Interview with Podcasting Master Jordan Harbinger

Interview with Podcasting Master Jordan Harbinger

Hi I’m Michael Port, we’re at Heroic
Public Speaking HQ and this is my friend Jordan Harbinger the host of the Jordan
Harbinger Show and we just spent a day working in the theatre on some film
technique and we’re gonna talk about that and anything else that comes up.
Sure. I do want to start with your hat because that’s really cool. Yeah it is a cool hat. Where did you get that? I got this I bought this at the gap. Oh really so now they’re there and they’re carrying branded yeah yeah Heroic Public
Speaking branded hats. I think that’s it yeah now I got this from you obviously
and it has the sticker still on it which is you know I like my hats I even left
the tag on oh that’s so that I can return it later. That’s great. So there’s
before we rolled the camera we’re actually talking about we were doing that well how much
would it take to sell your business yeah and and and I think I said we don’t know
how it came up at first but I said you know someone would give me a hundred
million dollars right now I’d sell HPS and and Jen your wife she’s over there
she said no he would never sell HPS I said of course I would if if the if the
offer was right there’s a million other things that I could do that that will
still allow me to to express myself in a way that’s meaningful and serve the
people that I want to serve and then you said no no I wouldn’t sell my show right and
and then we just said the exact same same conversation right you said you
wouldn’t sell you show your agent and ask you would you sell your show for
five million dollars. I said “No way.” But I said well put about a hundred million
and then you say oh well okay so it’s them it’s the multiple most of
us that have a number. Right I’m look I’d love to have that problem like oh man
I’m getting offered fifteen million maybe I should sell it
my agent was really disappointed when I said I didn’t want to sell for five
million I think he thought I can get you five million and I’ll get 15% of that
right yeah your quick hit yeah so the reason that I think this is an
interesting conversation is not because because you know our businesses are
worth so much but because when you know you
every day to work really really hard on something that you care about it’s easy
to lose sight of why you’re doing it and where you’re going and what the whole
point of it is and so for you what why do you do the show? What’s the point of
this? Yeah you know I would do the show for free and I did for a long time and I
just really like I like getting good nuggets of information out of people
that they probably wouldn’t have thought to teach themselves or that they would
only be able to have written somewhere and then have them teach it to the
audience and to me obviously by extension or rather teach it to me and
then the audience by extension I like that I like that process and I also like
having conversations there’s something it’s probably a little bit of narcissism
right because I get to be this maybe second fiddle to the other person who’s
in the show with me but I’m like oh I’m not content just reading my favorite
authors books you know I wanted to monopolize 90 minutes or an hour of
their time and ask them questions that I want answered I don’t want to watch a
video of them and doing Q&A I want only my questions answered I want them to
only talk to me it’s like you know now that I think about it this is definitely
from me being an only child right it was like pay attention to me I’m the only
one that’s here that’s important right now pay attention to me I guarantee you
that if you if I was to sit down with your dad. My father’s a psychiatrist.
Right he would probably do some digging and trace this definitely down to the
fact that I’m an only child I’m almost sure that now and I hadn’t thought about
it till this very moment there’s something about that that I love just
being able to go okay we’re talking about this I’m driving the conversation
you’re gonna answer my questions I read your book but I have these questions and
I want them answer yeah sure I could probably get them out of articles
YouTube whatever interviews that the author’s done but I kind of want to
create something new that’s tailored specifically to me and what I’m creating
I’m tailoring to the listener. Do you feel that you’re inherently curious?
People say that and yet maybe I mean yes I’m curious in that I always want to I
guess the definition of curious is wanting to know things so yeah there’s
that but I’m not like I’m not when I don’t consider myself like oh gee I
wonder why this happens or I wonder why that happens yeah with certain subjects
but with other things I don’t care at all so I think am I generally
curious probably but do I walk around thinking like oh I’m so curious about
how everything works I don’t know my wife would probably be able to answer
that better than me or somebody that knows me well I’m curious about the
topics that I’m really passionate about other things I probably don’t care about
at all I and that’s that maybe the same for everyone but I don’t know I think
curious people they when I think curious if they want to know everything about
everything I’m not like that mm-hmm So Jordan came in from California today
to to work on his on-camera technique because he is obviously very
accomplished podcaster and he has so many opportunities to work on film he’s
wanted to work on his technique we Jordan and I first met about four years ago
right when he came to one of our events and were you will you tell them how what
your first experience was like and and yeah what you thought? Yeah gladly cuz this
is really this this is a funny story in my opinion so we had dinner you me Amy
and our friend John Kirk when we had dinner and I thought oh this people are
really nice and you invited me to your event in Florida and I said oh I want to
go to that my wife went that’s in like a week I gotta cancel all this stuff I
said that’s fine I want to learn how to be a better speaker and Amy had told me
about master classes that you weren’t doing anymore
but I thought I’ll go to the event maybe I’ll glean some some wisdom from that I
showed up at the event and it was pretty good and there was a lot of coaching of
people sort of spontaneously that were going up on stage and you’d say okay
give me a piece of your keynote and they would do this pretty crap job of
speaking or like mediocre at best right and then you’d go oh okay well I don’t
know pull your pants up and like tie your right shoe tighter and then do
these three other random things and then do it again
and then they would just kill it and I would go oh man that’s this is fake this
is like a scam that you’re running and I’m of course I’m kidding about the
pulling up of the socks it was like oh you know do this and how about you
deliver it that way and you when you do this walk that way and then pause and
this but I thought it’s not going to make that big of a difference
you kept doing that in doing that and I was about to leave actually cuz I just
saw I don’t just sit here and get scanned like I had other things I could
do in Florida from San Francisco I already flew down here and then a friend
of mine, Clay Abear went up and he did his and I thought all right well Clay is
definitely not part of a scam so I stuck around and then I think Derrick Coburn
went up there and I’m friends with him so I thought okay this is real and I
remember asking him so what do you what just happened up there and they said oh
I just a couple quick tweaks and I thought if this is what Michael and Amy
do in 5 minutes 10 minutes 15 minutes whatever it was up there what happens
when you take a more in-depth class and I said do you have in-depth classes I
want to work with you for like a longer period of time and and I care about you
said something like just hang on till the end of the event but yes we do
private stuff and it’s like 50 grand a day and I was like see you later but I
waited til the end of the event and then that’s when you debuted the grad school
and I took that and that was twenty or some days of coaching and it was awesome.
So what you know sometimes people assume that if you if if you’re very skilled in
a particular medium then that would just apply to any other performance medium.
Yeah not true. Very very small as a podcaster and and what what why did you
want to come and work on your speaking? What did you think what was what was
difficult for you? What were you having trouble with and what did you want to
work on and improve? Yeah so I’ve been doing podcasting at that point for at
least eight years but podcasting and radio you know like that I could take
callers I could speak live I can I’m quick on my feet but what I wasn’t able
to do was go up on a stage and perform in any way I mean I could go up there I
didn’t freeze I wasn’t getting stage fright you know a lot of people go oh
you get stage fright but you don’t get no I wasn’t getting stage fright and it
wasn’t in a lot of DJ’s or a radio host will because they’ll go up and they’ll
be like you’re talking to a million people but you’re real there’s a
microphone in the room with you they’re all out there that wasn’t my problem I
would go up there and I would be okay and I would do my talk and I would go
through my slides and it was fine and you get applause and nobody says oh man
you know you need work and I took speaking classes I took a bunch but I
knew that there was a difference between me going up and giving a passable talk
where people were like oh that was good good content and going up there and
killing it because if you watch somebody who’s a really good speaker people in
the audience are moved they’re smiling they’re laughing in some people have
ridiculous shtick where they get the audience dancing I’m not into there but
I knew that I couldn’t do that even if I wanted to at that point yeah and I
thought I want to at least have the ability to go up there and be what rock
star level speaker and I knew that I didn’t have the skills I didn’t have the
know-how and I took a bunch of different speaking classes and all I got was sort
of plateaued out because the all the people in those courses were like oh if
I don’t learn how to lead meetings my boss is gonna fire me I can’t get
promoted because I don’t have team management skills so I went to HPS
because I thought okay I need to actually perform this is for key, this
is the school for people who need to do keynotes for money and be entertaining
and educational at the same time not just not blowing. So you came today to
work on your video skills? Right. So what were you finding difficult there and
what did you discover today? So I knew that I’d already been good at the radio
thing right and then I learned how to speak from the stage there’s just
something that happens when I was on camera where I went oh I’ve got to be
different now which is exactly the problem I had on stage but it wasn’t
like I need a different skill set well actually that’s I thought I’d needed
more skills I actually needed the skill of forgetting that the camera was in the
room but it’s not quite that simple because I think a lot of people watch
this and go oh I can just forget the cameras here there’s something about
asking what it is about you that you want to communicate forgetting the
cameras there while also being able to communicate with the audience behind the
camera but not playing up to the camera and this is hard to explain but what I
was doing was I was being like well now I’m on camera alright everybody
see next time and it was just like corny and
fake but not only was it canned corny and fake all of the good things about my
personality that are that people really like from the radio and from the podcast
were just kind of going by the wayside because I had to look the part on video
or so I thought so I had to unlearn a lot of bad habits relearn how to do what
I do best with a camera also in the room and that’s a different skill set
it requires unlearning and learnings or new skills. One of the things that people
are often surprised by when they come and start doing this work is is how
personal and individualized the experience is because often people think
well I’ll just come and I’ll learn the technique and or learn the tricks when
in fact often the way that you see the world needs to change or the way that
you see yourself needs to change and and so there’s often a real opportunity for
personal growth in the process and that’s the thing that is often most
surprising to people and often the most impactful because you know you could
learn all the technique in the world but but if the way that you’re showing up is
not representative of who you are and what makes you appealing to people then
those techniques are just being layered on top of something that is not fully
expressed or fully real. Sure I mean look if your mission is to be relatable to
the audience which I think probably every speaker and every podcast radio
host wants to be then the last thing you want to do is put on a bunch of
different masks in a costume that make you less relatable you know if what if
what people like about you is you’re real you’re no BS the last thing you
want to do is then put on fake an on real totally BS persona because there’s
a camera in the room and that’s kind of what I found myself doing and it was
hard because I I knew it was there but then when I took it away I just didn’t
feel like I was it still wasn’t being myself I was just being like lame-o non
performer mhm and I to find the right not just balance but I
actually had to get rid of I had to use a paint scraper to get off the mask that
I thought I wasn’t even wearing right instead of just layering on something
else which is what I thought I came here to do.
Does that make sense? Yeah of course it does. So let’s talk about podcasting just a
little bit. Sure. A lot of the people that we serve are podcasting thought about
podcasting you know looking at different aspects of platform
building because of course if you’re speaker there are other ways to spread
your message than just on the stage. But of course I saw I think the onion
did a little piece recently something about there are 250 million guests were
still needed for today’s podcast yeah which of course you know it’s
demonstrating you’re illustrating that there are so many podcasts does the
world need another podcast right now yeah and you of course you started what
year 2008? 2006. 6? Yeah. So of course you were very early beyond in the process so
if somebody is considering doing a podcast or they’ve started a podcast and
they want to you know ramp it up what do you think the most important elements
are for them to focus on? I think a lot of people first of all if you’re
thinking about doing a podcast and you’re not sure if you want to do it
then I would say you can go ahead and try going on other people’s shows and
see if you think it’s fun is it fun enough to do even if no one’s listening
that’s the question because there’s a pretty good chance
that you’re gonna do it and no one is gonna listen and I know right now you’re
secretly thinking yeah the people will listen to mine just hypothetically just
go with me here what if it wasn’t even on the internet and no one could listen
to it would you still do it? Would you still have the conversations? If so
invest spend the time and money and energy into doing it because the average
podcast has 109 downloads. That’s it. it might even be less now
that was what it was a few years ago 109 that’s pretty bad. Yeah you know that’s
actually less than the number of average books the average sales of a book
so average book sells 300 copies. Wow this at least that’s my understanding
right that’s how much how much steal the show sold. So, so if we’re not.
That’s terrible. It’s terrible but I love that of the idea would you do it if
nobody was yeah that’s got to be the question because here’s the thing here’s
the the secret right you’re gonna get a few hundred when you promote the crap
out of it and the bots start crawling it and you get all your friends to do it
and then it’s gonna go down from there generally before it goes up again but
even if you get three thousand you’re gonna go oh man that’s not really enough
I know it sounds like a lot right now you’re still gonna be disappointed and
then you’re gonna get to thirty thousand and you’re gonna go oh man I gotta bring
it up so I can get advertisers and then you’re gonna bring it up to fifty
thousand and you’re gonna think oh this is all right but you know I need more
because now I’m really doing it so no matter what number you’re at you’re
gonna be dissatisfied most likely so you have to be satisfied with nothing, otherwise you’re gonna be dissatisfied with whatever it is that
you have. So it sounds like the the driver is the why? It has. it has to be it
has to be the why and if there’s anything that I’ve learned since
starting a business in 2003 is not to do things because you think you should. Oh
man don’t write a book because you think you should don’t do a podcast because
you think you should don’t start up a YouTube channel because you think you
should. And we don’t have to do things the way that everybody else is doing
things there is no one way to approach this kind of work. That’s yeah I agree I
think it’s easier to look at somebody as a big book and go well they have a big
podcast too the world is littered with people who had a big book two years ago
that had a big podcast and now they don’t do either of those things and now
their life coaches. What’s what’s what scares you the most about
being a podcast host? I don’t mean like doing the episodes itself or the
guests but but being a podcaster this one particular type of business. Yeah
it’s very very different than owning a heating and air conditioning yeah
company it is so you know from a business perspective what makes you
nervous? I worry that it’s very it’s very hard to grow an audience when you’re a
podcaster there’s no you can’t just buy Facebook ads and grow
you can’t just advertise on some other platform and grow and also even if
you can you have to have content that that is so good that people stay with
you for the hour. Is that the reason that you can’t because you can get them there but
you you don’t necessarily get them to stay is that what you’re saying? Most media people are
looking through Instagram for their attention span is one second half a
second Facebook there’s going through social media their attention spans a
couple seconds they’re surfing the web it’s maybe a couple seconds maybe a
couple of minutes with podcast your show is a short shows 20 minutes mine’s like
an hour so I’m looking for people with long attention spans that are smart
enough to understand what I’m talking about when I’m interviewing a
neuroscientist or talking with Darren Brown who is an illusionist magician
something like that or I’m interviewing a comedian Russell Brand or an athlete
or something like that they have to be willing to take that deep dive that is
not your one in a thousand people is going to be willing to go on that
journey with you and you’ve got to find those needles in each haystack it’s not
cost-effective to be looking for those people on social media or which is where
most of the advertising is and so and I know right now there’s a million
marketers that are like oh I bet I could do today talk to me when you’ve grown a
show to the six-figure mark there’s only a handful of people that have done that
and the reason is because there’s not that many people willing to listen to
multiple hours of content. It is a lot. So what about what are you bringing on
guests you know like Russell Brand or these these folks that are interviewed
regularly by not just podcasters but oh everyone the the best journalists in the
world from you know Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair you know New York
Times, Wall Street Journal, etc. how do you approach somebody like that? Because
it’s you know if you bring on an author often you you know you look at their
work and you’re diving into their work but you don’t want to do an interview
that’s the same as right everybody else has done so how do you approach trying
to bring out new new ideas from them or new experiences that they haven’t shared
before that are relevant to your audience? So the first thing I’ll do is
I’ll read their book cover to cover if they if they have one right. So I can’t
tell you how many podcasts I’ve been on where the I’m pretty clear to me that
the host hasn’t actually read the latest book that he’s asking you questions
For sure yeah. You know he read a little bit here and there and then read
the summary on Amazon yeah yeah and then yeah if you’re lucky or the back I’m not
I’m not saying they’re they’re obligated to although I would argue that you are
yeah I mean I’m just I’m just saying you know I’m not saying like you have to
read my book but if you are going to invite someone on the show yeah I feel
that it’s it’s it is appropriate to really do your work. You should I mean
look if if there you want your interviewee to bring their a-game and
you’re not even gonna it’s like hey I want to play in the NBA oh man how long
have you been working out in training I haven’t well why do I want to play why
do I want to play tennis with you if you don’t know how to play tennis because
you’re entitled to play with me for an hour I mean like call a pro at anything
yeah and make tell them that you want to sit down with them for an hour for free
by the way but you’re not going to put any energy into the equation at
all you’re gonna show up and try to be funny and make corny jokes but you were
beyond that you are gonna have done nothing you’re just gonna have your life
experience it’s just not right so for exact interviewed a Ehud Barack
who’s the former PM of a prime minister of Israel yeah and I read his book
cover-to-cover and what was the reason I say cover to
cover is because people go oh I got to blow through this book so they go
through chapter one and they go to chapter 5 and 10 you got to read
the beginning the intro where they say thank you to people because you get a
little nuggets like there was a doctor and she had in the
acknowledgments said to my adopted parents but for you I may have grown up
in the Dark Continent and not had the opportunity that America afforded me and
I was like oh she was adopted from Africa this is really interesting that
was the beginning of that interview everybody else they who didn’t bother by
the way reading her book was like so why do you want to cure malaria? And I’m like
clearly one of the reasons you’re working on malaria is because the place
where you’re from is plagued by this so she’s like yeah how did you know and I
said you put it in your book and she goes oh yeah but it was you know you
read the book that first of all the rapport with that interview he goes
through the roof they’re willing to be open with you now you can ask them
things that that aren’t in the book that are more personal and they’re like oh
I’ll fill this in for you because you did the other work but if I just sit you
down and go so why are you passionate about public speaking? And you’re like oh
this is literally in the epilogue or the prologue to my book so thanks for right
not doing though it just doesn’t make sense to not meet the person where
they’re at and when I was interviewing a Ehud Barack, read the book
cover-to-cover went on and looked up all his controversial stuff on Wikipedia
looked up a bunch of articles that the book was reviewed in looked at all the
criticism that he had been subjected to over the past few years all the stuff
that was current about him and the media and then when I did the interview I
thought okay clearly what he likes talking about our the special operations
in the book and then he’s also been a politician because he was the leader of
Israel so I’m gonna say what did you learn from this special operation that
you put into play when you were doing the diplomacy thing and so we did this
interview was supposed to be 15 minutes long I didn’t realize this until the end
he goes I only had 15 minutes booked for this we got we went for an hour and 15
minutes until his wife or his assistant finally came in and was like you’re done
this is over it’s like you got to stop now we got to do this other thing and he
went oh we only have 15 minutes and I said oh I didn’t even know that because
I thought we had an hour yeah I thought I went over usually an hour right but
apparently his assistant was like we’re just gonna cut it at 15 minutes and then
tell him during like this is all you get yeah so we did an hour and fifteen
minutes and at the end of the interview he said that he gave me the highest
compliment ever he goes you know this is the most
interesting interview that I’ve ever done and I said really and he goes yeah
I’ve been interviewed by a lot of bigwig journalists and this is the I’ve never
had such an interesting interview. Did he say why? Yeah I think well he gave me a
little hint he didn’t fully explain it I think the reason was because those
journalists probably say so you have a new book about your career as a
politician and a soldier what do you think about the Arab-Israeli conflict
right now and he goes cool so this isn’t really about my book at all right or
it’s about general news items so that you can get a quote that you can then
pull out of context and then like plug into some Nightline broadcast about what
I think about this the other thing is I think a lot of these other journalists
when they’re doing their prep if they even bother reading the book are doing a
lot of research if you’re a really good journalist you bring in years of
experience in the Middle East and you’re probably like okay I want to ask about
these totally other different topics and he might not really want to talk about
those things and you’re you have to get good hard hard pressed information out
of them because you’re doing something for like El Pais or like The Guardian I
don’t have to do that I’m able as a host an interviewer to not be a hardcore
journalist where I’m completely out of the equation and I’m pressing them hard
on Arab Israeli Palestine tensions but also I get to let them go down the road
of what they’re passionate about and I can insert my own opinion and have a
really good conversation with them because my job is to be a
conversationalist not to press them on hard issues make sure that they tell me
a straight answer about some political opinion or topic or policy. Well what
I’ve seen really really challenged people though. I do. When I when someone
was on your show and they’re they’re giving you an answer that you think is
flimsy or really unsubstantial I’ve seen you push. Sure I’ll push ya
I’ll push you know for example if if I’d asked Ehud Barak and I didn’t but let’s
say I asked how many what prospects do you think we have for a peaceful
solution? He’s gonna give me the answer that he gives everybody I don’t even
know what that would be because I wasn’t interested enough at that point to ask
because I knew that he’s probably been asked that a thousand times but if I got
that political answer I could push hard for something more
real but this is a trained politician who’s not going to go you know what fine
here’s the real answer that I’ve never given anyone. Right and so but
if I’m talking to somebody who wrote a book and I say so what’s the key to
being a better public speaker and you go well you just need to buy my coaching
program I feel like look man that can’t be what
you wrote in your book did you just write by my coaching program if so how
many refunds have you got on this book you know and then you go well there’s a
lot in the book that I haven’t gotten into here okay well for example well you
need to buy my book to find out the secrets now man you encouraged us to buy
your book but you’re giving it. But at the level that you’re out with you’re
sure you do really have guests who I mean you’re obviously exaggerating a
little bit we all know people have done a really yeah there was a there’s a lot
of shows I wouldn’t say a lot there are a few shows that don’t air I remember a
couple years ago now I’m better at screening and my producers really good
at screening yeah but there are there have been shows that don’t ever make it
to air there was one that was about finance and I didn’t really love the top
I actually don’t cover health or finance at all now and this was a finance book
and it was written by this this gal who I’m gonna try to be as vague as possible
she had worked for a finance network in a finance niche it wasn’t a finance
network as far as I I know and I said what qualifies you to write this book
about finances she goes well I spent the last three years doing the finance beat
for this network and I go but you have no you’ve never studied finance you
never worked in finance you’ve just interviewed professionals in
finance and so you’re now you’re writing a book about financial advice and she
goes yeah and I didn’t love that answer I remember pushing a little bit and then
kind of giving up on getting something good because I figure it’s also not my
job to make you look good if you’re on my show I will try to put you in your
best light but if you actively are un selling yourself because you’re giving
pretty lame answers I’ll push a little bit that’s to your benefit but if you
can’t measure up and that eventually it’s on you so I let that one go and
then I said so give us some of your top advice this is years ago I don’t do
questions like this anymore I said give us some of your top advice
for people that are just trying their finances together and learn about
this and she goes well you have to buy my book to do that and I said well no no
one’s going to be interested in your book because we have no idea what you
actually have to offer other than a promise that we’re going to learn
something if we shell out money but there’s a lot of free advice online
including advice that you’ve given during your time at blah blah blah
Network so you’re probably going to want to give us something more than just a
teaser about what’s in your book and she was like she was like oh uh this is
edited right I said yeah she goes so I don’t want to give away everything in my
book and I said trust me the value is not what’s in your book nobody cares
most people who buy in aren’t gonna read it and she was really offended and I
said this is just a statistic I think it’s like 80% of books that are
purchased are never read. l can tell you how many people have come up
to me like oh my god I have one of your books which means. It’s still shrink wrapped. Very different oh I read this particular book of course all the time.
And look I’ve got a hundred unread books in my phone you’re audible yeah it
doesn’t mean I’m never gonna read it it just means that I’m probably never gonna
read it but I want to really bad but but it’s normal but she was so offended
by that and I thought oh my gosh you’re you’re gonna get offended but you want
people to buy your book but then you also want that like you’re just setting
yourself up for disappointment here but the whole interview was just a tease of
this and she wouldn’t let it go so I eventually said hey look this isn’t
gonna work I’m not gonna air this cuz all you’re doing is teasing this book
and I’ve even had other people that don’t even have a book and they say well
eventually I’m gonna tell this story cuz it’s gonna be in my book and I said when
does that come out oh I haven’t written it yet and I go then you should be
pretty safe telling this story right now if you haven’t written it let’s say you
start in your book tomorrow this thing’s not coming out for three years you could
tell the story right now. It reminds me of when I wrote Steal the Show and I
wanted to buy the domain I remember this story yeah and it was
owned by someone who was just sitting on it so I sent him
an email said listen I’d love to buy it from you you know are you interested in
selling it and he wrote back he said no no because I have a million dollar idea
that you know that I’m planning on doing and I noticed that he bought the domain in the late 90s. Yeah
sure. So it’s like 2014 at this point? Yeah 15 years later. Yeah so I said it
just seems like you’ve been set on it for a long time I really don’t I don’t
mean I’m not intending to offend you but it seems to me like if you haven’t done
it in 15 years you’re never actually gonna do it so what’s it worth to you to
sell it right he’s like I just really don’t need a million dollars right now
yeah I went away so he said ah he said he comes back and goes well it’s a
million dollar idea I want to say that again
but I will sell it for $8,500 and I’m thinking okay is he just is he just a
some kind of brilliant salesperson like that is his routine yeah not bad but no
he really really meant it it was interesting to me and and I’m not I’m
not I don’t mean to be making fun of the guy I just I just think that you know
it’s it’s very helpful to be really honest with ourselves sure about who we
are where we are what we’re gonna do what we’re not going to do because I
just think it gets easier I mean look I’m 48 so you know I’m coming up on 50 and and even though life has got busier and almost more complicated
because as the the scale of our organization has grown and my family has
grown and the kids get older and all that kind of stuff I actually I actually
feel it’s a lot easier because I I feel like I know who I am. What’s easier
to be honest with yourself? Yeah it’s a lot easier to be honest with yourself
like I feel that it’s much more difficult to pursue your goals if you
have an outsized idea of what you’re capable of at the moment you know
sometimes people will call us up and say listen
my performing on stage is fantastic it’s fantastic my content is incredible
I just I just need a little bit of some tips like how to hack to get on more
stages and so you know we might say well when you do speak do you get offers to
speak again but you know either by the organization that brought
you in or from the people in the room? They’re so blown away they forget to
offer. Right and so if they say no well then it’s unlikely that they’re as
effective as they think because generally if you’re that effective
you’re getting two three four requests every time you’re giving a speech to go
somewhere else or you’re being introduced to somebody oh you got to go
you gotta meet and you know and so it’s very difficult I think to pursue big
goals without being really really honest. I think a lot of people don’t actually
want to do it like this domain that you bought from that guy eventually for I
assume eighty-five was that was the thing that kept him aside from the
promise of $8,500 that was probably the thing that kept him going to work
everyday going yeah but you know I’m not gonna be here forever one day I’m gonna
do my steal the show program and I have the domain already in everything so if
this, if my boss does this to me again
that’s it I’m doing my million dollar idea it was like the it’s the the dream
right it’s part of the dream so there’s no reason that he wanted to actually do
it because you could fail but as long as he never actually tried anything and I
think a lot of us probably have this somewhere in our psyche but but people
who’ve never built a business for example or have never actually gone and
tested themselves they’re gonna have something like that you know I remember
when I left my job, I used to be a Wall Street attorney when I left my job as a
lawyer to do my podcast and do the radio show us on Sirius XM satellite radio at
the time I remember thinking oh I better I better be careful with my money that I
got from from my law job because it’s going to take me at least six months to
get things rocking and rolling here and then it’s like fast forward seven years
I remember going I’m starting to get the hang of the whole thing you know
starting to make some money this is really great and maybe I’m slow but I
don’t think I’m that slow right I think most businesses take like years and
years and years to really get traction and go and if you’re thinking no no I
have an exception to the rule has that person running businesses before did
they have like what role did luck play? There’s always a lot always going to be
exceptions to sort of general rules yeah you know
there’s a big difference between dreams and fantasy. There is. So a dream is
something that you know is probably achievable. A fantasy is just an idea
it’s just an idea of who you could be it feels good though it feels really good
yeah so look I I’m the least perfect person
that you ever met I mean meaning I’m more broken than most
people. I just thought you meant you were like far down on the perfect scale but
still in the game. Oh yeah I’m perfect but I’m just not I’m like a 1 on the
top perfect I’m just not and I found I found it
easier to be effective or successful or to accomplish my goals when I stop being
so self-absorbed so egotistical and so impressed with myself. Yeah I can see that I should try that you should try that shot no but I
mean look we’re all driven by ego in one way shape or form yeah definitely but
every day I’m reminded by you the people that you know work with us here at HPS
or our students or just someone on the street that you know that I that I’ve
got a lot to learn and one of the things I like about you is that you’re always
learning. Oh yeah. You’re always out there going ok how do this what do I do this
what do I do this so I appreciate that and it inspires me personally. Well I
appreciate that look I you’re one of the most you’re one
of the best coaches that I’ve ever had for anything so that’s why I keep coming
back. Thank you. Yeah yeah you and Amy both. Yes Amy, she’s incredible.
So one I just wanted to do one one last topic I want to talk you got married recently? I
did. A year and a half ago was it? Yes you’re year and half. And your wife is much more
charming and much more intelligible oh but yes she is so what’s changed in your
life since you fell in love knew that you were gonna spend the rest
of your life with Jen? Yeah you know a lot I remember in fact I’ve had this
thought recently as well if I’d known how sort of settled
and relaxing being married is in it basically as a guy anyway I should just
speak for myself but you should your focus shifts from oh my god I got to do
all this stuff and I have to go out and meet people and I got to go out at night
I got to do this and I gotta work on my everything and I gotta have cool clutter
you just go okay I’m this person and I are clicked like this yeah I got to take
care of myself and be healthy like I don’t want to just suddenly blow up and
get fat and like dress like a slob but the you kind of like realize that you’re
no longer having to put on a show for everybody at all times and then all of
that energy that I had doing that I went oh let me just focus on my business and
all these other important things that are required for building a life and
then business went from like this to like and I went oh god I should’ve got
married and I was like 22. I mean not really
right you gotta wait till you’re ready first. And you gotta marry the
right person. yeah marrying the wrong person I’ve
heard is one of the I’ve heard this and seen studies and stuff and I don’t it’s
one of the worst things that can ever happen to you and to your business and
financially and all this stuff if you marry somebody who’s if it just doesn’t
work out it can be like okay it could be like a stumbling block but if you marry
somebody in they’re actually toxic or and you grow apart in a way that isn’t
healthy it can torpedo your finances, it can torpedo your business your career the level of stress it can shorten your
life span it’s all this bad stuff that can happen so yes you have to marry the
right person but had I known how I would feel afterwards I would have kind of
pulled the trigger a little bit earlier on everything because I I dated Jen for
five years before or four and a half years it was like in retrospect I didn’t
need that much time to make the decision I had made a decision a long time before
that and then I wanted I went through the phase of wanting to be sure and then
I went through the phase of well I’m getting away with this so I’m just gonna
not do anything for a while until her mom
like eh what’s even my parents were like what’s the plan man and I was just like
yeah I’m just being indecisive not even that I wasn’t sure I was just like I
don’t want to plan a wedding it’s just a pain now it’s expensive so all these
excuses. I’m just I’m just I’m trying to imagine you planning a wedding and it’s
not happening. No that’s what Jen did all the work. So let’s just wanna be clear
about that you didn’t actually have to do anything I didn’t have to do that
got it and it wasn’t like the the guy of fear of committing on my friends have
this fear of commitment that wasn’t part of it at all it was just a lot of like
the the hullabaloo and the logistics and everything and also there was a part of
me that was like I want to be even more stable in my business and before I get
married because then it’ll be I’ll feel better about the whole thing
honestly that was backwards thinking you you get settled in your personal life
and you get stable as you grow into the person that you know you’re supposed to
be and then together you can grow the business it’s taught and I know you’ve
experienced this as well like looking like the past four years five years for
you the guys have been huge. It’s interesting because you know so I
started on my own in 2003 in the first decade of my career I focused on Book
Yourself Solid and I was very fortunate to have modicum of success and yet I
didn’t have the same kind of Drive that I have now
because. That’s funny you’re cuz younger they say young it’s young guy oh you’re
never gonna have Drive like you had your 20s. No not at all you know there wasn’t
as much of a why behind it. Do you know because when I you know at first
it’s like okay well I want the the approval and the acknowledgement for
having right I want to rip this incredible book yeah yeah I want
whatever and you know that that that passes pretty quickly you realize you
can never have enough of that to be satisfied and and so you know I was
pursuing and working and doing my thing but then when Amy and I and Amy and I
met and then when we became a couple the whole world shifted.
In in a way for me that that gave me much more purpose. And that was an
incredible feeling and not something that I expected I always thought I was
an ambitious person right but it’s changed dramatically and it’s not that
now I feel like oh I want to go out and conquer the world it’s I want to build
something together yeah that has some meaning do you know? Yess And it’s just so
like getting to what you work with Jen yeah we’re ready to get to work with the
person that you love is incredible Paul Newman was
being interviewed and he was asked listen what’s your secret
because you and Joanne Woodward have been together forever and that’s very
unusual in Hollywood that’s just a guy at that level man right so he said oh
that’s easy he said two things respect and lust Wow
and I said I get that because the respect piece I’m not gonna we’re not
gonna talk about the lust piece here but the respect piece is huge so if you if
you don’t fully and deeply respect the people that you’re living with the
people that you’re working with it is very very very hard to do great work.
Yeah I often worry because you you know you wonder is the other person gonna get
sick of this you you probably don’t have to worry about that I mean you guys are
both cut out for this kind of work but you also you just never know yeah sure
maybe one person’s gonna get sick of it yeah and in your situation also you and
Amy share the limelight a little bit Jen’s Jen likes being behind the scenes
but how much does somebody really just want to stay behind the scenes forever I
don’t know but maybe the business evolves it’s hard to say yeah what
ginseng is I would I would actually like to be behind the scenes yeah meaning
I’ve been on you know out in front for a long long time and and I love doing that
work certainly but I love developing the people who work here because I really do
think that that’s the reason we exist to develop the people who work here which
seems often it’s often surprising to me because you think well isn’t in the
board of your business just to serve the customer and my feeling is that if we
help develop the people who work here so that they achieve what they are capable
of achieving they’re going to do the same thing
for all the people that we serve yeah and that I find really really
meaningful. You know I I feel like that’s a really noble goal that most businesses
overlook they’re not thinking about their employees as much more than a tool
to serve their customers at the best in the best case yeah often they’re
thinking that this is to generate money so that I can live a nice life well this
you know one of the great things about our work is that and similar to yours I
suppose is that we get to work with really really interesting people right
with really interesting ideas and are really masterful and visionary in their
particular area and so one of the people who were working with you know one of
the things he talks about is the the the is being really clear about the reason
that your business exists and and he said I think the reason a business
exists is to develop the people there and I went that’s what that’s what we’ve
been doing I didn’t never had language for it and never understand had words
for it and then when he said that I went of course and then it was a it made me
focus even more on it I mean like that’s my focus in the work. And and and so
that I find very inspiring and you know you over the years you you want to do
different things you want to learn about different things and you know and
challenge yourself in different ways yes well that’s why that’s where we’re here
Jordan Harbinger I love you man you the best likewise thank you I like that hat
yeah Jordan Harbinger Show. Jordan That’s right and you
should definitely go to what listen to his show he also does a lot of video
that’s right of the show that’s right and they can get that on youtube or at
the site? They can find it on the site it’s honestly on YouTube Jordan
Harbinger or you can go to Jordan and it will
forward to my channel Fancy. Everybody should do that by the
way so yeah Jordan Harbinger Show in any podcast app or Spotify nice all right.
That’s Michael Port from Heroic Public Speaking HQ. Actually this is just a
small studio here at HQ we got about 10,000 square feet and we hope that
someday you’ll come here and train with us bye for now.

1 thought on “Interview with Podcasting Master Jordan Harbinger

  1. 2:18 in….Brilliant nugget Michael: …"work really hard every day and it's easy to lose sight of what you're doing and the whole point of it. "….. Love it…Thank you.

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