So remember, We’ve got to say what’s going on? Hi, guys. Uh, blood. Everybody could make it. Um, Welcome. Welcome. Uh, my name is knuckle kind of up, and this is the first episode of the involved reporting podcast, which is so exciting, like so it happened just like out there. People engaging, right? I’m definitely ready. Um, so, yeah, Like I said, my name is Knuckle cut about, and I’m joined by my lovely co host and our guest for today. So I’m joined Monroe. I’m one of the inbound professors on the Hub Spot Academy team. I focus primarily on report earnings, since this is the podcast about reporting and conversion and advertising, kind of everything that gets orphaned ends up in my bucket. So we’re also joined by a hops one academy favorite. And that would be I’m Kyle Jepson. I’m the sales professor at Hub Spot Academy. But I’ve also been teaching a lot of stuff about the flywheel recently. That sort of somehow fall into me and I’m running with it. Yeah, a lot of videos. So many video. You’re like, Come spot famous. You have a bubblehead. Yeah, right. Well, in recently, it’s starting to feel like I can’t be on a video unless I say the word fly. Yeah, exactly. That’s right. T up. What? We’re what we’re talking about today. So, you know, where do we start? Let’s start at the beginning. So ah, while ago I was finally given the ability I had, I had the time to start to focus on the Hub spot reporting tools. And it was interesting because our jobs what reporting tools to be fully transparent are like constantly being listed as a top pain point for our customers. And it’s constantly in, like the top 10 list and driving tickets and support that are driving questions and service is And I really started Thio try to figure out why that waas And that’s when we said, like, See that Nicole? Yeah, no. So I guess to fully introduce myself because joy did very, very well. I didn’t, um, I work as a customer success manager, so naturally I’m actually talking to our customers on a strategic level. Every day on reporting almost always comes up. It’s such a big I would say it’s pretty high percentage of conversations and you know whether it’s the support tickets or lawyer MPs scores. You know, it certainly is, uh, something that needs to be tackled in generally, from my perspective, joy, I want hear your perspective. And we’re definitely gonna, you know, quizzes, Kyle in a bit. Um, you know, it’s either the case off they, you know, our customers don’t have the data, and so they have a problem with it, you know, without reporting. It’s not relevant. The data that they’re collecting as a result to their business. And so that presents a problem. Or they just don’t know how to use the tools boards combination of all three, which is a beast. Yeah, but I think that’s a that’s a really good point. So we kind of set out Thio to figure out, like, what is it about the tools that are causing, like, this insistent source of pain for our customers? Really? And if we could try to solve for that with a lot of the spot academy education and what we found was really that you know, it was those three sources, it was that the data wasn’t there. They weren’t tracking the right data, or by the time they you know, got to the reporting tools. They kind of realized that they didn’t have either the skills or the data they needed to report effectively. And so interestingly enough, we flipped it on its head. And we’re like, All right, so there’s a cover of Hub Spot users that aren’t successful with the tools What, what makes someone very successful with the tools? And it was interesting because in all the cases, Nicole and I like found that there were consistent behaviors on the people that were driving the most success with a spot reporting tools, and it was very much along the lines of, you know, they were incorporating inbound at every kind of stage in their business seems like a no brainer. But it was really important that Inc of Inbound was also really gold to ribbon. So they had this, like sense of shared goals across their company. Then there was the fact that yet their their data not only did they know where their data was, but they were managing it kind of effectively, whether completely in hub spot or by and large and hub spot, because there were certain there are certain things with integrations that get a little complicated. They were really starting to manage their data and one centralized location, so that by the time they got to reporting, they were able to kind of visualize effectively. But also asked questions that their data set and hub spot could effectively answer Yeah and Elsa. And it suggests, you know, with those users as we got together to start walking on this joint, that the reporting doesn’t happen in a bubble right or through an explosion of creative energy, right? Right. It’s It is a constant process. I mean and disclaimer. That’s the framework. You know, you’re mopping your flywheel, right? You’re implementing involvement. Every layer, your business. You’re defining your goals, you’re managing your data and then you’re visualizing those of the four steps of the framework. But more importantly, it is a constant process. It’s not a one day workshop where after you come out of it, you ready to go Totally. See, it happens over time. Yeah, and so so much has to go right for you two. Get to your report and have it be the exact kind of data and report that you need to answer your question. And so that’s kind of what we’re going to spend this kind of miniseries. Podcast thing kind of unpacking is thes thes types of behaviors that you can kind of take up an implement to ensure that your reporting effectively because would I found just especially when talking to customers is that, you know, if you ask a majority of them like, what is your reporting strategy? They don’t have one. And I think that’s that’s something that’s e don’t. But it’s true, essentially, like people are thinking about reporting as something that is entirely reactive, and that’s that’s exactly there. There’s a process there. And so we’re going to spend this kind of Siri’s unpacking the different behaviors that we’ve found that have identified users to be successful. And, uh, yeah, I really hope people can kind of implement them on dhe, uh, effective reporters. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, like, we hope that you know the framework will be will make things easier for our customers to basically understand how to do kind of business intelligence and reporting within up spot or with top spot. Um, you know, in terms of how many episodes were probably hoping that with four stages to come straight to episodes per stage. So he’d episodes. We will be reaching out and, you know, having some assets for customers to use some back to us way. Also, have an email that we’re gonna talk about the end of the episode s O, that if people want to actually take the assets, use them and gets up to feed back from us e mail us, we’ll send a response back and give them some information of what they’re doing, right? Maybe what they need to tweak if they need to tweak anything. But hopefully what we can do is just provide a perspective and kind of guide People in the right direction from the our unique perspectives of kind facing and then from your perspective, also treat curating at creating instructional design and educational content. So then, just to review what we found for reporters to be successful in this spot is again mapping your flywheel, implementing inbound every every stage of your business, defining your goals, ensuring that your team has a shared sense of purpose. Managing your data in hub spot. Whether that’s integrations or native to Hobbs Bond for men or both, you on, then visualizing your data Really unpacking, like how has has the nitty gritty of reporting work? And I think that’s usually what people associate with reporting. Um, but often it’s just a piece of the puzzle. So let’s dive in. So we’re gonna start? Of course, where you should start the beginning. We’re going to start with this flywheel bit. We’re gonna start with implementing inbound every stage of your business. So that is why Kyle you? Because we’re gonna talk about the elephant in the room, right? Like we’re going to talk about the f word. And that is people are freaking out about this concept of flywheel. And it’s so interesting, right, cow, Because this is something we’ve worked closely on. Especially like in the inbound, sir. Right. This concept of flywheel has been around almost a year, a year since in bed last year with the fancy, uh, fancy Brian Halligan fly. Well, so it is pretty funny. It is. Okay, there’s a story there. First we’re gonna weigh you want t o talk about before we get into, like, stage stage props? Because I think that that’s also something we want to impact right now. Let’s just throw it over. Kyle. Kyle, What is the flywheel? The fibulas? A new way of of conceptualizing your business of of measuring the success of any aspect of your business. And you mentioned people are freaking out, and I think there’s several really good reasons for that. First of all, nobody knows what the heck of flywheel is right. The first time I ever heard anyone really talk about a flywheel. I mean, my dad always worked on cars and apparently cars have a flywheel in there. I don’t know what it does on then hell again and internal meetings started talking about. There’s this thing called a flywheel. And Jeff Bezos has talked about it and some other people have talked about and like, it would be better if we stop thinking of businesses in terms of a funnel and start thinking in terms of flying. Well, what do you think? And what I thought was What if I were you? I know what a funnel is, right? What? What is it? Like all these slides you keep showing it just looks like a circle. How is it different from late? Why don’t we call it a wheel or a cycle. And so, um, you mentioned that the inbound certification we want to overhaul the inbound certification. Thio Thio, bring this idea into it in a line with it. The droid was in that project. I was in that project, a few others, but the task of creating a lesson on explaining what the flywheel is fell to the guy who didn’t know what a flywheel was. And I started doing all sorts of research on flywheels and remember that meeting and it turned out we were like, no one wants to do it, Kyle, I just like I really felt very strongly the idea will never take hold unless people know what a flywheel. So I started researching it myself, and I certainly fly Meals are pretty cool, and they can actually be a lot of different things. The definition we always give is that it’s a machine that stores rotational energy, and I think that actually conjures the wrong image in the mind. Um, I was at the Museum of Science here in Boston a couple of days ago, Toby. They have They have a real yeah. Yeah, and they have. I think it’s a real flywheel there, and it’s this enormous cylinder that probably weighs a ton or two, and it’s just turning very slowly. It looks nothing like the images we put on. But if you know those little cars that instead of you back him up and there’s a rubber band indigo, but they’re the kind that you could go like zoo. That’s a flight on the way that works is on the axle. Inside did a lot of Internet reason. You need physics on one of the axles in the car, usually the back one. You have the tiny little metal axle in the tiny little plastic wheels, and then you just take a thick, heavy round metal thing and put it on the axle. Okay, kind of like a just a really thick, heavy ring that proportionally to the rest of the car, weighs a lot. It’s still pretty small moves, like some heavy metal, and so, as you turn it, you are rolling the card and pushing it and making those wheels turn. But that that heavy wheel in the middle Newton tells us, you know, things that are in motion Wednesday in motion, and the more right you get the more inertia you have. And so, like the that little heavy wheel inside is spinning fast enough that it can just keep propelling the car. That’s also a flywheel and so fly meals like they look a lot of different ways. They behave a lot, but this basic concept is that you get something that’s heavy and you started spinning. And if there’s if you have it on like ball bearings or something, it’ll keep spinning for a really long time, right? I always imagined, you know, though, the things you get fares where you like blow on them and they well, they sort of look like fans. I always was just like That’s a flywheel. I guess that’s not even remotely but, you know, And apparently we learned that two things. One we were able to check off the box that Isaac Newton could be mentioned on our podcast. They’re done great and to Kyle is a physics teacher. Never took physics, really? So it’s like this feels like weird for me. Physics, you know, I like my butt you spoke to. And then once I took calculus, I was like, No, we’re done. Yes. So, like What way? Yes, I’m thinking right that traditionally it is a machine that is storing rotational energy. The concept of the car’s good. Yeah, and that’s the important part. That what? And that’s why I think the flint the flywheel is actually a better metaphor than like a wheel or cycle, because if you have something that’s a flywheel and you started spinning, it will keep spinning. Yep, right. Whereas if if you just have a normal like a little matchbox or hot Wheels car, you try to spend the wheels, they they’ll steal, state a few rotations and then be done. Where is if you have a flywheel? You started going and it will just keep going, and that’s that’s the difference. We’re really trying to get Thio when you think about a traditional funnel, Um, especially in the context of, ah, reporting podcasts. I don’t want to cast any aspersions on the idea of a funnel, generally, because with any conversion process, any sales process, you’re gonna have this this stair step. You know where you have a lot of people here and fewer people here in European, and it’s shaped like a funnel, and someone makes that’s to call it a funnel, right? It’s the best way to visualize. Yeah, and and and in moving to the flywheel, we don’t mean to say that’s ineffective or bad way of measuring things. We don’t mean to deny the fact that that’s a reality that’s always going to exist. The big thing funnels, Miss. And if you think about a real funnel in the in the natural world, if you’re pouring oil into your car, still in the car yeah, exactly, then then what you’re doing is you’re taking this big stream of fluid and you’re narrowing it down to a little stream so you don’t spill it everywhere, right? But But the thing is like, once you stop pouring what your oil can is empty or or your cars, it’s whatever the funnel just stops right. You might get a couple trips coming out, but there’s there’s no sense that that you’ve built up anything that can sustain itself at all, and hopefully in your business, that’s not the case, right? Hopefully, if if your entire company just went on vacation for a month, you’re hopefully things will still keep running for a little bit, depending on the business. You’re like it’ll vary a lot depending on how high touch you are and things, but. But there’s still going to be something there. It’s not like your business will just cease to exist. If you’ll come back from vacation after a long weekend, you can probably pick up where you left off and not start from scratch. Where is this idea of a funnel is the funnel would be empty. You would have no customers, you would have nothing, and you would have to have to start all over. And that’s such an important point to because something that you keep kind of bringing up. Bringing up this like this is a business model, high level kind of way to think about your business and its relationship with its customers first, since like something that is very much more aligned with like, internal processes. And this is this is a question I get all the time because reporting funnels are so core when thinking about data management that I think it’s important that you differentiate the two from the get go. You know, the flywheel is something that is how you’re going to continue to sustain an inbound business over time versus the function of a funnel at the end of the day is looking at conversion data. You’re looking kind of like how well you’re encouraging users to take particular actions, which they can work in tandem. But a funnel isn’t an effective way to think about your business temperature and to give a concrete example of that for my own world, which is sales. Every company that has a multi stage sales process is still going to have a funnel shape there be stepped down from. But the real problem is that if you look at that funnel and you think that’s the whole story, right, you start to miss things right. And that’s why we get into this world where it’s very easy for salespeople to push and push and push and push and sell things to people who don’t really want them and then slam the door and be done and and think that I hit my quota. So it’s okay where in reality, that person on the other side of the door now has a product that doesn’t do what they wanted to do or that they didn’t want in the first place. and they feel they’ve been used. And they take to the Internet and tell their friends like, Don’t do business with this company and their friends Listen. And so that that little sales rep who 10 20 years ago could happily rip people off and push people to do things they didn’t want to do without any repercussions at all. Now suddenly can’t find anyone to do business with because everybody, the secrets out, everyone you on, that’s That’s the real thing. The flywheel is trying Thio to capture not only that negative energy of like, Hey, if your customers air speaking badly about you, they’ll scare prospects away, but also the positive energy that comes in the opposite scenario, right? Someone has such a great experience with your sales team. Feel like they were really aligned with them, get a product that they love that does exactly what they hoped it would. Any weaknesses were like told ahead of time, so there are no unhappy surprises. They take to the Internet and tell all their friends This is awesome. You should drive that sales rep is living on Easy Street, right, because instead of having to go out and find new prospects. All these good fit prospects were in the network of the person they salty were coming and saying, Hey, I want to try this thing. It’s a good school John Dick wrote a really good blood post about this. Where he was comparing Germans should say, John Dick of possible marketing wrote a really good blood post about this, where he was saying he was so used to the funnel for so many years that when Brian Halligan started talking about it, he just didn’t really understand it, then thought about it just saying, Well, today’s business is what Kyle is saying. It’s word of mouth. It’s much more conversational. It’s much more natural to follow somebody on its relationship with its relationship building where you know, if you if you sell a product with it, let’s just say right on dhe jury. You really like, you know, Kyle and you guys are friends and Kyle talks about it and raves about it. Well, it’s more likely that you’re gonna go to the sales rep that Kyle worked with, And so, yeah, I want to buy your widget because Kyle just talked about it, talked it out and I think it’s important to know, too, that, um, some people, sometimes this is painted in very bright colors like the final is dead. You don’t even say that, but like I think it’s important to think of. This is purely additive, right? Like whatever good work the funnel concept is doing for you. Great shape that. But let’s build onto it. What we’re really doing is we’re zooming out on whatever. Finally you’re focused on, whether that’s the conversion rate on your website or your sales process or whatever that may be resuming out and giving you a larger context of Hey, look, there’s a story of the people before they come in the funnel and there’s a story of the people after they come out the bottom of the funnel and the two stories are related right? Those people are affecting each other in a way that if you’re just thinking of it as a funnel, doesn’t it can’t really capture it. Definitely. I think this is a good segue way into there are these concepts of force and friction when it comes to the funnel, and I think again you add more terminology already talking about marketing. Juergen, Um where do you the concepts of force in friction coming so again, if we’re thinking about you know, my favorite example is the little car toy. Because I had one of those car toys and that was the one that when I came across like that Oh, I just car. So if you think about that, right, if you want to make that car go faster, you want to make it go farther? Um, there are two real ways you could do that. One is adding Maur force, which just means faster, harder, whatever. That’s gonna make it go. Um, the other is removing friction. So if you could go into that car and give it ball bearings, oil the gears a little bit whatever think, then it will go farther and faster, left, obstacles right s so basically in the one way you’re giving it Maur energy and speed in the first place from the other angle, you’re making that energy and speed last longer. You’re increasing your efficiency so that that makes sense to me. Like, you know, the car analogy was always something I thought of when I was thinking about the flywheel alignment I feel a little, but let’s talk about it in a context of an actual business, because we have, for example, you know, some manufacturing customers, I’m sure, but, you know, not all of our customers are in the manufacturing industry somewhere incest somewhere in construction, somewhere in hospitality. Somewhere in I can name 1,000,000 examples, but you get my point. You know, somewhere here, give us an example of, like where you could see and point out Yep, this is this person’s flywheel. Or here’s the forces or some examples of a Force Forces versus friction. Yeah, just keep it General, before we happened, any sort of specifics. I think the easiest way to think of force is the investments you make in your in your business. Not just like financial. Certainly. If you allocate all your budget thio sales, then like your customer service might not be awesome, right? Your marketing and website experience might be, but your sales team will probably do great. Yeah, And if you look at that and you realize Wait, maybe we reallocate some of this money somewhere else. We re budget. That’s one way thio to spread force around. But your money is it is a fairly fixed, like you. Really only bad budget over here by taking it away on 10,000,000 right? Exactly. And so I think it’s important to think of investment in a broader sense, right? Like you’re the employees that you are most invested in training. Who are the employees that you’re You’re trying to take care of them in such a way that they stick around a long time, right? That’s also a force because you’re happiest. Employees were gonna be your best employees. They’re gonna give the best experience to your to your to your customers. And so you know, if if all of the perks are going thio the people in your C suite for a lousy example um, that’s not gonna be a cz good for your customers. As if you have really happy frontline employees who are just eager Tonto question to help answer questions. Help people see you because and again just to kind of tie what Carl was saying. Remember, this is not just thinking about the the traditional funnel model, which was Here’s the marketing funnel. Getting leads to be qualified is traditional sales model to get people to close his customers, but also okay, warrant after. Right. Hence that circular motion saying Yep. I want those happy customers hopefully happy to talk about us, Maurin. A positive life that will spin that wheel further for e force. Yeah, um, you know, team cars, more and more people to come around, right? And so that’s That’s the force. Peace. The friction piece is really they’re a couple different ways. You can think about it. The one I think makes the most sense and is the most applicable across industries is looking at your internal processes, right? If in order, if I’m on the support team and jury calls in with a problem, I want to help you solve this problem. But I’ve got to get permission from my manager and get a form signed in triplicate like I’m just gonna tell you. Sorry, can’t help you, right? It’s not going to be worth the energy for me and like, that’s probably a ridiculous example, but not actually on. So, like, you want to make it as easy as possible for your for your especially your front line, your customer facing employees to make things easy on your customers whether that’s, you know, reducing the amount of process in the first. We don’t need triplicate forms idea. You know, whatever you could do that afterward or giving them tools, whether that’s technology or whatever it may be to help them do their jobs. Better to find the customer information they need. Thio make whatever changes. Just empowering those sorts of people is great. And then, I mean, don’t for your back office right you don’t want You know, the number of interactions your customers have directly with your accounting team are probably very few. But those can make or break your relationship with right. Like if they get to the counting team in the accounting team doesn’t care about them at all. And light. There are all these fees for no apparent reason. That’s that’s friction to on DSO you gotta If you can align everyone internally around doing what’s best for the customer, just make it as easy as possible for them to do that. Worry Maura about your customers experience and their happiness than about your internal, whatever it is that you write up on, and I’m sure you and I mean I know you think about it in the context of sales, you know, removing friction for sales. I mean, what does that look like? You know, Is it Is it like this similar example about a customer support that you were talking about? Where? Because, yeah, that’s really important, because if and it might have been, you know, if it was you, let me know. So I once actually like, heard that like the flywheel, it is effective to identify, like force like what’s working. But oftentimes, like companies don’t need to be told what’s working. They kind of have a general sense, right? Like good and in sales, specifically like forces. What sales were good, right? You hire sales teams who can force through the deal’s push and let’s not give up and go on go. At most sales organizations, I’m willing to bet are maxed out when it comes to force. You know, they’re they’re spending all the budget they could get their hands on. They’re hiring all the people they can get. They’re doing everything they can have the best possible sales team, razing the quotas, ratcheting up like the commission, whatever they can. D’oh that force. Lee. Chances are whoever you are whatever company you’re at you. You’ve done force if anything too much right and and where you’re gonna get Maur benefit for your sales team and for you. The rest is focusing on that friction piece. And we’re actually getting ready to launch a new certification course called Friction the sales Teaching Sales Leadership. How Thio. Nice little plug in that. How thio take the flywheel and and use that as a way to evaluate their sales organization and find places to remove friction. And so some of that is, you know, enabling your sales reps to spend more of their time selling. It was sort of a famous statistic floating around the Internet that sales reps in general only spend something like 30 or 35% of their time selling, which is insane, right? The rest of their time is spent on data entry on meeting internally. Like all these other areas, they have to d’oh and like, if you could just remove that friction and let them spend 70 or 80 or 100% of their time selling already today, you know, without without hiring any new people without injuring your budget. Suddenly you’re getting more for your money right on and then also aligning them with with their target buyer the things they they want. If you can make your incentive structure such that what the salespeople want is your customers to succeed, that’s gonna be really good. You know, Andi, I’ve heard of some companies I believe helps a lot, and other companies have this claw back. And where you close a deal? Great, you get a commission. But if three months from now that just then that commission comes out of that page, right, you’re giving that money back that sense now? Oh, I’m not just focused on closing this person today. I’m focused on at least making them happy enough to stick around through the cloth. Heck, fear, right? Definitely. And the final piece we talked about in the certification is using training and coaching and transforming your sales organization by by fostering a culture of learning, which is important because sales rep so often our heads down, working, working on and again, you know, 65% of that working working is doing stuff that doesn’t really matter. So they’re sweating and, like trying to work. You try and make it and being ableto take time to evaluate how you’re doing. Look at some reports. Yes, where you can approve is gonna Is that hurting son is gonna make a big difference, right? Right. And pander to my audience here, I guess. Like, how are you going to know where the friction is? A lesser unless you have some visibility and yet, right. Like. And if you look it at a sales pipeline funnel chart for each one of your reps, you’ll see drop offs in different spots, right? Like, whoa, Chuck over here, eyes doing really poorly on step three, where everybody else is doing really well. So why is that why life is and how it could be Andres missing. Whereas if you don’t have that visibility and you just sit down in your monthly wonder one with Chuck and say so how is it going? You’ll be like, fine, Great. You’re next month. Yeah, so when it comes to and you’re like and this could be like, sales specific. Um, but also, just in general, like, how do you advise people? And it can be that we turn to kind of reporting as a topic or just otherwise just start going about evaluating whether in their cells process or not like where their biggest points of friction are. You know, there are the metrics that you should think about in terms of your business revenues and a big one, but also in terms of just like net new leads traffic to your website that’s gonna help you kind of evaluate the health of your business as a whole. Now you can call him Health Check Metrics. You can call them key metrics. You can kind of It’s going to differ. Company. The company hub SWAT themselves called some health check metrics, but it’s really kind of evaluating, like, how well are your team’s attracting, engaging or delighting customers? And that’s gonna vary depending on the handoff and what tinder working with. So in the case of marketing, for example, traffics a big one. Also, referrals like reviews on your website. Um, it’s really going to be first establishing baselines where you are now and then your goals where you want to be, and then using metrics to kind of solve for what’s working and what’s not across your business. So I think that if you’re a new business starting out the first thing that the best thing you can do is start gathering data on what’s working. Um, just kind of establishing, like, where are you currently? That’s a That’s a huge problem for current hubs. But customers when they come on is having no data to kind of determined, um, how they’re doing. Um, from there, I think it starts to become kind of a parent. As you start to establish those dashboards. Look at trends over time. Yeah, you know, like from just like experience, working with customers starting with handoffs is kind of like the big win in terms of identifying especially points of friction. Because chances are especially if you’re moving from a funnel model, those hand offs are going to be a problem. Yeah, um, and I’m sure you have experience with this having done like the sales enablement certification. But, I mean, we even see it just in that in the sense of those clawbacks sales thio sales to service or service to marketing these air key areas that, in a funnel centric business model, have been kind of left to the wayside for a long time. Because as long as you were a marketer and you hit your you know, your mo fu boat. Tell me. Oh, yeah, right. I know you like I know you hit those metrics and you kind of like, hit those conversion rights. You were funny. It was just And then as long as you like, the next team then hit their conversion. Don’t best based on, like, industry standards, whatever that means. You were fine. And then it was kind of this ether of red gray area. And I think it’s important to realize Andi, I never thought of putting it quite this way before. But based on what you just said, like, whatever team around, whatever it is you’re doing, the bottom of your funnel is the top of someone else’s Exactly right. And And if you’re not paying attention to that fat whoever’s downstream from you and since it’s a circle, that’ll be you eventually eyes really gonna suffer. Definitely. And I think so. Those those handouts I don’t have a really good name for them. I just call them handoff Sweet. I mean, like, at least from a customer facing perspective, I mean, it usually is. You know, that’s how customers talk about it. It’s a It’s a marketing handle. Marketing says Handle sales to service handle Um, and I think you know the service is marching. Handoff is like it’s it’s always been there. But I feel like it’s been largely ignored because it’s like, I don’t know, it’s our customers. And now you have, like, kind of new terms, like customer marketing, Papa like, No, this is already this Always been here like your customers talk to each other. It’s just that now we’re in the stage where, you know, your customers could be loud. They could be the loudest people in the room. And if you’re not kind of inspiring, you know the good ones to come to the top in lessening. How many bad ones there. You got a problem on your hands? Yeah, the best. I mean, the best type of meetings I usually have, you know, are those meetings where you are talking about a lead 100 process? Let’s say from attract to engage or to delight, back to attract, right? Yeah. Thanks for the flywheel. Where you know they have that. Yeah. They have that epiphany where they’re, like, moments problem. I need to remove this friendship. Yeah, right. And it Usually it’s the Kyle’s point. It’s not. I don’t need to put extra investment into this. I need to actually view the amount of investment that I’ve actually put into this in the existing infrastructure. And you need to, you know, remove the friction that is, remove the obstacle in place. That’s typically, I mean, I mean, obviously, in a customer facing perspective, it’s It’s really much more technical on there. And But if you think about it strategically, which is usually kind of my conversations, it’s like, Well, why is you know, only X percent of your marketing quote aliens, only going to say right wise and more what you know why are only X percent of your opportunity’s closing, right? Why isn’t more right? Um, and I’m going back to, you know, completing the circle. Why’re ex custom X percent of customers not talking about you or why do X percent of customers not like you? Right? What is there pain point, You know, to put it bluntly, But I mean, you know, all of a sudden you just like seeing all three of those handcuffs. And then, you know, you’ve got somebody thinking it’s like, Oh, yeah, there’s a problem. Well, and I think, too, if you can zoom out a little bit, you’ll start to realize like they don’t have to be hand offs in the sense of, like, a relay race where it’s like, Yeah, I am this often. Then I stopped running, right? Yeah. Yeah. You can start to make the overlap. Like, where in the sales process is your customer support team introduced? Like, why should you wait until after the close and be like? Here you go through this stranger introduced them a little bit earlier like, Hey, you know, this is whoever you are. Strong intervention, however, but no, I just mean like you speaking to the customer. You decide to go with us. Yeah. You’re gonna have a full team. Yeah, right here. Here to help you or this dedicated individual or whatever, whatever it is in your business. So it’s not just like, thanks for money, right? So I mean, uh, sorry. Go ahead. Okay, so I have a hard pivot, so if you have something related, you should say it now. Well, I had a question, but question s Oh, my question is, you know, I’m thinking in terms of, you know, in terms of gold, because I had high levels, You know, my customers will make fun of me because that’s all they ever talk about with them, right? I’m just saying. Great. What’s your goals? What’s your metrics? You you were kind of just related. So talking about this flywheel is just saying great. I have understood that things that are making my business, you know, turn faster and faster. And I’ve also understood the things that are helping my business. No, it has to have as many obstacles. That’s a really poor way of saying forces in friction, right, long winded manner. Um, that’s why we got these neat turn thes and wonderful. And these wonderful guests, Uh what? How would you translate a flywheel or someone’s business model into, say great? It looks like this is your business goal. It looks like this is an identifiable metric that we need to start measuring. Well, hopefully, as we’re going back to this idea again, the flywheel is the zoomed out version of your finals connected together. Hopefully you can start to see where these hand offs aren’t working you know where way. Whereas, you know, there’s usually each individual funnel you have a sense of, You know, if you’re the sort of, um, if you’re like a service is company and you have the dedicated person who’s going out to give the service, you know, you can see Oh, they had this many people come over from sales. They did this money on site visits, they you know that whatever this money return a point. But you you may not see from that chart the drop off between the number of deals and videos and the number of people they actually connected with him. Where did those folks go, you know, and similarly more famously, perhaps between marketing and sales. As you were saying before you know why it’s sales, not contacting all these legal marketing. What’s happening to those people on? I think I think the jury’s point about starting with handoffs, those those are gonna be the biggest leaks because they were never part of any fun right stuff in between. And so once you get those figured out, you might start identifying other problems upstream somewhere, right? Like, oh, maybe if we introduce the customer support person or team earlier, this hand off would have gone much smoother. Oh, maybe, You know, we need some sort of review process for the leads marketing ascending sales to make sure all the actual good ones are being qualified. And we’re getting fewer bad ones. Yeah, I got to thinking about it in my head of, like, you know, let’s say there is a business call, love. I want to earn X amount of revenue and a metric being a marketing sales handle. What is that transition? How high is it? All right. Um, how high are the retention numbers? If we’re thinking post point of sale one word, right? Yeah. Okay. And if you could have reporting at every step and the big overview, then you can start connecting things. Theo Waigel, This thing way up in the marketing process, and we label this other thing way down in the service is process. And we made a couple of adjustments and sales and we could see all these things together are having this outsized influence. Yeah, I was undersold connected, Right? Right. People are able to start talking, whereas if the sales team is running their own experiments and the marketing team is doing everything and nobody knows anyone else is doing. Then everybody’s just doing random stuff. Yeah, like sales might say what? We cracked it. We had so many more marketing like No, actually, that was That was Yeah. So, actually, we need the budget. Really nice. If we could hire a second marketer, E i e. I think it’s important to keep in mind as you’re thinking about, like where the leaks are, look what’s going wrong and what their we experimenting on that you know, it is going to be largely dependent on like what your company is, like the exact metric and the exact business school is highly dependent, and that could be kind of frustrating at first, because it’s it’s attempting to be like, Okay, what’s the industry standard like? What’s the metric that everyone friend my competitors looking at? Yeah, and I think it was sort of going out on a limb here. Yeah, if if if you ever go look at any hub spot stuff about the flywheel, you’re going to see stages you just mentioned attract engaged a light. But I would I think the right thing for individual companies to do is to take that as their starting point and say like, Okay, how do we attract people? You do. We engage them. How do we convert them and then start to realize, like, you know what? I think we actually have 1/4 stage right there, and I think maybe these two, like the division is over here and like, Oh, we could measure these things. And as you iterating iterating iterating, you’ll get this flywheel that no longer looks like the hub spot. Branded attract, engage delight and inbound methodology. You’ll get this thing that actually describes Your company is on Lee relevant to your company to nobody else, but it’s super development company. That’s right, and this is now. Now you can start to see and you have a way to discover what those metrics are and and what the how it’s all working together and as you you’ll Bradley go through several versions of that over time. And you might think, Oh, you know what? There’s actually 1/5 stays here and you try and, like, actually that didn’t want to combine those, and I just I mean, your flywheel should be made out of Plato instead of carved in stone, right? Just like method and, like, play. Arrange it. And until this beautiful, disgusting Really? Yeah, Well, you’re not supposed to eat it. That didn’t happen. Ever. Okay, Like I was a little okay, like, you know, you know? Okay, But, see, that was the hard pivot kind. You did that so beautifully, just like organically. That’s the thing is that I think that people often confuse the fire Well, because they see the inbound methodology. And that’s like this stagnant notes, correct, engaged. But I think it is really important to think about, like, you know, it is ultimately going to be the, uh, reference. That’s not the word I’m looking for, but look, kind of like the Although that works, all of you, you’re going to use for your for your business. But you know, your business at the end of the day is going to be unique. So as you need to kind of alter that, use that as a guiding a starting point. But at the end of the day, like, you need to also think about adapting it to what really defines your business and your is authentic to your business. And that might not. I mean, of course, like the start using the inbound methodology is starting point and helps you ensure that you are remaining true to your customers. But also kind of those principles of inbound. But then kind of using that as that building point. That foundation for like, you’re actual flywheel is important, right? And and I think attract engaged to light is going to be, in some sense, relevant to every company. Right? Right. If we just give you, simplify it a blank circle inside, draw your flywheel, that would be a really hard ask for, like, what would that even mean? Right, But if using that like you said, it’s a starting point. Like here. Okay, here’s where do your customers come from. How do you find them? How did they find you with this gate Stays like Who are the humans on your team that are working with this humans out there? What? How was that communication happening? What sorts of metrics in we put on plays? Is there a formal sales process? Is it a self serve system like all that and then delight right when they actually get the product. What? What is success look like? What did it mean for someone to be happy that they purchased your mattress or your landscaping service is or your whatever it is right? And how do you then gather whatever positive energy is out there and direct it towards? He’s conducting more, right? And then once you start to answer those questions, that’s when you start realizing like, you know what? We have more stages. Here we have less stages. They’re we have this other entirely other thing over here, and depending on how many products and like how many different things you do, you might have multiple flywheels supporting each other, like just visualize it in whatever way makes the most sense to you. But use the tract. Engage delight as the jumping off point, and I think the best example to the state that I still like the most. So Kyle and I were also part of the team that, like Grated, who won Brian Huggins going so behind the scenes spoiler there. No one’s disappointed, but it was one of a charity who will remain unnamed. But, you know, they’re they’re fly, will they had kind of adapted this concept of the fly will to encompass, like their donors and their sponsors and all these different people that are involved with, like, effectively running a charity. And at the end of the day, it didn’t really look anything like the initial kind of attract engaged a light because there are these moving pieces, and it’s like an independent from each other, right, Because there and I think it was like I might be misremembering. But there were, like, two core components that were kind of working off of each other. And I think it is kind of it goes back to, you know, it is that springboard for you, because even across industries, it’s not gonna look the same. No, no. Yeah, well, And in the charity example, if I remember, they had won a flywheel for, like, here, the people who are giving us money. And here the people were helping, Right? Right. So, like, that’s two very different motions. Yeah. Yeah. You’re not gonna be asking for money from the same people you’re helping. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be a chair right now. Just be a business. And I think for a lot of a lot of places they might have, you know, a product arm and a service is arm, and maybe that’s one big circle. Maybe it’s two little circles, but that ultimately there are right and wrong answers. But the proof is in the pudding, right? You found the right answer. When you learn something about your company that you couldn’t have, it’s only in that it gives you insight, right? If it’s not giving you insight, then you haven’t done it right then it’s a circle on a piece, right? Well, no, it’s only effective. And then I think the barometer is, if you’re able to see Yep, this looks like our central business school. Just looking at all these insights together about the flywheel. It looks like it’s a retention goal of needing to retain X number of customers. It looks like it’s a revenue goal of attaining this much. It looks like here’s the key metrics, just based on what it says under attracting Agent Light or whatever their sub stages or creative stages. You want input in the middle. I’m gonna get a little better. It’s almost like it’s a report, my business, and then it’s only hopes no, uh, it’s only helpful if you can then action, but it’s true your flight was actually giving you your conversation. If you’re not driving, if it’s not driving action or inside, we’re telling you what’s working. What’s not, then It’s not set up correctly, and it’s kind of like start at the beginning in front of us because we both presented hugs, different hugs, which are have spot user user groups. Thank you. Um, where we both presented, you know, the framework. You know, both of these. And, you know, we didn’t get a one confusing question about the flywheel and either because we talked about it in a very, very simplistic way than what we just did here. But basically saying guys, just think of your business model. You know what’s working? Well, what’s not working, right? What are you getting out of it? Can you actually translate that into, you know, reporting strategy later down the line, right? Yeah. Physically the metaphor. I like a lot when it comes to you. Uh, the fly ball is I think of it in terms of, like, language learning, right? Like you got it. You gotta start kind of like a basis of vernacular, where it’s like you have to see like the flywheel is attracting each delight. And there’s this thing got force and this thing called friction that’s like, What’s working? What’s what. What’s not cool established? Uh, get that running. See how it maps your business, then, Okay, you see what’s going on. You kind of see how inbound is working with your business. Now let’s take it a step further. Let’s adapt to you. What? Let’s apply what you’ve learned about the flywheel and then kind of almost break it to fit the needs of your business. But it’s straight, but you’re mortifying it. You’re you’re structuring it to fit with what is your right, and then it’s like, Okay, so then you start to see more nuanced insight with your business. Maybe you do have five stages. Maybe it’s not just those three attracting. Actually, maybe your customer segment is very different. The product you sell et cetera. Then you get a little bit more you wants to. You know, you get a little bit more advanced and you can start to think of the flywheel more effectively in terms of how it applies to your business, and then you kind of continue to get more advanced and you actually have something that directly one. The one fits your business and potentially no one else is, Um, but you got you got to start with about methodology. That’s that’s where it’s like, very kind of simple and approachable. But then it’s like baby steps, you know, you have to build off that foundation. Similar, similar toward jury were saying earlier about you and Kyle sitting there with I can’t even imagine the number of papers for flywheels that you guys have to grade, you know, common woman way. Our jury jury is apparently a maniac because we are offering that ability a swell thio. Anyone listening or watching or both. Uh, yeah, it’s true. So, um, we have this handy, dandy alias way. Nichols smiling. If you can’t see, it’s actually hot off the press. Just set it up this morning. Um, and we’re going to be attaching, so this is going to live in the blogged for the first time. I I live other places eventually, but there’s gonna be a worksheet at the bottom where you can start to kind of map your flywheel, and we will look at it for you. You actually give you feedback, We’ll give you what you’re doing, right? Which may need a tweet. Yeah. Or just kind of initial thoughts when looking at your fly. Well, so there’s gonna be a downloadable asset, and if you want to email that Thio inbound reporting at hub spot dot com, we will take a look at your fly well, and we will email you back comments working with because I think, yeah, because again like and I’m sure you guys have mentioned it, I’m sure mentioned, you know, a lot of it is, you know, a lot of unwillingness to look at the flywheel from a customer’s perspective is just not understanding it fully, you know, we’re not able to understand it fully. So hopefully this kind of ward rounds are data dump is a good way to kind of simplifying it a little easier past just the metaphors, which actually did help a lot for myself. Um, like the car? Yeah, it really does. It really does help you understand it a little better. So hopefully you get a lot more people, um, our customers and viewers, you know to say, Yeah, you know what? Let me just take stop it. Yeah, just see what what I know. And I think like another good asset as Kyle’s mentioned is that you know, we do have an entire lesson in the learning center, and then it’s just, like, purely focused on this concept with flywheel and kind of making it applicable. There may or may not be more content coming soon. I don’t know. I can’t I can’t say officially on the record boat there. Maybe it’s quiet. Do you have any other final remarks about the flywheel? You excited to see the fly wheel spin room? I am excited. I mean, I feel good. I feel good. I’m good. I’ll just tell the story. Okay, So I was tasked with making a lesson about what a flywheel is. And as I’m researching it, I’m getting a sense of what a flywheel is. But what I really want is a prop that I can use on camera to say this is it is a flywheel, and I looked and looked and could not find anything on Amazon that would do the job. I couldn’t find anything anywhere that would do the job. And I was talking to one of the folks on our video team for Help spot Academy, and he said, What you need is like a game. Well, well, a fortune. Yeah, and in my mind, I was like, You know, I have this big remembering that ho spot Academy had a game wheel at inbound that we got in trouble for one year because it made so much noise. Yeah, it was loud, and I wonder if it’s still around somewhere. So I talked to Chris Little Chain, whose one of the founding members of Academy the flywheel like this is This is houseful Academy. Laura. This is before I was on the team and and I asked him true stories that still wrecks like I asked in the basement, and I found someone who would take me down to the basement. I don’t have access to that, normally, but we went down there. We found it, we set it up. And then we had this game wheel game show wheel. It was like, I don’t know, five feet wide or something. It’s like it’s a big thing. Yeah, and I took the little wait. So It’s been quietly and it’s like super rickety plastic like really innit? And like wobble. But like, you know, this is going really works it. Once I took our graphic and I got a printed at Staples on a huge silent. I got one of those trifle cardboard things used for science fair projects. And I cut it into a circle when I got some glue and I did this arts and Crafts project on the floor of the D I. Y. And uh and then I had it. And we made this, uh, this lesson that we’ve talked about about five and it’s on screen for, like, maybe five seconds, and it totally belies the week of work I’ve put into this thing, but I’m just like a flywheel goes like this like, please don’t notice that it’s probably but I got it. I got it all together, and I I took a video of it and sent it. Thio are CEO Brian Halligan, who is then working on his his inbound keynote and and had, you know, sort of like spinning graphics on PowerPoint slides. But I just sent him an email in the subject’s on. He was like So I heard you like flywheels and then just drop the video in their opium, spinning it on. And then suddenly I’m in meetings with the CEO and the people who are helping and they’re like, 10. We use it on stage and he did a dry run with it, and every time he spun it like almost fell over and the team in charge of inbound was like, Okay, we like the concept, but like that’s it’s too small for one thing and it’s too fragile it will fall. I was tasked with like, Can you make a better one? And I was like, Whoa, no, this is the best I could do it. I found a company online that makes custom game wheels, and we got this, like, really six or seven foot steel weighed like 150 pounds. And that’s what Halligan had on the spinning it. And like people afterwards, we’re taking selfies with It’s now been chopped off its stand and mounted on the main lobby of the hot spots. Right, so if you come in, you’ll see that my wheel up on the walls right right now, like you front and it’s funny to me. Whoever mounted it decided it needed the booth. Yeah, I haven’t really had. Like if you spin it like the sound ricochets lobby area. It’s very loud, but it’s it’s fine. It’s a great photo op if you’re ever in Cambridge.