Digital Twins for Digital Cities – The Civil Engineering Podcast Visits Bentley Systems

Digital Twins for Digital Cities – The Civil Engineering Podcast Visits Bentley Systems


Anthony Fasano here from the Engineering
Management Institute and I’m excited to be here at the offices of Bentley
Systems about to pop in and visit with Bob Mankowski. Bob is a Civil Engineer
and he’s also the Vice President of Bentley’s Digital Cities Business Unit
I’m gonna ask Bob some questions about Digital Twins for Digital Cities and how
that’s going to impact Civil Engineering as we know it let’s do it Anthony Fasano here from the Engineering
Management Institute and I’m excited to be here at the offices of Bentley
Systems I’m here sitting down with Bob Mankowski. Bob is the VP of the Digital
Cities Business Unit here at Bentley and we’re gonna get into digital cities but
we’re gonna talk about some other things related to Civil Engineering so Bob
Welcome to the Civil Engineering Podcast thanks Anthony
so Bob we’re definitely going to dive into digital cities digital twins for
digital cities we had a recent episode about smart cities as well just so much
technology going on Friday that’s impacting not just civil engineering of
course but everyone but before we do that your background is in civil
engineering that’s right and so I’d love for you to just kind of tell our viewers
a little bit about your career journey sure yeah I got a bachelor’s in civil
engineering from Drexel University in Philadelphia and from there I went on to
the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power that was my first first job at a
school and well drexels a co-op school so I had a few few opportunities there
as well in a construction company and so when I went out to LA I worked for the
water department and my first role there was as an inspector on cement lining
projects so I was out in the field it was really a great experience and you
know I’ve often recommended to young civil engineers there’s a to get that
field experience in the beginning because it makes a big difference in
terms of understanding how your work as a designer or as an engineer actually
impacts the folks that are responsible for building it operating it you know
you get that first-hand experience of like what it really looks like out there
in the dirt that’s great now how did you get from Drexel to Los Angeles was there
connection yeah there was a well they you know it was like a career fair at
school and there were a lot of companies interviewing students and one of the
engineers out from LA was an alumni of Drexel Oh came back and was recruiting
on campus and so I had my first interview on campus and then they
invited me out for a second interview Wow and yeah it was really exciting as a
young guy from the East Coast sure to move to LA and a few of my friends
actually one of my friends was there with me in LA and then a
couple others worked for Caltrans so there were quite a few of us that went
out to LA that’s awesome I mean I would imagine for a civil engineer especially
young you know starting your career you know Los Angeles Department of Water and
Power must have been a very interesting place to work
absolutely it certainly was it’s one of the most complex in fact it might be the
largest and most complex municipal water system in the United States so yeah it
was a really great place for someone with a hydraulics and hydrology focus
school to you know be selected to work there was was fantastic and I worked
like I said in the field for a few years and then moved into the office and was
responsible for a small team of of draftsman who we were basically creating
main line replacement plans okay so upgrading the infrastructure
which of course we can talk about in the context of digital cities sure just the
aging infrastructure in the United States and Los Angeles was no exception
there so we were designing replacements and and that’s where I’ve got my first
like taste of really programming so this is sort of how I got into the software
industry I was there and I was helping like I said we were sort of drafting all
these mainline replacements and I started to write some auto Lisp code and
an auto cad to automate some of the repetitive tasks that the draftsman had
to do oh and so just really making it so it’s a bit more efficient for them to to
do the work that we had to do and I really got I mean I had always enjoyed
programming as a kid right I’ve gotten like you know in high school I had a
programming class and at at Drexel there was one program in class you know that
was required but I sort of had the bug yeah that’s interesting so that’s how
you kind of got into the realm of software it is I guess how you really
saw the power of you know you could help by writing this code to make things
easier and then I started doing stuff you know as a hobby I’m kind of a geek
and so I’d go home and I’d start writing code on my own you know to do hydraulic
analysis I wrote little like you know Manning’s equation calculators and Hazen
Williams stuff you know and and I actually created a like a hard
across you know network analysis program on my Mac at home and just for fun that
was like what I did that was like my hobby was programming and and then when
LA was you know I’m from the East Coast and so when I left the department only
after like four years but during that time I did qualify for and and get my
professional engineering license just great and yep so I’ve kept I’ve
maintained that over the years but but when I was leaving LA a colleague of
mine there said hey you’re you know you’re from New York right I said yeah
and he’s like Connecticut’s not that far from New York is it that’s it no he said
well there’s this company called hey stead methods in Connecticut that does
software for urban water system analysis basically hydraulics and hydrology I
thought that sounds like perfect job right you know right and so I came back
East and applied there I wanted to be a programmer and they said no they’re like
no you’re not you’re not a good programmer but since they saw I guess
they saw a bit of a passion there and they said well but you can join us join
us as basically an engineer engineering supports I used to help people that were
using the hasted products okay you know get the most out of them I would do you
know it was a smaller company it was like 35 people and I joined so you know
a little bit of everything but then really worked hard to try to learn how
to be a better programmer and and like sort of earned my way into the
programming team and I did and was sort of product manager slash programmer and
then worked my way into more of a full time programming gig at hasted and
ultimately hastin was acquired by Bentley yeah in 2004 so I worked there
for nine years and became the CTO the chief technology officer at the end
there and then when Bentley acquired us I make the joke that Bentley already had
a CTO Keith Bentley the founder so I guess that job was out and then I
started working at Bentley and in our geospatial group and over the years you
know got more responsibility different product lines civil
engineering I was responsible for our road design and rail design products for
a little while and yeah so that’s kind of how I got here it’s it yeah I never
would have thought Anthony when I was you know at Drexel that someday I’d be
you know working in a software company it wasn’t sort of on the horizon you
know but that’s how things happen sometimes yeah I mean I can tell you
well first of all I remember and I had mentioned this to Bob earlier that I
really remember the hasted methods programs the storm cab the culvert
master a lot of stormwater when I was practicing as a similar engineer and
they were I just remember the programs it’s really helpful when you’re dealing
with you know hydrology all kinds of different inputs and different factors
that happens right so the hets interesting it was when you know
preparing for this it was exciting for me to be able to catch up with you on
that but also you know from doing all these episodes of the podcast I found
that you know civil engineers do do very different and interesting things in
their career you know you’re not necessarily limited to always doing
design work on civil projects although that’s in itself is an amazing job right
but there are these other opportunities which is what I was excited to come and
talk to Bob about because I feel like as a civil engineer kind of by nature
you’re always interested in like the built environment and you know improving
in and we get to do that on a regular basis and I can imagine that for you and
your position you know you have some you know potentially really a lot of
influence in terms of helping civil engineering projects become more
efficient which you know we’re gonna get into talked a little bit about the
digital twins for digital cities but I would just think as a civil engineer
it’s got to be a great feeling to maybe be able to work on some of this
technology that can impact it is absolutely and as a young civil engineer
when I when I joined hasted methods you know I was just really interested in the
technology itself like I just loved mastering programming and making the
computer do stuff you know and getting the great results out of it but I think
as I got older I started to really appreciate how that impacted the broader
community and at hasted it was a global company we sold our software all over
the world and then Bentley of course is as well and it’s been really gratifying
for me to see how like the work that we’ve done
has helped you know folks in India have a more reliable and continuous water
supply or rebuild after the tsunami or you know there’s just so many of these
places in Brazil we have a great example of you know providing sewage to it to a
population that didn’t have sewage collection before and you know there was
all sorts of environmental problems with that the lagoon was completely polluted
and they used our software to plan and then execute a storm water I’m sorry
sanitary sewage collection system huh and it has like real impact those
people’s daily lives and it was like like I said as I got older I began to
appreciate that more when I was a kid it was more like I was just having fun but
but anyway it’s great it’s great so all right so let’s let’s talk about digital
twins for digital cities you know some of our listeners I’m sure aren’t
familiar with the term not familiar with it at all so maybe you could just start
off with the basics sure yeah so a digital twin and this isn’t specific to
the infrastructure industry or cities or anything but a digital twin is
essentially a virtual replica of a system or a process or a product and in
our case it would be a digital twin of like an infrastructure system or or a
lot of infrastructure systems together like in the case of a city so it’s a
virtual replica but it’s not just sort of the geometric or physical replica of
that in a digital world it also includes engineering technology which allows us
to model the behavior and and the performance of the infrastructure
systems and then use those for predicting you know what what the
performance might be under different circumstances right so you can do sort
of these sort of scenario brands because you have this virtual replica of it but
you it mimics the behavior of the real system and then a digital twin is often
you know it’s built up from a variety of different sources of data and you then
connect it also with IOT typically right so you have some sort of sensors in a
water system it would be a SCADA system okay and that way you can
get the real-time and historical performance of the system into the
digital replica and use that as sort of the boundary conditions or starting
conditions of your simulations for example right so does that make sense it
makes sense what it sounds like we can just immediately see you know tons of
benefits for that I guess one of my questions would be in terms of
establishing the digital twin for a city what is in Vegas and what’s involved in
it is like you said getting information from different sources you have the data
and is it something that ultimately is done through a program of some sort it’s
on the computer yeah yeah so typically one of the ways that you would start for
a digital city and a digital twin of a city is with what we call reality
modeling the idea is that your virtual replica has to reflect the actual
reality the physical reality otherwise it’s not going to be very helpful right
so one of the things that can be done and Bentley has some great technology
for this is transforming photos into 3d models and so it’s it’s you know there’s
a photogrametry has been around for a long time
this is automated photogrammetry so just by taking photos from a fixed-wing
aircraft you know an airplane or a helicopter and now of course with drones
you can get lots of images close up to buildings and so forth you could also
take ground photos if you want incorporate all this including lidar I’m
sure many of your listeners are familiar with lidar technology and basically
bring all these images and lidar together and automatically process that
into a very accurate precise and visually like appealing replica of the
city and we have many examples of this being done around the world and that’s
one of the ways to start so that 3d model of the city becomes sort of the
integration point of this other data might be GIS data right it might be BIM
data you know Building Information models right obviously civil data right
from Road design or land development or whatever you want to bring that stuff in
connecting in the sensor data from IOT sensors and having this 3d model is a
way of indexing all that information and accessing it in a very intuitive and
immersive environment and we deliver these things so there’s basically it
typically lives on a server or in the cloud and then you would access it
through your browser either on your desktop or on your tablet or on your
phone wow that’s that’s amazing and so for example it would be like a city that
would want to build the twin right so they might have just someone to build it
for them to build it for them and then they can whether it’s their engineering
department or whoever it is somebody can kind of use it as a model to like you
said that’s runner things that’s right one of all one of the classic examples
that we have is urban planning so being able to as an urban planner look at the
changes that are being proposed for the city bring them into this digital twin
environment and bet get a better feel for the impact on those and then a lot
of what cities want to do with their digital twins is use it as a as a
platform for engagement with the citizens and so basically they can
create forms to ask citizens questions about how they feel about a proposed
project or oh you know do they have interesting yeah it’s really interesting
very interactive and the citizens you know from some of the examples we have
it’s it’s a better engagement platform than say the the town hall meeting you
know where or the zoning meeting where typically it’s only the people opposed
to the project come you know have the energy to come and sort of speak at
those things this way you get you know more engagement because it’s easy it’s
right on their phone they can just look at the project they can see what it’s
all about and then they can you know provide their input that’s great now how
far along is this in terms of are there cities that use this now or it is so
it’s play it is in play yeah I think it’s you
know it’s past the point of being a vision of having a digital twin of the
city to being a reality with that said it’s not mainstream it’s not like you’re
gonna find every city has a digital twin but there are some leaders in this area
there are some innovative cities that have embraced the technology and are
looking to to create you know a better quality of life for the people that live
and work and play in their city sure that’s really interesting in fact we had
another episode on our structural engineering channel podcast which was
focused on using drones for bridge inspections yeah the experts that we
interviewed he had done a whole PhD research around it and you know there’s
many benefits to it obviously one of them being you know time but also safety
because you know you got people hanging off of bridges trying to get to these
locations where a drone can get under there and you know video and things of
that nature so you know speaking in terms of civil engineering it seems like
there’s tons of benefits for this in terms of monitoring things like you said
utility systems that’s right and things that nature and I would even think that
just a large construction project right you could create a digital twin of that
project site that’s right and that is happening today there’s um for example
with drones it becomes relatively cheap and quick to capture to do this reality
capture this reality modeling of a construction site on a weekly basis
right and then you have a whole timeline of change across the the project we also
have some technology called syncro which is all about for deconstruction modeling
so hooking up the the structural models the BIM models to the project schedule
and then being able to see the progression of work and identify
potential problems in that progression again through a digital twin of the
construction process right that’s yeah yeah I mean the thing is is with like
these some of these mega civil engineering projects is that the but
you’re talking about like astronomical budgets and things of that nature and
impacts the community that something like this can be a big time saver
absolutely and and a big time saver and then like you mentioned earlier about
safety and security construction projects of course these large
construction projects where there’s a lot of earth movement changes the
drainage on a daily basis and so one of our users is capturing their
construction site on a weekly basis and then running our hydraulic analysis
capabilities to predict you know for a design storm and for a check storm where
is where am I gonna have ponding where am I going to have trouble this week and
they can pre deploy you know pumps or they can take other measures to to you
know facilitate that right to deal with the what could happen if it were to rain
like disaster preparedness yeah actually yeah so that’s redundancy exactly that
touches on a broader topic what we call resilience right resiliency and for
cities it really has two main components to it one is dealing with sort of the
chronic stresses in a city you know the aging infrastructure the the
urbanization like the population growth those sorts of things that are happening
and they’re happening all the time but really stress the infrastructure systems
within a city and then you have these acute shocks they refer to acute shock
such as like a flood event you know a massive storm and flood or earthquake or
tornado or hurricane and so using a digital twin to help plan for that to
assess the risk associated with those types of events plan for mitigation
right of those say you look and say well if we raise the seawall you know half a
meter you know what does that do where does the water go then because the
water’s got to go somewhere so if it’s not where is it gonna go you know and so
so by using a digital twin that can really help them plan for and
mitigate the risks associated with these kinds of stresses and and shocks and
become more resilient that’s great I mean it really is there’s so many
benefits in and so a civil engineers like there’s so many impacts to the
community based on project based on you know the environment and and so it’s
interesting to see that there could be a tool like this that can see can be so
beneficial in different areas so before we we are gonna jump into our hot seat
segment a moment ask Bob a few more questions about his career which has
been kind of an interesting journey but before we do that to two last questions
here Bob what are some things or what is something that really excites you about
civil engineering in terms of where we’re headed in the future yeah so I
don’t think it’ll surprise you to for me to say that like the technology yeah
that can be applied to civil engineering you know with the advent you know so
cloud computing is not new anymore but what is still growing is our access to
data right right and the amount of data that we’re producing and and how sensors
and all these things are becoming smaller cheaper you know and
proliferating around the the infrastructure systems and then there’s
lots of new techniques related to artificial intelligence and machine
learning I’m sure your your listeners have heard about this before but these
things have come together now to a point where we are seeing real benefits from
machine learning in the context of civil engineering say for a water system to
detect anomalies as they’re monitoring their system can they you know
artificial intelligence machine learning techniques can be used to identify
anomalies in that that flow rate or in that pressure and identify when perhaps
there’s a break before it’s actually noticed at the surface right they can
see it in the data and that’s pretty cool and I think there’s a lot of
technology that civil engineers are going to be a you know be able to apply
to the problems that we’re facing and yeah I think that’s for me that’s the
most exciting thing is seeing how civil injury because it
old profession yeah and it’s just and it’s relatively risk-averse for good
reasons right but it’s exciting for me to see how they’ll take technology how
the profession will up you know uptake of this technology and apply it to the
problems we have yeah and I agree with you I mean you know as a civil engineer
you know how can you not be excited about all the potential technologies and
kind of what I was diving into there with Bob before is like you know you’re
kind of like with Bentley you’re kind of seeing all that on such a broad level
which you must be exciting but at the same time you know like you said as well
is that this is an old profession and so I think it’s gonna be interesting to see
how these things are adopted how they’re used how they’re overlaid because
there’s all these different technologies as well and so I think that that is
going to be an interesting aspect of civil engineering going forward last
question here in this segment is what’s something maybe that worries you about
simple engineering I mean I know we’re talking a lot about the positives and
the technology but yeah well you know I guess um I’m not you know I’m not the
worrying type first of all but but no I think that you know we do have a lot of
challenges as a society that civil engineers are going to be faced with
tackling right so we mentioned aging infrastructure before I mean that
problem is you know every year it gets another year older it’s a it’s a it’s a
real challenge and you know so what worries me I guess is a couple of things
the demand for civil engineers is growing and I’m not sure that the
enrollment and the graduation rates of civil engineers are going to be able to
keep up with that demand so I’m a you know one thing that would worry me is if
we ended up with a shortage of qualified and skilled civil engineers because we
do have a lot of challenges and you know from climate change and aging
infrastructure urbanization decarbonization there’s so many things
that civil engineers can have an impact on so we just need to have to make sure
we have enough make sure we have enough make sure we have enough of you know
those young people that want to go into that profession because I’m afraid that
they might not understand how exciting it can be
how how impactful their career can be ya know it’s it’s good to say that because
there are so many things we can work on we just need to make sure that we do
think about the next kind of generation of civil engineers and really like one
thing I’ll add to that which you kind of touched on in the last question is kind
of like one thing that could be a little bit worrisome is though can I just hope
that we can use use the technology you know adopt it and use it the right way
and use the right technologies because I do feel that sometimes for simple
engineers it can be a little overwhelming yeah because there are you
know you have the needs of your client you want to do the best you can on your
project you have budgets you have timelines and then you have technology
right and so I think it’ll just be and I think that the technology can help us
with that all the things we’re talking about that we just talked about with the
climate change and all this stuff it’s just getting being able to integrate it
and implement it effectively and so if that should be interesting great all
right we’re gonna come back in just a moment here with Bob Monkowski at Bentley Systems and we’re gonna put Bob on the Civil Engineering Hot Seat. I hope you
are enjoying this episode of the Civil Engineering Podcast which is produced by
the Engineering Management Institute please be sure to subscribe to our
YouTube channel here for more podcast episodes and for all of our Engineering
Manager 80-20 shorts videos that we publish weekly where we interview
successful engineering managers now it’s time to jump into our Civil Engineering
Hot Seat segment All right we’re back here at Bentley
Systems with Bob Mankowski we talked a lot about digital twins for digital
cities and many other things but now it’s time Bob to focus a little bit more
in your career we’re going to put you on the Civil Engineering Hot Seat you ready
I’m ready all right so first question Bob are there are any routines
that you practice on a regular basis whether it’s a work routine morning
lunchtime something that just helps you in terms of your success for the day
yeah absolutely I I keep it to do list my life has gotten so busy between my
you know personal life and professional life that I find if I don’t keep a
running list of things I need to accomplish and prioritize them that
things fall between you know through the cracks yeah so yeah every every morning
I will take a look at my to-do list and throughout the day I just keep it open
and it’s very simple I just use a spreadsheet and I have a list of things
that I need to do and I just color code them by the importance and sort them by
their priority and yeah check that throughout the day and keep adding to it
throughout the day and just keep that as my list spoken like a true engineer
using a spreadsheet I use a spreadsheet for everything I mean my my wife’s a
civil engineer as well and you know we’re all like we’re doing a home
renovation project and of course first thing we do is we get the spreadsheet
out that’s the way it works all right next question is there a book
that either you would recommend to engineers or a book that you found to be
helpful in any of your personal or professional development efforts could
be one could be multiple but is there sometimes something sticks out yeah it’s
a little bit specific to me though in my career because I got into software
development sure so I’m not sure you know for civil engineers if this is
going to be that helpful but there was a book that really does stick out in my
mind called the dynamics of software development and it was just a very
practical book written by someone who had been through it themselves now and
and had some just really good advice on how to deal with the typical problems
and software development there’s one that I’m reading right now actually
which is called objectives and key results okay ours it’s a management
technique Google was a big adopter of this and
there’s many other examples and but I think it applies it could apply to any
industry sure terms of civil engineering the whole idea is that you know you want
to have a big objective something a bit aspirational but then you want to have
metrics you know you want it and I think this comes back to some of our
discussion about data all right today it’s all about the data and using data
to inform your decisions some people call about talk about data-driven
decisions yeah yeah I don’t like to use that term because I think that we don’t
want the data to there’s a lot of things intangibles or things that might not be
quantifiable that can influence your decision as well sure but it should be
data informed you should have data to inform you know your decisions and
that’s what these OKRs are all about that yes you have key results
there’s got to be a number you got to be able to measure something to see if
you’re on track and achieving your objective and if you’re not if you’re
not achieving those key results then you need to reassess your strategy so it’s
another great book ok Aria I think could be helpful for everyone yeah no I mean
we do at the engineering management Institute we do a lot of management
leadership training for engineering companies and the first thing we try to
do with them is some kind of assessment or baseline because you know you don’t
want to just start giving training to people that don’t necessarily need it in
that specific area right right we’re in a world where really in my opinion you
should try to do things that are as custom as possible because you don’t
want to waste people’s time and we can get the data that’s right relatively
easier so that’s great now just on that first book you mentioned is that a book
that you picked up when you were getting into software to help you it was a long
time ago yeah it was actually probably 20 20 about 20 years ago I would say and
it was we did a lot of reading and and you know I was lucky I had some great
mentors and great managers around me and so there was one guy Darrow Kirkpatrick
who shout out to Darrow he was fantastic and he would read everything and then
you knew you know he would sort of fill through this stuff right so you would
know hey this is a good book to read and ok you know that’s good I asked because
I know a lot of civil engineers from time to time that I that reach out to us
like they’re interested in maybe switching even within the civil range
like a different discipline or something so you know you can always find a
resource when you’re making it addition that could potentially you know
help you and absolutely no there’s a lot of a lot of good information out there
all right next question you’ve had managers throughout your career of
course and whether it was the water to put an order department or you know in
your software life if you think back to your managers and maybe a couple of them
that might stand out that we’re considering you know great managers or
really good managers what were some characteristics or maybe things that
they did that sure kind of made them great yeah so
yeah you know I’ve been lucky in that regard I’ve had some great people around
me and you know the term management somewhat implies like you know like
organization and structure and management and that’s not how all of
them were right I had some like that a great organized administrators
structured you know very good at project management and that kind of stuff and I
learned a lot from that but I was also lucky to be involved with
entrepreneurial types as well right so when I came to work at Haestad methods
John Haestad was the President CEO founder of the company got to work
directly with him it was a small company and the dynamic you know it was just a
dynamic enthusiastic risk-taker you know and it was it was great to be around
that kind of energy and then when I came to Bentley Bentley has grown a lot by
acquisition okay and so a lot of the leaders of the company are also
entrepreneurs who had founded and ran a company that then ultimately got
acquired so I also had a boss here still ECAM Otero’s he was my first boss at
Bentley and again a really dynamic enthusiastic passionate guy and and I
learned a lot from him that’s great I mean it sounds like one of the key
things there was like people they were very energetic and passionate about what
they did and that can certainly rub off on absolutely it rubs off on you it
energizes you it you know there’s a lot of hard work you know I mean and you
know in civil engineering as well as software you know you put in a lot of
long hours like you said earlier you’re trying to do the best for your clients
but you got budgets and there’s all sorts of balances that they’re facing so
having that energy that team and energy you know and having a leader who is
really a leader and like I say neither those guys were sort of managers in the
classic sense right of they were but they were leaders they were excellent
leaders that’s great all right last question here let’s just
say you were to get into an elevator with a civil engineer a young civil
engineer and they’re thinking about their career ahead of them right you
only have about 30 seconds with them okay
what advice what career advice would you give him or her I said this earlier in
the in the program that I would recommend that they absolutely get some
field experience don’t limit yourself to working in an office you know behind the
computer making drawings and designs and calculations and spreadsheets and things
those are important but that field experience is is where the you know the
designs hit the dirt and there are a lot of challenges out there in construction
and in the operations of infrastructure and civil infrastructure and I would say
for a young engineer to get out there and talk to the contractors talk to the
people building the things that you’re designing talk to the people that are
operating the stuff that you’ve designed and really create a rapport with them
and it’ll improve your designs it’ll improve your engineering by having that
context and that experience of what it’s like out there you know getting dirt
under your fingernails to actually build these things that’s great all right Bob
Mankowski Vice President of Digital Cities Business Unit at Bentley Systems
thank you for coming on the Civil Engineer is a pleasure I hope you
enjoyed this episode of the civil Engineering Podcast on YouTube produced
by the Engineering Management Institute we’re always looking for new ways to
help engineers become effective managers and leaders you can view all of our
content on our website at EngineeringManagementInstitute.org and be sure
to subscribe to our YouTube channel here for our weekly videos until next time
please continue to engineer your own success

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