DisruptAbility Podcast – Ep.1 – Dermot Crosby

DisruptAbility Podcast – Ep.1 – Dermot Crosby


Hello and welcome to the Disruptability podcast presented by inclusive cork. Today we are talking to Dermot Crosby from the Department of Employment Affairs and social protection who will give us valuable advice on all the support grants available to private sector employers for the recruitment and retention of employees with disabilities. Thanks for listening. So today I would like to warmly welcome Dermot Crosby from the Department of Employment Affairs and social protection. Thank you very much for coming into the podcast to talk to us today. Thanks very much Clare ! Brilliant. And, today we’re going to talk about everything to do with disability and business supports, supports for all the businesses who want to do something about disability, employee disability, retain disability support, disability in the workplace. And you’re going to tell us all about it because you’re the expert on that. Alright? I’ll give you as much information as I have, so yeah, (laughing) Absolutely. How long have you been with the Department of Employment Affairs I’m with the of Employment Affairs since January, 2012 and prior to that I was with FÁS. Before 2012 it was FÁS that had the responsibility for providing um, uh, labour market support and services for job seekers with disabilities. Okay. So I joined FÁS in 2003 and came over to the Department of Employment Affairs, the Social Protection in 2012. My role there, Clare is a disability case officer. So the clients that I deal with every day are people with disabilities, people on disability payments and not every person with a disability is in receipt of a disability payment. Exactly! So it’s often the case if somebody comes in and they’ve got a disability, they’ve got a medical condition and they’re in receipt of a standard job seekers payment. So it’s my job then to show them all the options that are available. Some people are interested in training, upskilling, um, maybe taking up an employment program and then ultimately getting back to work. Okay. Perfect So I go through each one of those options and usually we try and land on the right one that suits the client at the time. Perfect. So there’s lots of support there going through the message to individuals is go in and talk to the case officers because you are there to help them make the right choices in the avenues that they take Absolutely To get back to work There, there’s lots of options out there. And I suppose just in terms of the age group of people that I deal with, uh, some young people are just out of school. Uh, some people may have been working for years, they’ve been made redundant. Other people may have acquired a disability. Okay. Which is the most common, I think 70% of disabilities are acquired between the ages of 18 and 65. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. So they’re already of working age or at work. So retention is a huge area. Okay. I suppose in terms of statistics, there’s one that just comes to mind Clare. Uh, 20% of people are born with a disability. Okay. And then, you know, I think say over 70% of people acquire the disability then in later life. Okay. Right So it’s, it’s a, a mixture of all ages. Really. It is. It’s all ages. It’s all cultures. It’s all religions. It’s all genders. It’s all sexual orientations. Disability does not discriminate. Okay. So that’s the message to get out there. It can happen to anyone during their human life cycle It can land on anybody’s door step. Exactly. Okay. So today we’re talking about business. Alright. And what canwill we start with? There are so many grants. There are so many supports for business. From our talking before, I’ve realized that businesses aren’t always utilizing the grants that are there. Is it because they don’t know about them,or they’re afraid of disability? What’s going on? I think at this stage Clare. Uh, my colleagues and I we’re hoarse from promoting the various grants that we’ve been promoting for many years at this stage. And you know, employers will still tell us, uh, or say to us on when we do meet them that we’ve never heard of these grants before. Um, and as I say, we’re, we’re quite hoarse from promoting them. But just to mention some of the grants, um, one that’s going very, very well for us at the moment is the wage subsidy scheme. Okay. We refer to it as the WSS. It’s a fantastic grant. It was a long slow burn for us, and what I mean by that is, you know, very few people initially started on on wss and today thankfully we have approximately 300 people employed in Cork city and county who are employed through the wss. Basically it’s a subsidy that’s paid to an employer to encourage them to employ a person with a disability. And again, disability can be very, very broad. You know, most people when they hear the term disability they think of a wheelchair user or somebody using white cane and that’s not the case at all. As you know, disability, most disability is hidden, um, to break down the WSS in terms of the subsidy, the subsidy is €5.30 per hour. To qualify the employee must work a minimum of 21 hours per week and the subsidy will cut out at 39 hours per week because 39 hours is considered full time work. Um, if somebody is employed full time, the grant is just under €11,000 per year, €10,748 per year. If an employer employs three people on the scheme, and we have quite a lot of employers who employ more than one person on WSS, they will obviously get three subsidies, but then they will qualify for a 10% bonus. So again, it’s another incentive. Um, the bonus increases, um, as you employ people on the scheme, it goes up to 20%. When you employ seven people on the scheme, 30%, when you get to 16 people and if you can get to 23 people employed on WSS, then the bonus is 50%. So, you know, it is, it is a good incentive. So do you find that the employers who are using the WSS scheme tend to move and employ more like not just one, but end up with three to get onto the different strands? Um, some do. Yeah. Um, I suppose we, we find that it’s mostly small to medium size enterprises that avail of WSS there are one or two larger companies, but it’s mostly the smaller employers. And if, for example, if an employer had maybe two shops or three shops, they may not be able to employ three people on WSS, in the one site, but if they’ve got two or three shops, they could certainly employ one person in each shop. So it’s an easier way to qualify for the 10% bonus. And, um, employ more people on WSS. Number one though the person has to be in receipt of a disability allowance payment. Am I right? No. Uh, I suppose know as well, I suppose number one, the, the criteria to qualify for wss the employee must have a disability. OK. And as, as it happens, most people are in receipt of a disability payment, but you must have a disability. And just to extend this a little bit further, um, your disability must impede your ability to do the job, resulting in a productivity shortfall of 20%. It’s important to highlight that because yeah, there are an awful lot of people out there, uh, with disabilities who could work away fine and it doesn’t impact on their ability to do the job. So for people that are on the WSS, one of the criteria is that they’ve got a productivity shortfall because of their disability. So they might just do things more slowly, et cetera. Yes, yes. Okay. But, um, you know, having said that, you know, we review the WSS every year, we review it to make sure everything is okay, that the employer’s happy, that the employee’s happy that the employee is still doing the job that they were employed to do on day one and that they’re being paid correctly and so on. Just to make sure everything is above board. But we can often find that if somebody starts on WSS, and if they’ve got a mild learning difficulty, for example, if somebody is doing a repetitive task, you know, it might take them a little bit longer to come up to speed, but because, um, the job is repetitive, they can come pretty close to, um, full productivity. You know, it just takes them a little bit longer to come up to speed, so to speak. And if they come up to full productivity, do they lose, does,the employer lose the WSS grant then? In some cases that can happen. In some cases that can happen but. Um, I suppose when we do a review, we have to justify the wss so there has to be productivity shortfall. Not everyone that would go on wss would be there forever. Some people will go on wss maybe to get them get their foot in the door because when they start there is a genuine productivity, shortfall. But you know, the longer they’re in the company, they get more and more used to the duties, and to the tasks, more use to their environment. And when you go back to review the WSS, there’s The may not be a product productivity shortfall and um, you know, the employer’s happy with the employee. And uh, we’ve had, uh, several cases where the employer, um, would just forgo the, the short, the, the subsidy. But that’s a success story. And so it is a success story It brings people in the door. It gives a little bit of support to the employer, to the employee it gives them a chance chance to come up to speed. And then they have a job. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, it’s important to highlight that now there are people on WSS who will always be on it. And we’re quite happy with that and that’s what the WSS is for. But some people go on the WSS and they use it for as long as they need it. And in some cases then they can come off WSS and that’s fine too. Okay, so that’s a really successful story, It is a success story. How do you prove, if you’re not on a disability payment but you have a disability and you want to use the WSS scheme, how else can you prove you have a disability to the case officer? Or Department? Okay,Okay. Well if you’re not on a disability payment, um, we’ve got what we call a confidential medical report, which must be completed by your doctor. And also, um, if there’s any other medical documentation to sort of, I suppose, substansiate, the disability, you know, often kids in school will have education assessments carried out, psychological reports that type of information That all put it together,give it to the case officer Yeah, absolutely. So that was from the point of view of an individual coming in. But how does the business apply for the wss scheme or what, what do they, what hoops are gates do they have to go through? Okay. Um, I might just, I suppose broaden this a little bit. One of the other services that we provide is job coach support. And there’s an agecny that’s available nationwide in Ireland. It’s called employability in different parts of the country they’ve got different names, but essentially it’s mostly this employability throughout the country that are fantastic service and they provide job coach support to people with disabilities. So again, if a client comes into me and if they’re job ready and they’re ready to return to work, I can refer them to a job coach, the job coach, then will meet them every week and help them find a job, be it full time or part time. And one of the tools, one of the employment support tools that the job coach can use is the wss. So many of the wss applications that come in will often come in via the job coach. So the job coach, um, will help clients, um, secure employment. First of all, secure an interview, go through a mock interview situation, prepare them for the interview and when the person secures the job, then the job coach will go through the paperwork for the employer and for the job seeker. Okay. Do employers register with employability to say we have jobs and we want to hire people with disabilities? Is that how employers can let, um, let the world know that they have jobs and they’re specifically want to hire people. Yep absolutely They can do it in two ways. Yeah, they can certainly contact and employability. Yes, absolutely. They can contact employability and they do that all the time. Um, because this is the job coaches, have made some fantastic contacts with employers over the years. So the employer will contact employability, speak to their job coach and say, look, we’ve got two vacancies coming up here over the next few weeks. Do you have anybody on your books? Because employability will have a database of people with disabilities, job seekers with disabilities who are job ready. Okay. So that’s option one. Um, if an employer has a vacancy available, they can also contact jobs. Ireland now jobs Ireland is the Department of Employment Affairs and social protections own website for, uh, promoting the various, um, uh, jobs full tirm part-time. There’s also of course information there as well. Information on see schemes and employment problems as well. All right. Loads of possibilities There is lot’s of possibilities for employers to show that they have jobs. Um, okay, so that’s wss and that’s employability. Yes. Another grant for employers. What else do we have? (in the bag)(laughing) Okay, well I’ll tell you that Clare. I suppose it’s just great to get the opportunity here to promote it. Yeah. Um, the other grant that’s very popular. It’s called the workplace equipment adaptation grant. Yes. And basically this grant, it covers the cost of any nonstandard equipment that an employee, uh, requires to help them do their job. Yeah. I suppose an employee with a disability, I should, I should have mentioned that. And again, just to give you some examples. Um, if an employee with a disability for example, they might be visually impaired, if they would require a large computer monitor that’s seen as nonstandard, the grant will cover the cost of that. The maximum grant is €6, 350 and it’s not just a once off payment. If somebody applies for the grant in 2016 and again in 2018 they require an update to software, whatever the case may be, they can reapply for the grant. One of the largest disability cohorts in education today is dyslexia. And when a student is in the system, if they require some assisted technology, you know, the school or the department of education will take care of the cost of that. But when the person becomes an adult and moves into employment, that responsibility lies with ourselves then, the Department of Employment Affairs and social protection, and this is where we can use the WAG or the workplace equipment adaptation grant. So for somebody with Dyslexia, if they require a piece of software for them, for their computer to help them do the job, they can apply for the workplace equipment adaptation grant. And the grant will cover the cost of the software minus the VAT minus the VAT simply because you can claim it back. Is the WAG only for businesses in the private sector or can public sector employees apply through the wag as well? It’s a good question, Clare. All the grants are applicable to the private sector only. I suppose just to follow that up by saying that, you know, if an employee is in the, in the civil service or public sector, then the onus is on the public sector civil service to provide whatever supports and accommodations that the employee with a disability requires. Okay. I’m going to unpack this one a little bit more because I get phone calls and emails all the time from people who are working. And they want to know are they entitled to a grant or can their company get a grant? Um, hearing aids. Um, I have a chef who is, um, slowly losing their hearing. Yeah. And, and they have been told they need hearing aids, but the person also has a son doing the, leaving cert who, So they know they’re going to have big fees and university next year hopefully,if they get in and, and they have to make a choice. Do I buy hearing aids or for my work to help me at work? And this chef finds that especially dealing with suppliers working on the telephone and when their back is turned in a fridge, they don’t hear what the other employees are saying. So are they with their company the entitled to get the answer is yes. Because um, the key thing there is that you mentioned that the person is a chef, they’re obviously in employment. So they qualify for the workplace equipment adaptation grant, the WAG as we call it for short. And to qualify, I suppose there’s obviously criteria involved. If you apply for some equipment and it’s under 600 and if it’s under €700 , yeah. One quotation is required. If the equipment is between €700 and €1,500 2 quotations are required. And if the equipment that you require is over €1500 then three quotations are required. . And yes, as a chef employed in the private sector, that person would be eligible. (for the WAG) Okay. Because they need it for their job. Then they might use that piece of equipment outside of their job as well though. That’s okay? Yeah. Yeah. But obviously they are applying for it on the basis that they needed in the work environment To retain their job. . Yeah. I mean it’s becoming very stressful for this particular person Another question. Neuro diversities. Sensory issues. Yeah. We’re all being advised now in the private industry to have a sensory box. Because if you’re over the age of 30 you probably don’t have an identification of autism, but if you’re under the age of 30 you probably do. Okay. Because of the way our education system is identifying it, et cetera. So you’re working in a large company and you don’t need the equipment everyday, but you want to have access to noise canceling headphones. Yeah. Or stress balls. Can a company, get a grant, the WAG grant to buy equipment for a sensory room or even a sensory box. Is that something that they can get through this scheme? Or am I going outside the scheme a bit. I think it’s an excellent question. I really do! And it’s the first time that this question has been asked, been asked, but I’m familiar with exactly what you’re talking about. Um, I suppose usually when an application comes in, it comes in for a specific employee and if an employee requires, as you mentioned, there the,the, uh, noise canceling headphones. I can’t see any problem with that at all. Okay. You know, um, I suppose if an employer was buying something in bulk, there could be an issue around that because it’s suppose to be, the applications are for individuals. Um, and there would never be an issue if an application comes in for a specific employee to purchase headphones, stress balls or whatever. Right. But it has to be a specific employee. Yeah. It would be And this is where I suppose this is what inclusive cork and you know, this podcast is all about, is to empower people to, to stand up and say, I have a disability. Can I get the supports? Because the supports are there, but no one can give you the supports unless you actually stand up and ask for them and let your employer know this is what I need and this is how you can get it. Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose Clare, we’re, we’re taking feedback, uh, to our disability policy unit in head office all the time based in Dublin. And you know, we get unusual questions from time to time and we check the guidelines and it’s outside the guidelines. So look, we have to follow guidelines. So the question goes up the line to the disability policy unit and you know, they’re there to make decisions and to adapt and change guidelines as well. A few years ago we had um, a change to one of our grants is called the JIG for short, the job interview, interpreter grant, everything is abbreviated these days. Um, and basically the job interview interpreter grant is there to provide funding for somebody deaf or hard of hearing or somebody with a speech impairment, um, who is attending job interview, um, to bring along an interpreter with them and have their costs covered. And it’s a, it’s a fantastic grant and it’s, um, it’s utilized quite a lot throughout the year. But a few years ago there was some feedback that we got on the ground at a seminar and because of the feedback that we got, uh, again, that went back to head office and they were able to broaden the grant. So somebody who is deaf can avail of the grant to cover the costs of an interpreter at a job interview situation. But when they’secure employment, they can apply for the grant again to bring the interpreter into work to cover the induction period. Okay. You know, so, um, even though the grants are there and they’re, they’re set out in the guidelines, you know, feedback and can always be sent to head office to try and improve a grant and a support. So. Okay. Because as well, technology is changing all the time. So of course grant guidelines are going to change because you know, there might be a new innovation. Absolutely. That’s what disrupting ability is all about, isn’t it? You know. Okay. I’m going to move on that cause you’re talking about hearing impaired and ask about the loop system. Has the loop system ever been put into a private business for hearing impaired? Because it might just be for one individual, it might be for the individual who was working in the company, but also for maybe other clients who are coming in and out of a company. Um, Clare, to the best of my knowledge, I haven’t, I haven’t had any applications in cork for a loop for a loop system. Okay. Now having said that, there could be other applications throughout the country. I’m just not aware of them. Um, we get applications for people who are deaf and hard of hearing all the time. And again, just to give you another example, um, every business has to have a, a firearm system, but your, your deaf person won’t hear the fire alarm going off. So any adaptations that need to be made to your standard fire alarm system can be made through the WAG or the workplace equipment adaptation grant. Okay. If there’s flashing beacons and there’s a very handy device, again, for somebody who is deaf and it’s s a, I call it a vibrate alert, but basically if the f smoke alarm, the fire alarm goes off, they’ve got a little device connected to their belt, the starts vibrating, and it just indicates then, that the fire alarm has gone off. It’s non-standard. So again, the workplace equipment adaptation rental cover, the cost of that. Okay. That’s, that’s brilliant. But it’s, at the moment it’s nonstandard, but in terms of universal design, when architects, when people are visiting or fishing out in office, yeah. Guys think about hearing impaired and deaf people. And because they’re in the building, they’re not gonna hear the alarm. Or even if there’s load equipment, you need to have that visual feedback. You know, just like I need audio because I’m vision impaired. Yeah. And so are you Yes, right and we need audio feedback more often. Yeah. But some people need visual feedback, and that’s what universal design is all about And I suppose with universal design, um, the time to, to introduce all these adaptations to the workplace is at the time of building. Rather than doing it five years later Yeah. And Retro fitting when it’s much more expensive, okay. It’s much more expensive I suppose as just, just in relation to the grants as well, Clare, I think it’s important to say that, you know, we welcome every grant application that comes in. That’s what they’re there for. They’re there to be used. Um, and I suppose we welcome every grant that comes in really, you know, we like to see more and more people applying for the grants. Every time somebody applies for the WSS it means to us that somebody else, is in employment, you know, and that’s the ultimate goal, to try and increase the numbers of people with disabilities in employment In employment. Absolutely. Brilliant. Okay, so we’ll move on? Yeah. What’s our next one? What else are you going to take out of the bag today, Dermot? (laughing) We’re still talking about money (laughing), we’re still talking about money and acronyms. So the DASS the disability awareness support scheme and again it’s, it was a slow burn for us many years ago. Constantly promoting it at all the various, um, seminars, conferences and anywhere, we got an opportunity, but we found that in the past couple of years it’s really taken off ours and there’s more and more applications coming in, far it. It stands for the disability awareness support scheme and there’s funding available through the DASS to, um, provide funding for a disability awareness trainer to come into a workplace, again, private sector and just try and create more awareness around disability among work colleagues and staff and all sorts of trying to eliminate, uh, Um, what’s the word I’m looking for? Stereotypes? Stereotypes And misperceptions about people with disabilities and their capacities to be, to do work and be productive work colleagues. Yeah. Um, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a fantastic grant. There’s up to €20,000 available through the disability awareness support scheme in the first year or 90% of the costs of the training in year two or in subsequent applications up to 80% of the training is, is covered through the DASS Yeah, it’s a, it’s a brilliant one and hopefully it’ll be utilized more. And I’ve gone through the process with employers because I’m one of the trainers and it’s very straightforward. It’s very straight forward. So, and just to let employers know, Eh, you meet your trainer, you design the training that you want. There’s a number of things that have to be done though, right? You have to, as a trainer we have to cover legislation. That’s right. Language. Yes. Etiquette yeah. We have to look at physical and sensory disabilities. Exactly. And mental health. Exactly. You know, so I’m glad you highlighted that. Clare. . Because um, if an employer wants a disability awareness trainer to come in and just talk about autism or talk specifically about mental health, what we ask is for the trainer to broaden it, to cover legislation, to cover etiquette, to cover all disabilities. And not just a, um, zoning or something specifically. Um, I suppose, you know, there’s a lot of misperceptions out there about people with disabilities and employer will often ask, you know, if I employ somebody with a disability, would that increase my public liability insurance? And that’s not the case at all. Yeah. Um, that’s not true. Yeah. Some employers will ask, you know, if an employee, somebody with a disability, will there be a high absenteeism? Again, that’s not true. In fact, the truth is, is the opposite really. Because you’ll find that if you employ somebody with a disability, they’re very loyal. They’re delighted to have the opportunity of employment and, um, absenteeism is, isn’t a factor at all. Yeah. And the other thing I’d say is they’re also a very resilient group of people. Yeah. Because they have had to navigate their lives to date with another layer of difficulty. Yeah. And they have, you know, overcome many barriers in their life. So hiring someone from this talent pool, you know, is an advantage to the company. Absolutely. Definitely. Absolutely. Brilliant. Okay. Um, the other thing I’d say about the DSS, um, is when the training is completed, you return all your receipts to the DEASP, to the department, and you get your payments, you know, and you just have to make sure you have your tax clearance certificates, guys. Okay. (laughing) Everything has to be in order for you to get this grant. I suppose thats one thing with, I suppose any of the government departments, you know, the documentation, the paperwork has to be in order. And everybody has to be tax compliant posts. but, you know, it’s a fairly straight forward in terms of the application form and so on. And uh, once it’s approved, the training takes place, the invoices are, uh, returned and people get paid. Yeah. And that’s it. Yeah. And it’s an awareness is key. I’ve done the training and it’s incredible the questions that you’re asked. And Yeah. Like people have experience of maybe one type of disability, you know, they might have a brother with oh, downs syndrome or a father with macular degeneration, but when you’re talking about it in general and they just see all the different possibilities and the fact that most people acquire their disability during their work life, I suppose a penny drops somewhere, there’s awareness and then they’re more aware with their colleagues. And I call it disability confidence. That’s what I call my training. I’m like, this training will make you disability confident with your colleagues, with your customers, with whatever you’re doing in your life. If you’re training rugby for kids or you know that there’s just, it’s part of life. So let’s get talking about it and straight talking about it. So if companies can offer that to their employees, it will have benefits within your company. But I really believe it will have benefits in the community as well. You know, having more awareness for every element of life. Absolutely. No, that’s true. You know what you touched on there, Clare. You know, I think there’s a lot of people out there. Just from own personal experience who were maybe a little bit conscious of uh, dealing with people with disabilities, you know, how do I deal with them? What do I say to them? I don’t want to offend them. Yeah. And after doing the disability awareness training they are more confident, uh, in dealing with people with disabilities, um, people with disabilities just want to be treated the same as everybody else. They don’t want any special treatments. Um, so you know that that’s one of the benefits of benefits that comes from the disability awareness training. Yeah, absolutely. And we want to be included. Yeah. You know, that’s the big thing. I was in the Kingsley Hotel yesterday doing training and the, we had all the different departments there, food and beverage, accommodation and we were talking about all the different disabilities and what they can do and they had to come up with ideas of just 10% change. What can you do to be more inclusive by 10%. And we came back with brilliant ideas. Fantastic! From the accommodation department, from the front desk department, from food and beverage. So inclusive employers and you know, inclusive leaders in the hotel industry, it’s gonna to be great. Very good. Great. Okay, so have we another one? Have we another grant? There is one other grant Clare, One last one It’s like Christmas (laughing) I’m like santa claus here with all these various grants Yeah ! We’ll be calling you Santa Dermot (laughing) One last one is the employee retention grant and this one is for somebody who acquires a disability. So you could be working for 10,15, 20 years and you acquire a disability as many people do and you might be in a situation where you’re in danger of losing your job. There’s up to €15,000 available through the employee retention grant in two ways. First of all, to put supports and accommodations in place to keep you in your current role. If that’s not possible, the funding can be used to have you retrained to take up another position in the same company, but ultimately to, to keep you at work. Brilliant. So that’s the employee retention grant Okay. That’s key, isn’t it? Because you can acquire a disability at any time as a result of an illness as a result of an accident. Yeah. Okay. Um, maybe an ongoing health issue, you know, say something like diabetes type 2. Yeah. You know, you may become vision impaired with diabetic retinopathy. Okay. So there is, so, it’s such a complex phenomenon isn’t it. Disability. So to know that your employer, they know they have a really good person, but you may not be able to do the job you did before. For example, I know someone with a spinal injury and it’s not just his mobility that is impaired now he’s much more clumsy. He said even the feeling in his hands, he drops things. So say, for example, you’re a plumber and yeah, you get a spinal injury. The company still wants to keep you, but you may need to be retrained to work in something else cause you mightn’t be able to work with the tools that you worked with before because there’s nothing worse than, it’s one. It’s bad enough to get a disability. Right. A hard. Yeah. All right. Let’s, we’ll call it a spade a spade. Yeah. It doesn’t, you know, it makes life a little bit more difficult. Yeah. But to turn around and lose your job as well. Yeah. Absolutely Alright. You know, that really is hard. Yeah. So, um, that is a brilliant grant that I hope people are listening to. Now. Employers are listening to an individual as they’re listening to it. You can retain your job and you know, be retrained. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, as part of that funding, um, you know, there’s an allocation there for an OT, an occupational therapist to come in and do a workplace assessment and to devise a plan or a strategy to keep the person in their current role or have them retrained so that it can be redeployed to another part of the company. . And, uh, we, we don’t get many applications for both. Um, whenever the applications do come in, they’re successful and, it keeps the person at work. Brilliant. Listen, loads of information here today for employers, you’ve given it us all, explained it very well. All very straight forward applications. Yeah. Alright, so Dermot, thank you so much. Thank you very much Clare, it was great to get the opportunity Dermot Crosby from the Department of Employment Affairs and social protection. Everything that you need to know, this man will help you with. Thank you very much Clare Alright, delighted, cheers. It’s been a pleasure Please be advised that this recording does not constitute medical or legal advice.

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