’t know if Calina marquee feature seems odd because it’s sort of like a I
mean different things for different people right I have nothing on my desk
ever lied about I don’t care about that feature so yeah I I do this weird thing
where I save things throughout the day on my desktop and then I did I go
organize it later right it’s sort of like you know and like you know if I’m
working and it gets all messed everything’s out and then I so that’s
your favorite thing is the stack so that helps me organize that but Jason pointed
out to me that there’s actually a way there’s if on the desktop there’s
actually a way to mess up your desktop again yeah you can what is it so it’s
like they’ve always had cleanup which just trynna makes everything nice grid
right and now they have a mess up cleaned up you can hit mess up if it’s
just to order yeah yeah so there’s a mess up desktop command and
I don’t know I just felt I got Jason told me that last night and I just
thought it was pretty if that if that is partially I wonder if that’s gonna go
away after the beta I wonder if that’s part yeah that they have to have an easy
way to make everything messed up so that they can like test stacks exactly that’s
what Jason thought too that maybe may know Jason Snell thought to that that it
would maybe go away he wasn’t quite sure what’s gonna stay I like it’s playful
and I think yeah I’d like to see these little playful things that don’t really
matter yeah they’re fun yeah that’s that’s why
I kind of I kind of stuck in my head even this morning I would say it’s you
know it’s because it’s not really a feature that most people maybe will find
useful maybe well but like you said there’s a playfulness to it that if you
have OCD that’s like it’s like I got it I gotta work this out you know you gotta
just you just mess it up a little bit yeah I will I’m not gonna touch it I’m
not gonna touch it you force yourself yeah that’s true I like the new
screenshot function because they always have had that was a control apple or
shipped out three and four yeah command option three
option three and four now those command option five which makes a screenshot
tool that works the way it does on iPhones where you get a little popup on
the corner of what your screenshot was you but you can turn off if you don’t
like but you can quickly access that and crop it and edit it and stuff like that
and choose where those screenshots go instead of just dumping on the desktop
and everything so I think I’m gonna end up using that screenshot function
instead of the other ones all the time because I like to be able to just go I
just wanted this piece or whatever right yes another one of the features that I
really like is now now recent apps show up in your dock there’s an option to
have recent apps show up in your dock it’s similar to the dock in yeah it’s
like the Siri although that’s sort of serious suggestions or is that just
recent apps on the iPad isn’t that also you kind of use these apps often yeah I
mean you’re on the right yeah so it I mean I I use it the feature of myself
often but it’s been there for a while so it’s kind of like the documents and you
know folder or whatever yeah yeah it just
adds a little section to your apps and goes like these are the ones you use
differently because I use the app I always go to the Apple menu and then
click recent items that didn’t click the most you know because a lot of times it
you know sometimes there’ll be a phase where I’m using an app a lot but I don’t
use it regularly enough to keep it in myself yeah yeah so I got to go to the
Apple menu then hit recent items I didn’t pick the app that I’m using but
now that it’s in the recent i3 stock if there’s one change to that that I’ve
noticed this too and I just one change to that I’d like to see which is I want
them to at least as an option have it not put apps there that get triggered by
opening files from finder true right brain because I don’t I don’t need my
video viewer or VLC or preview always being in there just because I used
preview all right you know because I’m always using them from finder right so
something that you launched from the yeah itself and maybe there’s an option
I haven’t dug into it so on Twitter base I hear Mojave dark mode yeah I was
waiting for y’all to get the dark mode I started put you know that was one of the
things I was the most excited about because you know a UI rider Ulysses and
stuff I do a lot of working in dark road and I was surprised to find I was kind
of ambivalent about it and it’s cool to have the option certainly but the
biggest shock to me was that the mail app actually it works in dark road too
and I didn’t know what to make of that it was a so but you know when I was
looking in finder I somehow find the dark background a little distracting
when I was looking for five awesome stuff so you know it’s really cool that
the headings and stuff are there but but yeah axe for the actual productivity
stuff like looking through finder looking through mail like I said that
was the real shocker yeah I was just I don’t know if I like this but I like
that it is an option yes yeah Jason why we’re talking about this before the show
I like dark mode but the problem is that we’re finding is because the third
parties have not flipped the switch for dark mode yet or they have an
implemented dark where there’s an inconsistency mmm bright and then dark
and then bright in the dark yeah as you use different amps yeah so it’s in the
Apple apps but you know if you’re using a third party app I’d really love to see
a time thing and I think like you said Jason Snell pointed this out and I think
his on his site were either have it say dark mode after Sun Goes Down or dark
mode after 10:00 p.m. or something like that where I can set and you know
because I probably would prefer light mode in the middle of the day when it’s
bright out right kind of expand the desktop the dynamic desktop yeah exactly
the whole UI and and on YouTube Tellman says I haven’t had any major issues with
Mojave other than the force quit app doesn’t pop up main times that they try
to use it and then Ashworth says Apple said something they believe about Mojave
running 32-bit apps with compromise in quotation marks what does
that mean I’m wondering well they said Apple said something I believe about
Wahhabi running 32 32 bit abs I don’t remember anything about I don’t remember
being compromised right in terms of performance so Mojave is going to be the
last version of Mac OS that will run 32-bit apps at all at all and you get a
warning just like you right mm-hmm right that says this is 32-bit and you just
say okay it’ll still work but next year whatever there’s a 10-15 10.15 this is
10.14 right supposedly the plan is that you can only use 64-bit apps
automatically so they’re in there they have not announced any plans if there
will be like a or anything right I’ve run a couple threes you’ve been apps on
the hobby hobby it’s just like it is here
you just get a one and you say okay yeah I don’t know of any of compromise
performance with the 32-bit out nothing Iran is like a high-performance I would
notice so no yeah yeah the only couple of issues I’ve noticed
while using Mavi is one which is funny because it’s Mojave it seems to run a
little hot on a 13-inch MacBook Pro I’ve never really had that laptop feel hot
but it feels hot now and second Apple news crashes a lot a lot so I haven’t
run stocks much but the new sort of the uikit apps that they are translating
from iOS to thing with a new UI kit support that Apple’s doing this first
and then developers will be able to do this next year it there their little
wonky still which I guess is why Apple’s kind of dogfooding it with their own
apps and getting in shape now the one feature that I thought was really it
really cool cuz I was doing it yesterday was that gives the continuity camera no
right yeah I always forget that that exists
I forgot it and that’s something that I could generally seem genuinely see
myself use yeah that’s a little complicated is it it’s actually not that
complicated but the one problem I did find was like so the way it works is if
you’re in Apple right now it only works with Apple applications so like I was in
notes and then you right-click in the note where you want to go and you have
to select like take photo or scan document and as I was doing that and
then because I was writing or writing an article
tomorrow on how it works and stuff and I went back to so I was writing and I went
back to do it and it disappeared oh so I was like all right you know it’s beta so
I had to actually restart my math I had me start the application I did we start
my Mac to get it to show up again okay so there was a little bit of flakiness
but when it works it’s really easy the there are certain conditions like you
have to be on the same Wi-Fi network because I couldn’t get it to work and I
figured that I was on two different Wi-Fi networks mhm you have to be on the
same Apple ID so those are the two main conditions you get to get to work it’s
like most continuity stuff right right I mean I can see this being really useful
for like research but yeah I do a student you need to take a photo of a
document or something like that especially how easily your iPhone scans
documents like in notes yeah you can make a PDF you know by it’ll it’ll write
size it and everything so yeah so that’ll be very handy when they work out
the kinks is they’re always gonna be just for Apple apps or is there an API
and just the developers heaven okay so I don’t know but I thought there was long
as you know as long as people doing stuff in Microsoft Office stuff like
that will be able to use this yeah exactly yeah
so real quick I mean there was a question on Twitter so are the betas
available worldwide what’s the situation with that when do you think the full
release is going to be out so in terms of them yes in September
actually I didn’t know that I couldn’t remember if the if the beta program is
the US only or is it is worldwide it is it is as far as I reckon remember it is
worldwide but not necessarily available in in every language okay I don’t think
it’s restricted to just English I think they’re testing things about you know
other UI drivers and stuff like that but I don’t know that every final language
available is available for the beta but it’s not it’s not just us only okay
there may be specific laws in specific countries and stuff to prevent them from
getting beta there I don’t know I don’t know if it’s available in 180 countries
or something yeah but it’s certainly not something I’m not seeing anything about
restrictions yeah and then the fight the golden master final versions won’t be
released in the fall it’s always like the end of September and yeah the at
least for iOS yeah the the pattern we’ve always seen is it’s the second Tuesday
of September I think is always the event it’s the new iPhones and then a week or
two after that and then a week or two after that the Iowa iOS release pushes
out to everyone and then the following week is when I’ll I phones go on sale at
the end of September yeah so that’s your kind of September roll
all right if they keep to that that’s that’ll be the schedule and then Mac OS
is writing there some ways right sometimes they I don’t remember if they
released it Picea on the same day as or maybe a day after cuz sometimes they
don’t want to do it all at once I think they kind of aim for in that
same week and it’s write always landed in that same week yeah it’s always at
least within the same week not not always at the same day so yeah so look
for it in the fall so and you can even still after the final versions are
released you can still run the betas so you can still be part of the beta
program if you’re interested so you’ll get betas of the revisions that come out
because you know they Apple watch your feedback on that’s on that so if
you’re still interested in participating in the beta you could do that and there
will be a point at which you you have what is essentially the final release
that they in the beta program and right if you remove that beta profile it’s
fine you’ll just get regular releases and you don’t have to totally refresh
your phone and stuff like that you didn’t you know kind of don’t know where
what point that is until it happens though right so there was sort of a
theory I don’t remember if it was a rumor or if it was based on anything
that Apple was kind of gonna go away from these mmm-hmm mask feature releases
at once and kind of spread it out through the year and this doesn’t seem
to be the case right yeah and I was thinking that when it started happening
but I think honestly I think that’s kind of a bad idea I think rapid works really
yeah I think Apple does really well with those big drops I mean people get
excited about those yeah I I agree with you but it’s not
Dan’s giving us the signal I think I think they should separate out some of
that apps yeah apps right throughout the year are
not part of the OS but I think the big OS drop is just I think they just made
it made sure it’s a release that they could do it all yes a little less yeah
so look for if your wait it seems like most of you are waiting for the final
versions just you know you’ll have to wait till the fall and perhaps in the
fall we’ll also hear something here literally maybe figuratively literally
about some new apple headphones on next topic so was it yesterday or there was a
mark girl yes that leaves mark nervous it’s always
micro sometimes so yeah yeah had a report about some high-end air pods that
could come out well I mean the projection is that they wouldn’t be out
till 2019 but he said three audio products
in 2019 but I mean they could show them in the fall and say they’re coming out
next year yeah so one was earpods but not to replace earbuds so not air pots –
or maybe they’ll call them earbuds – but they’ll just be at a higher price or or
maybe the same price and they lower the price of air pods or something like that
right but they will be a superset of the air pods and not replace them and what
would be what would be the improvements of the new they said the rumors are
better water proofing they’re not gonna be like IP rated but they’ll be sweat
resistant and stuff and you can use Siri without tapping on them you can just say
it I’m not trying not to say the phrase and screw up everybody’s phone but yeah
that’s that sort of always on Siri and that’s the only rumored things there’s
things the rest of us wouldn’t like like like better sound quality instead the
noise cancelling yeah active noise canceling that would be a feat and it
was very many things but that would be some Apple innovation that really would
to me the interesting part of his report was he said that there’s a possibility
that there would be over the ear headphones yeah yeah that was the second
one earlier in a year because there was already that rumor floating around yeah
so there was AG yeah just to clarify there there was a rumor earlier this
year I don’t remember who that was yeah but German kind of reaffirmed mm-hmm
this rumor that Apple is working on cans mm-hmm and there’s said to be high and
like like what’s the high-end beats the $350 beats they’re supposed to come in
like that or better like it’s supposed to be these are not gonna be $100 cans
according to him they’re gonna hum like 400 I can’t they’re gonna be expensive
expensive audiophile headphones I hope they keep it like that though because I
thought like the Bose QuietComfort 35 they’re like 350 bucks and stuff I
really I know Apple you like to keep jacking up prices but you know I really
believe that’s getting towards the high end there yeah
I don’t know that’s hard for me to justify spending that much on over the
years I don’t fly that much and I can’t use
them at the gym a lot of people do I see people with their big ol cans at the gym
and I know I used to have a pair of bows the noise cancelling when I can’t
remember which models are they work but they were awesome yeah but that’s
interesting and then there was also rumor the rumor also has a home pottery
fresh yeah whether that’s fresh of what they’ve got or a new home pod or what
they don’t say the Brian thing I don’t think you’ve that thing a good update
because you know it’s it’s you know it’s kind of in that direction already it
just needs a good software update right the updates that it needs is a serial
yes and as much cool series stuff is in iOS 12 none of its really appropriate
for home pod like none of it is a well it answers your questions better it’s
serious stuff and iOS 12 is all about proactive suggestions and and scripted
stuff with the suggestion with the you know app and shortcuts apps or shortcuts
yeah all that stuff the giving app developers sort of an API to do that all
that stuff’s great but none of that stuff really works for home pod but I
think Apple is realizing especially with the air pods that you know people really
do want to buy audio stuff for them and importantly I think people don’t want to
you know there are many many people that would buy something from Apple that
would never buy a beats thing we can oh yeah talk about reasons for that and
stuff but let’s say it’s true it’s totally especially if they really
nail the industrial design yeah like if if they have a really understated
good-looking pair of space gray over-the-head headphones I’m like yeah
I’d rather have that than beats just for based on about having the cans shaped
like Apple no I think that would be tacky that would make me not like even if they
sounded and worked amazing I would not buy them I would not want to wear those
you know I would buy it if they had if they made them with six colors like red
oh do you guys think that having the beats brand is doing anything for Apple
I don’t think people I think people struggle to associate the two honest
yeah yeah I think they just sell it off what it gave them when they bought it
was a jump into Apple music yeah but – that yeah Apple music was initially
barely a reskin beats music there their app and but and it gave them a lot of
talent a lot of people who were working rights on the beats music and and stuff
and then other than that like the actual headphone business I
don’t I don’t know that Apple needs to be in that and it doesn’t lift apple’s
brand no I don’t think it lifts beats brand I don’t think right it doesn’t do
anything for each other yeah apples the truck so yeah I mean at this point they
could sell off that business once they kind of got more Apple audio yes like
once they have Apple like over the ear headphones and air pods and home pod be
like well who wants to buy a headphone company maybe dr. Dre well so – the
title people article is I would like you know because I love the way the Bose I
keep coming back to these I come for 35 fold up very nicely in my bag and that’s
the kind of industrial design I would like to see from Apple something that
you know could take these big old pair of cans and make them super compact like
an N you can and yeah exactly so that that if I would like to see
something from the design that would be it my main thing is the Bose headphones
that I’ve used and I think I’ve used the 35 7 used two or three different pair do
amazing noise cancelling there are actual audio quality is it’s okay yeah
you know there’s audio Technica’s and stuff like that that I thought I would
much prefer but they don’t have noise cancelling or they have really crappy
noise cancelling that why am i won’t even use this so if you could Venn
diagram overlap that if Apple could have the Bose quality of noise cancellation
right and the sound quality of some of these really great high headphones yeah
yeah so it’d be interesting to see what they’ll to come out later this year so
yeah kind of quality quality of the their headphones are and seems like
they’re you know take a cue from Beats or going in opposite direction as beat
they’re not supposed to do this if these aren’t supposed to release until 2019
this is a good chance that that’s gonna be what they’re sort of may thing is
next year right yeah they always do something in window March I mean the one
they need the marquee thing this time right I always have like a they often
and the beginning of spring event yeah every kind of every other year maybe
right they have one so maybe that’s a maybe that’s a large thing I’m actually
excited about that mm-hmm yeah yeah be interesting to see how they
work so one thing that’s not working for Apple there it is there are these
butterfly keyboards that are on the laptops so last week Apple kind of I was
kind of surprised that they announced a service for people who are experiencing
problematic keyboards with their recent model math book and MacBook Pros now I’m
slipping it in my mind what years they are I want to say it’s the 2015 MacBook
its Olmec book right it’s all back books and a 2016 the new the new form of the
MacBook Pro the ones the butterfly Network airs never got that people it’s
right that’s why I stay with my air my UVA and my good so Apple has a service
now that’s actually an older one has there
only been one version of the butterfly key or has it been – they’re in – they
can they supposedly improved it a bit with the more reason yeah
– two versions but not – that they marketed it as a new thing it’s sort of
an under the hood oh we tweaked a few things yeah so granted you know I’ve
mainly been heavily using these for only like half a year now but I eat chips at
my desk I do all that I just throw my Mac bring to my bag and stuff and I mean
like everyone else 13 inch and a 15 inch micro Pro I’ve never had a problem IIIi
did was one day when I was scared that I did and I actually think an app was
acting up I think that’s what actually what it was and so rather than that no
and but and I actually can’t like the feel of writing on the keyboard I know a
lot of people talk to you know about the key travel and they like that there’s
something satisfying no I these guys know I sometimes write
on my iPad pro on the screen so so I guess I’m one of the mean obviously my
opinions got change if I start having fun with the keyboard but as far as the
actual design of them I actually kind of like it I do actually prefer typing on
them so I’m not too familiar with this loss
or with this issue but Korell says they’ve been threatened with the
class-action lawsuit yes so I don’t think it’s just threatened I think I
think they were right I think it’s been funny yeah and so what’s the what’s the
deal is it like chips get under it and then it doesn’t work because it’s so you
know Apple has been trying to make everything really really thin yeah and
so the butterfly keyboard you know has a design and which allows that where
there’s not as much welke travel and so it presses down the problem is the way
that works if the old type of keyboards I forget what they call the springboard
keyboards or something sitting on the silicon with a switch original or switch
yeah you could easily just take off the keys you know and dig out whatever there
and then snap it back on we’ve Dahl done it all out I think but it’s a lot harder
with this one in a lot of cases from what I’ve heard that replacing it
basically means you got to replace the entire front of the keyboard so that’s a
good thing yes and it’s and because it’s so thin
the way the mechanism works it’s easier to jam up with dust and stuff like that
yeah but there’s also been people complaining of issues like I don’t have
dust or anything in there and there’s just keys that don’t respond sometimes
or they Jam they like repeat and and so Apple insists it’s a small percentage of
users but won’t give numbers very specifically will not get numbers but
hey a small percentage on tens of millions of laptops as that can be
still good number of people so now there’s the keyboard service program is
if you have any of these things you can take it into Apple or an authorized
Apple dealer and they will test it and ensure that yes it’s you didn’t like you
know snap a key off or something that it’s a fall a flaw or fault and they
will replace it or repair it for free and importantly if they see evidence
that you tried to fix it yourself or somebody else try to fix it they will
still repair it now there are certain other things like you know figure out
you know if water on it or something like that that changes the kind of
malicious they’re also doing a refund program if you went to Apple or an
authorized dealer and hade to have your butterfly keyboard repaired before for
one of these issues that they list then you can file to have that fun returning
you yes so you can get paid back for how paying to get it fixed before and that’s
all good all of this stuff is good but what they got to do is get a keyboard of
than that is pride yeah it’s kind of you know if you’re into theories and stuff
you know there was no hardware announcement announced at WWDC looks we
thought maybe there’d be new MacBooks because there are new Intel processors
that are out we would like to see them you know like we’re at least yeah right
so where are these mac books are with the new Intel processors and now the
theory there’s a theory that maybe they’re trying to figure out how to fix
the keyboard and that’s why we didn’t see the MacBook Air cuz I got those
butterfly keyboards yeah but that has to be completely different divisions within
that within the laptop division right well what we mean is they don’t want to
release like even if the the processor upgrade stuff is ready they don’t want
to a new version until they tweaked the
keyboard and rocket more reliable okay or replaced it with a whole new keyboard
that they can go it’s really just you can eat a whole sandwich right over it I
personally don’t like the typing action the new one like the short-throw but
worse is that in to me is that they it has an artificial clicky mm-hmm to it
that that is louder than the old keyboard the loudness doesn’t bother me
because I guess I’m so used to hearing keyboards when I’m at work and stuff and
that I’ve learned to kind of do you know but there’s like a death to that sound
yes yeah you know it’s like a deeper and it there’s like a resonance to it that
it’s different from other keyboards that I’m used to hearing or maybe where it’s
clickety clack or even just like the keyboard this is one of the reasons why
I still use this laptop it’s because I like the keyboard yeah so but yeah
there’s a resonance to that to that keyboard that it’s a hyper click and and
if any volume a lower pitch will be less annoying yeah so it’s yeah it’s they
they’re I they need a new keyboard it’s one of those things everyone
complains about you know notwithstanding life who prefers it and there are small
percentage people who prefer it but like II you would want if you were gonna make
a whole new keyboard you would want a majority of users to think this is
better right and they’re clearly not in a most people think this is bad yeah
Melissa over at PC world actually said several desk away from me and she will
sometimes say that’s so distracting it’s a it’s a clicky clicky thing she’s gonna
hate coming near us because we’re using mechanical keyboards at our desk do you
think they’ll ever have a half just like get rid of the physical movement at all
and go haptic I hope it’s really good to do that yeah there’s been rumors that
they would they’re gonna replace it all with a screen so it can be dynamic and
change on your rights so hope they don’t do that because I have hyped on more
screens and I can imagine in not various ways with all kinds of yeah with all
kinds of like software assistive everything and
best its kind of okay right despite what I was just saying earlier about that I
suppose did it no I I do prefer typing on the MacBook I’m just saying that
that’s a possibility for me no I’m against the screen idea to the and it’s
weird because they they did this with the touchpad where the touchpad now no
longer travels at all yeah they they fake it with the little taptic engine
thing and and it’s that’s for that it’s fine for the way that that works because
your fingers always on there right there’s always on there the way the
little click the little taptic thing click works is it kind of fooled your
brain really does a good job of it keys aren’t like that at all and I can’t
I can’t abide them saying giving me a screen or something and saying it’s a
the taptic engine it will fix it all and I remain very skeptical yes yeah but you
know somewhere in the deep recesses of the spaceship there is a Mac laptop oh
yes screaming oh yeah what if it was all I mean I guess they could separate the
functions so that like the press actually doesn’t do it it’s like
touching the key is what presses it but the physical movement is just a physical
movement so that even if it technically broke it wouldn’t mess up you know the
registering of the key if that makes sense
one problem with the haptic thing is that you know it’s gonna be another case
of if a key stops responding you’re gonna have to replace the whole thing
just like you know now basically well the other thing is – and maybe I’m
getting this all wrong if it was if it was a haptic keyboard wouldn’t each key
have to have an individual haptic sensor so the idea will the not necessarily you
can have a great touch bar I mean it’s you could grid it out you could kind of
spread it out with sections and just yeah I guess that gets to my point where
it’s just technically and and there’s no efficient way to engineer and like the
size is big enough that I think if you put three or four different little
tap-tap Dickensian vibrators down there right you can make sure that it vibrates
when your finger presses on the left and then again on the right
right finger you could work it out but it’s still that whole thing has to be a
screen that takes a battery life there exactly and it’s more expensive right
yeah yeah yeah so I mean it might be to a point where it’s just it could never
be affordable and technologically efficient the big up say of it would be
that it’s it would be completely configurable like you can have an API
for app developers and everything else that make it could be dynamic it can be
configurable I could do you know but they do that with the touch bar now and
it’s like I don’t want to have to look down at where anymore to see how things
have changed and what I need to do I’m looking at my screen like that’s the
whole point of a laptop to me as opposed to a tablet or phone mm-hmm and the
programmable keyboard would actually that’d be kind of good like for instance
dad I know there are like video there are overlays that you can put on your
keyboard so yeah certain functions and stuff like that so that I mean in like
in production environments that’ll be very useful sure I’d almost rather see
them release a separate device that was that yeah yeah yeah but to have that be
the only option integrated into my laptop no no okay be they say RGB
lighting yeah I mean it’s that taken to the nth degree yes so if you have one of
these problematic keyboards you can go to our website and get information on
the service program while you’re at it you might as well bring in your old
iPhone and get the battery replace yeah that’s still because that’s till the end
of this year yeah is that $29 or is it third note I think it’s $29 yeah which
is a heck of a deal yeah so do that too you might have have no devices for a few
days which might actually be the battery doesn’t take that long the battery is
well why you weight things so it takes a couple have to leave it yeah how long is
the keyboard today sir they say it’s varies because if they need to if they
just replace a key it could be quick if they have to do the whole keyboard
they a while so they just say it varies so what since we’re talking about
keyboards do youth I mean I don’t think you think that they would ever do it but
Apple could be the only company that could change the keyboard layout and
have that you know actually influence that in some way you know cuz like this
is an archaic keyboard that cement for typewriting right right Oh Cordy you
mean there’s there’s more efficient layouts for modern dance
it’s so unlike Dvorak and stuff yeah you can change that in your Mac software you
can say I prefer Doric it just won’t change there the letters are inked with
the QWERTY layout but if anyone is bold enough like Dvorak something and and
then as Dvorak and have you change a to be called Apple keyboard well that would
yeah yes you would easily be able to change that yeah yeah that’s a good
point I wonder if there’s anyone at Apple that brave isn’t the right word
but that forward to college you know what Steve Jobs said we need a on screen
keyboard not a hardware keyboard for the iPhone mm-hmm I mean I think a few heads
exploded and thought that’s never gonna work and even when the iPhone was
released people were like on screen keyboard now every phone is an on-screen
keyboard and we realized it’s not that big a deal yeah but he was willing to
take that that leap is there anyone at Apple there who has that and for that I
think the trade-offs are different than a laptop right because in that in that
way like in a phone you’re giving up at least a third of the front of your phone
right green to a physical reward a payoff is big to having the bigger
screen and you don’t type on it even today where people use their phones way
for way more than then you don’t type on it like you do a laptop no all right you
know to the degree that you do on a lot higher so I think the trade-offs are
different yeah but yeah I don’t think they would take I think that would be
kind of a half step for them to go like let’s change the layout and have an
whole keyboard layout tell everyone it’s way more efficient typing I think they
would go all the way to saying it’s configurable yeah that’s an interesting
question damn it yeah if they went but if they’re like the standard keyboard
just went to something you know people won’t stop buying have any of you tried
giving up QWERTY and and trying to teach yourself to work or one of these I have
I’m too old I never I never even tried I looked at
it and I’m gonna you know set it once for one thing and I just said well but
yeah I feel have a butterfly keyboard it needs to get fixed just gonna fix
freedom and get that refund if you paid for it so as a matter of fact we’re
gonna end the podcast here so you can go get your keyboard fixed so and your
battery and your battery so so if we had the podcast now you can get your battery
and your keyboard fixed so that just about does it for this week’s episode of
the Macworld podcast episode 611 we’ve done 611 of these so it wasn’t alive
first episode so I’ve been actually going back in I don’t know if Dan’s
noticed this but I mean going back and put reposting all pockets because
they’ve kind of fallen off our site mm-hmm so I’ve been trying to go back
and read podcast cuz I’m like it’s kind of a shame that they’re not accessible
whenever I have a moment like 15 minutes I’ll go do some work so delay the end of
the podcast but if you find one that has like an interesting topic that it would
be neat to go back and look at like the lens of now like did they predict right
today get it right what change you know though maybe we should have a podcast
where we look at some other week or a handful of old podcast topics and what
they said and then look at him yeah I’ll keep an eye out for that but
join us next week for our podcast we’ll probably be on our regular timescale I
know it’s July 4th oh joy for that we offer are you moving
it we’re off so yeah so in the u.s. for those our international viewers it’s a
holiday here as they celebrate Independence Day on July 4th this is a
Wednesday it’s the day we fought the aliens and
won yes yes so keep an eye on our website to see when the next episode of
the mackerel pockets we have to check our schedules let’s see what’s going on
so it’ll probably just be normal time the week after yeah the week after that
we have other things to figure it out we know we’re not on on July 4th in the
meantime look for an old podcast that I’ll be posting on the website so but
yeah keep our eye on the website we’ll post when we’ll be broadcasting again so
we’ve got some scheduling issues that we have to work out from for the next
podcast for podcast 612 so but yeah keep an eye out on Macworld comm I’d like to
thank Leif and Jason thank you but Dan our producer you’re welcome thank you
the viewer for joining us like I said check our website for the next episode
of the mathworld podcast thank you very much
see you guys later happy for

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