Chapter 4 — North & South

Chapter 4 — North & South


welcome to craft let podcast your episode will begin in just a moment episode 3 33 chapter 4 book talk begins at 12 minutes welcome to craft Lee the podcast for crafters who love books my name is Heather Ordover and I’m podcasting from the shores of the Potomac in Virginia the Old Dominion episode 333 reconnaissance this episode brought to you by little acorn creations handmade accessories for heart and home and knit circus the e-newsletter delivered to your mailbox bringing you three rings of knitting sewing and fun you can find out more at WWNN circus calm and Pennywise consulting technology solutions for your small business links to all of our sponsors pages can be found in the show notes at craft lit calm remember their support for the show is what keeps it free for you so go take a look when hello i am back from the warm part of the country and warm it was actually beautiful in florida not humid mid 60’s sunshiny we did have a little clouds a little cloud cover which was certainly not a bad thing and I have to tell you I kind of wasn’t sure if I was really going to like the theme park thing in Orlando and we spent time at Epcot we spent time at the little harry potter Hogsmeade station area and and then a little bit of time at regular Disney Magic Kingdom stuff and on rides at Universal and I was really impressed I was really impressed with the people who worked there those are hard hard jobs and we actually got to spend some time talking to the sounds bizarre the woman who was playing Lucille Ball on the street at universal studios and so this woman it’s such a weird thing is in character in that her name is Lucy Arnez she is dressed like Lucy from one of the shows she has all of the history knowledge of Lucy and the things that she did and the the things that she pioneered in her business and all of this stuff and yet she was absolutely aware that she was in a modern setting so she was talking about the transformers ride and octopus prime which those of you who have young boys and some girls will get she was very very funny but then there were also people who she recognized because they came to that park often and she made a big deal about going up and thanking them and saying hi these were considerably older people who I was surprised we’re at the park at all in the middle of this kind of melee on a Saturday and one family had an older man who was in a wheelchair who I believe had had some sort of stroke at some point she sat down next to him and just had a lovely conversation and he really didn’t understand that she was not actually Lucille Ball and so for him this was huge he was having an opportunity to have what kind of conversation he could have with her and she was marvelous and I thought okay first off what an amazing kind of person to be able to improvise that kind that level of information and character acting but then on another level what a lovely human being you know she wasn’t obviously she wasn’t shy she wasn’t waiting for people to come up to her she was she was putting herself out there but she was putting herself out there to people who really could benefit from something like that and we saw that over and over again at the at the universal park and then epcot was just way more interesting than I had expected I really didn’t know that we were going to wind up spending that much time there the boys wanted to do this test track thing where you design a car and then test that car on a test track and I was very impressed with the way they did it was very clever everybody had an opportunity to quote unquote design a car there were certain parameters like you could go for economy you could go for materials you could go for power you could go for speed you could go for all of these things and then choose different attributes you wanted your car to have and then you could choose a body type and then they put you in a car with six other people and I’m thinking well why did we go through all of that figuring out what we wanted our car to look like it’s because they programmed your car’s attributes into the system they know you’re there because they did a little fingerprint thingy so they know it’s you and you went in this generic car you went through a bunch of tests and then at the end of each one of these road tests they would show on a panel how your car with its parameters would have done on that test so there was a power test there was an efficiency test there was a speed test which was a lot of fun that was outside and they went 0 to 60 in like five seconds it was great for for little people who want to go fast and big people who like going fast it was a lot of fun and my mom and I were just cackling we were having such a great time and it was really interesting and then afterwards it spits you out instead of spitting you out into a gift shop it spits you out into a larger test center where you could do kind of these thought experiment tests digitally on other kinds of attributes and things that you would want to add to or take away from your car it was fantastic it was really really smart and then of course there’s the whole world market place where you can travel from Mexico to Norway in five minutes so it was it was loads of fun we had a very good time and we stayed warm and we did not get snowed on which it’s the first time in my life that I’ve ever had this much luck we got to the airport as the storm was closing in we took off before the snow started to fall and once we landed we saw that every other flight had gotten canceled because of the storm that we had escaped and then the two days that we were down there the voice had snow days so they didn’t actually miss any school it was it was extraordinary nothing like that has ever happened so I hope that my good luck rubs off on all of us and we all have a fantastic 2014 because we all deserve it God knows many of us have had some pretty lousy years the last couple so so there it is and on the Wow things are interesting in 2014 side of things if all goes well when this episode posts I will be poking around Pennsylvania and southern New Jersey and I will be doing reconnaissance my plan is friday morning to go and visit a number of schools and talk to the school secretaries in these different towns that we’re looking at because it’s my belief is that the school secretaries know everything and i have some fairly tricky children and i want to make sure we get them into the the right schools and then i’m going to go buy real estate offices and find out what the rental market looks like in these places and then i’m going to go plant myself at coffee shops in our coffee houses in different places and eavesdrop and find out what the people who are there during the day are like so I can kind of get a vibe for the place and thank you so much I have gotten some really fantastic and extremely helpful emails from from some listeners and in fact that is very specifically why we are extending our look into a couple of places in southern New Jersey so thank you it you have no idea how helpful it is but also how much I know I can trust you as we have said before craft that people are just better and you proved it time and time again in the thoughtful kind intelligent and caring ways that you communicate with me I so appreciate it and if you have an email that you realize that you do know something about let’s see Eastern far eastern Pennsylvania or the same kind of slice of New Jersey that the southern edge up against the Delaware River Trenton Trenton into princeton area please feel free to email Heather at craft lit calm I would love to hear what you have to say because the really fascinating thing is so far everyone who’s eel emailed me has said pretty much the same thing so we’re triangulating what you’re saying and figuring out like nope that one’s not going to work up this one maybe that’s still on the table okay well let’s take a look to thank you it’s a long way of saying thank you thank you thank you and thank you in my knitting a world I’m not going to do a whole lot of announcements about anything else but in the knitting world I did want to let you know my mom my mom went through the foot the heel of one of the socks that I gave her for Christmas in a month and she was very distraught when she realized it and I said no no this is fixable and then I looked at it again and I thought oh my gosh is this really fixable it is all it is an epic hole it’s at least an inch and a quarter long and an inch wide it’s a lot of stitches that died and i did a tutorial on darning socks a long time ago on the mama own its blog and it was a good tutorial and I did it a way that I felt was was good and justifiable and made a lot of sense since then I’ve had to do a lot of these big holes and I just had a total brainstorm on how to do this and so I will be putting up on the mama own its blog my new way of darning sakhile it is not particularly pretty in the example that I have to show you but it is a tighter knit heel and all of the emphasis is on the place that people will wear through faster if you are a heavy Walker like evidently my mother and I are so i’ll be i’ll be posting that as soon as I can and I’m very happy with it I hope I’m certainly hope it works that’s of course the big test isn’t it so that’s that’s my on the needles i am working on the vogue map of the world afghan for the revel in it games for the winter olympics and i’m very excited about that because i’m actually making progress and I’m I have found that when I do in tarja i can save myself epic amounts of time and frustration if I it forwards and then I knit backwards and if you’ve never knit backwards my question to you is this would it help you to have a video of me working on this bloody map of the world Afghan so that you can see how working forwards and backwards would be useful because i am happy to make that video it’s not particularly instructional it’s just sometimes it really helps to see someone do it so let me know Heather at craft let calm if that would be of help to you because in tarja drives me crazy if I have to turn the piece around I wind up twisting my yearns up in its pathetic in them I’m a mess so all of that good now on to North and South right then chapter 4 in North and South lots has happened already Margaret has been asked to marry mr. Lennox who we liked mostly mine is a little snarky but that’s fine because Margaret seems to be able to handle snark she’s a tough chick and and yet there’s some stuff about Margaret that rankled some of you and I want to read one of those emails to you right now now I one of the reasons why I hadn’t said some of the things that is in this email from Kathleen Kathleen Madame Defarge designer and awesome all-around person was because I didn’t want to hit this hammer too hard before we got today’s today’s chapter chapter 4 Kathleen wrote to me that while we were in Florida and said I just finished listening two chapters 2 and 3 of north and south and already we are getting at the issues of class and economic conflict that are key when Margaret disdains those who are in trade it is not just because they want to make money it’s because of how they made it through trade which no longer referred to mercantilism alone the term was used sneeringly by the aristocracy upper classes landed gentry to refer to industrial endeavors of all types plenty of those sneering aristocrats had very short memories of how they came to get their land through enclosures a couple of centuries before which created their greatest dates and also conveniently disregarded the money they made in lucrative merchant trades like opium sugar and waves so Margaret sounds like a right snob or at the very least a bit disingenuous when she dismisses a huge part of the population even candlestick makers she wasn’t exactly dipping her own candles and butchering her own pigs though she doesn’t have much money she is a lady and the implication is that no one in trade could be a gentleman or lady for that matter I think she is so happy to be in the country that she is kind of clueless about the real privations of people like old Isaac and his hovel which struck me too did that get you I noticed that too Kathleen goes on to say about the aristocrats of course industrialism was a threat to them both to their finances and their privilege but as their finances worsened they were not averse to taking flyers on schemes like railway building Anthony trollops book the way we live now is brilliant on this aspect with Lourdes falling all over themselves to get in bed with a sleazy Mel Mott and his Mexican railway and that all of that is important to keep in mind about Margaret’s mindset as we head into today’s chapter there is a lot going on in and around Margaret and one of the things that has been kind of a curiosity is Margaret is just the daughter of a parish priest and a parish priest out in the country it’s not like he’s the archbishop of canterbury or anything that’s what I’m saying and yet she holds herself in in such a way as to be above people but she also she also reveals some things about marriage and her conception of herself as marriage’ Belen this chapter that helps us understand her reaction to to lenox but she’s an interesting conundrum because she doesn’t have money her mother had money she as far as her father goes doesn’t have money but she was raised in London with a cousin who did have many so by transitive property of haughtiness she’s going to be pretty high up on the haughty scale that would be haughty a che ught why and not h OT t IE uh although she could be a hottie for all we know her descriptions of herself they’re kind of curious aren’t they she’s pretty but not that pretty she’s different looking she’s not quite she’s not average you’re not not your average all she knew I think is the point that Gaskell’s trying to make but we are also going to see something really curious that has frustrated scholars for an awfully long time that has to do with her father and that is all I am going to tell you before we hear the chapter because we have a lot to talk about afterwards so if you’re ready to listen with me here we go with chapter 4 of north and south chapter 4 doubts and difficulties cast me upon some naked shore where I’m a track only the print of some sad rack if thou be there though the seas roar I shall know gentler calm implore Hemington he was gone the house was shut up for the evening no more deep blue skies or crimson and amber tints Margaret went up to dress for the early tea finding Dixon in a pretty temper from the interruption which a visitor had naturally occasioned on a busy day she showed it by brushing away viciously at Margaret’s hair under pretence of being in a great hurry to go to mrs. Hale yet after all Margaret had to wait a long time in the drawing room before her mother came down she SAT by herself at the fire with unlighted candles on the table behind her thinking over the day a happy walk happy sketching cheerful pleasant dinner and the uncomfortable miserable walk in the garden how different men were two women here was she disturbed and unhappy because her instinct had made anything but a refusal impossible while he not many minutes after he had met with the rejection of what ought to have been the deepest holiest proposal of his life could speak as if briefs success and all its superficial consequences of a good house clever and agreeable society with the soul about objects of his desires oh dear how she could have loved him if he had but been different with the difference which she felt on reflection to be one that went low deep down then she took it into her head that after all his lightness might be but assumed to cover a bitterness of disappointment which would have been stamped on her own heart if she had loved and been rejected her mother came into the room before this world of thoughts was adjusted into anything like order Margaret had to shake off the recollections of what had been done and said through the day and turn a sympathizing listener to the account of how Dixon had complained that the ironing blanket had been burnt again and how Susan Lightfoot had been seen with artificial flowers in her bonnet thereby giving evidence of a vain and gay character mr. Hale sipped his tea in abstracted silence Margaret had the responses all to herself she wondered how her father and mother could be so forgetful so regardless of their companion through the day as never to mention his name she forgot that he had not made them an offer after tea mr. Hale got up and stood with his elbow on the chimney-piece leaning his head on his hand musing over something and from time to time sighing deeply mrs. Hale went out to consult with Dixon about some winter clothing for the poor Margaret was preparing her mother’s worsted work and rather shrinking from the thought of the long evening and wishing bed time will come that she might go over the events of the day again Margaret said mr. Hale at last in a sort of sudden desperate way that made her start is that tapestry thing of immediate consequence I mean can you leave it and come into my study I want to speak to you about something very serious to us all very serious to us all mr. Lennox had never had the opportunity of having any private conversation with her father after her refusal or else that would indeed be a very serious affair in the first place Margaret felt guilty and ashamed of having grown so much into a woman as to be thought of in marriage and secondly she did not know if her father might not be displeased that she had taken upon herself to decline mr. Lennox’s proposal but she soon felt it was not about anything which having only lately and suddenly occurred could have given rise to any complicated thoughts that her father wished to speak to her he made her take a chair by him he stirred the fire snuffed the candles and side once or twice before he could make up his mind to say and it came out with the jerk after all Margaret I going to leave helston leave helston papa but why mr. Hale did not answer for a minute or two he played with some papers on the table and a nervous and Confused manner opening his lips to speak several times but closing them again without having the courage to utter a word Margaret could not bear the sight of the suspense which was even more distressing to her father than to herself but why dear Papa do tell me he looked up at her suddenly and then said with a slow and enforced calmness because I must no longer be a minister in the Church of England Margaret had imagined nothing less than that some of the preferment switch her mother so much desired had befallen her father at last something that would force him to leave beautiful beloved Hillston and perhaps compel him to go and live in some of the stately and silent closes which Margaret had seen from time to time and cathedral towns they were grand and imposing places but if to go there it was necessary to leave helston as a home forever that would have been a sad long lingering pain but nothing to the shock she received from mr. Hales last speech what could he mean it was all the worse for being so mysterious the aspect of piteous distress on his face almost as imploring a merciful and kind judgment from his child gave her a sudden sickening could he have become implicated in anything Frederick had done Frederick was an outlaw had her father out of a natural love for his son connived at any Oh what is it do speak Papa tell me all why can you no longer be a clergyman surely if the bishop were told all we know about Frederick in the hard unjust it is nothing about Frederick the bishop would have nothing to do with that it is all myself Margaret I will tell you about it I will answer any questions this once but after tonight let us never speak of it again I can meet the consequences of my painful miserable doubts but it is an effort beyond me to speak of what has caused me so much suffering doubts Papa doubts as to religion asked Margaret more shocked than ever no not doubts as to religion not the slightest injury to that he paused Margaret side as if standing on the verge of some new horror he began again speaking rapidly as if to get over a set task you could not understand it all if I told you my anxiety for years past to know whether I had any right to hold my living I efforts to quench my smoldering doubts by the authority of the church Oh Margaret how i loved the Holy Church from which I am to be shut out he could not go on for a moment or two Margaret could not tell what to say it seemed to her as terribly mysterious as if her father were about to turn Muhammad in’ i have been reading today of the two thousand who were ejected from their churches continued mr. Hale smiling faintly trying to steal some of their bravery but it is of no use no use I cannot help feeling it acutely but Papa have you well considered oh it seems so terrible so shocking said Margaret suddenly bursting into tears the one stayed foundation of her home of her idea of her beloved father seemed reeling and rocking what could she what was to be done the sight of her distress made mr. Hale nerve himself in order to try and comfort her he swallowed down the dry choking sobs which had been heaving up from his heart hid there too and going to his bookcase he took down a volume which he had often been reading lately and from which he thought he had derived strength to enter upon the course in which he was now embarked listen dear Margaret said he putting one arm round her waist she took his hand in hers and grasped it tight but she could not lift up her head nor indeed could she attend to what he read so great was her internal agitation this is the soliloquy of one who was once a clergyman in a country parish like me it was written by a mr. Oldfield Minister of causing Tanana Derbyshire a hundred and sixty years ago or more his trials are over he fought the good fight these last two sentences he spoke low as if to himself then he read aloud when thou canst no longer continue in thy work with our dishonor to God discredit to religion foregoing thy integrity wounding conscience spoiling thy peace and hazarding the loss of the I salvation in a word when the conditions upon which thou must continue if thou wilt continue in thy employments are sinful and unwarranted by the Word of God thou mayest yay thou must believe that God will turn thy very silent suspension deprivation and laying aside to his glory and the advancement of the Gospels interest when God will not use the in one kind yet he will in another her soul that desires to serve and honor him shall never want opportunity to do it nor must thou so limit the Holy One of Israel as to think he hath but one way in which he can glorify himself by thee he can do it by thy silence as well as by by preaching thy laying aside as well as thy continuance in thy work it is not pretense of doing God the greatest service or performing the weightiest duty that will excuse the least sin though thats incapacitated or gave us the opportunity for doing that duty thou wilt have little thanks of my soul if when thou are charged with corrupting God’s worship falsifying thy vows thou pretend estanislao as he read this and glanced at much more which he did not read he gained resolution for himself and felt as if he too could be brave and firm and doing what he believed to be right but as he ceased he heard Margaret slow convulsive sob and his courage sank down under the keen sense of suffering Margaret dear said he drawing her closer think of the early martyrs think of the thousands who have suffered but father said she suddenly lifting up her flushed tier wet face the early martyr suffered for the truth while you oh dear dear Papa I suffer for conscience sake my child said he with the dignity that was only tremulous from the acute sensitiveness of his character I must do what my conscience bids I have borne long with self-reproach that would have roused any mind less torpid and cowardly than mine he shook his head as he went on your poor mother’s fond wish gratified at last in the mocking way in which over fond wishes are too often fulfilled Sodom apples as they are has brought on this crisis for which I ought to be and I hope I am thankful it is two months since the bishop offered me another living if I had accepted it I should have had to make a fresh declaration of conformity to the liturgy at my institution Margaret I tried to do it I tried to content myself with simply refusing the additional preferment and stopping quietly here strangling my conscience now as I had strained it before God forgive me he rose and walked up and down the room speaking low words of self-reproach and humiliation of which margaret was thankful to hear but a few at last he said Margaret I returned to the old sad burden we must leave helston yes I see but when I have written to the bishop I dare say I have told you so but I forget things just now said mr. Hale collapsing into his depressed manner as soon as he came to talk of hard matter of fact details informing him of my intention to resign this vicarage he has been most kind he has used arguments in expostulations all in vain in vain they are but what I have tried upon myself without avail I shall have to take my deed of resignation and wait upon the bishop myself to bid him farewell that will be a trial but worse far worse will be the parting from my dear people there is accurate appointed to read prayers a mr. brown he will come to stay with us tomorrow next Sunday I preach my farewell sermon was it to be so sudden then thought Margaret and yet perhaps it was just as well lingering would only add stings to the pain it was better to be stunned into numbness by hearing of all these arrangements which seemed to be nearly completed before she had been told what does mamase asked she with a deep sigh to her surprise her father began to walk about again before he answered at length he stopped and replied Margaret I am a poor coward after all I cannot bear to give pain I know so well your mother’s married life has not been all she hoped all she had a right to expect and this will be such a blow to her that I have never had the heart the power to tell her she must be told though now said he looking wistfully at his daughter Margaret was almost overpowered with the idea that her mother knew nothing of it all and yet the affair was so far advanced is indeed she must said Margaret perhaps after all she may not oh yes she will she must be shocked as the force of the blow returned upon herself in trying to realize how another would take it where are we to go said she at last struck with a fresh wonder as to their future plans if plans indeed her father had to Milton northern he answered with a dull indifference for he had perceived that although his daughter’s love had made her cling to him and for a moment strive to soothe him with her love it the keenness of the pain was as fresh as ever in her mind Milton northern the manufacturing town and dark sure yes said he in the same despondent in different way why their Papa asked she because there I can earn bread for my family because I know no one there and no one knows helston or can ever talk to me about it bread for your family I thought you and Mama had and then she stopped checking her natural interest regarding their future life as she saw the gathering gloom on her father’s brow but he with his quick intuitive sympathy read in her face as in a mirror the reflections of his own moody depression and turned it off with an effort you shall be told all Margaret only helped me to tell your mother i think i could do anything but that the idea of her distress turns me sick with dread if i tell you all perhaps you could break it to her tomorrow i am going out for the day to bid farmer Dobson and the poor people on Bracy common goodbye would you dislike breaking it to her very much Margaret Margaret did dislike it did shrink from it more than from anything she had ever had to do in her life before she could not speak all at once her father said you dislike it very much don’t you Margaret then she conquered herself and said with a bright strong look on her face it is a painful thing but it must be done and I will do it as well as ever I can you must have many painful things to do mr. Hale shook his head desponding Lee he pressed her hand in token of gratitude margaret was nearly upset again into a burst of crying to turn her thoughts she said now tell me / power what our plans are you and Mama have some money independent of the income from the living have not you and sure has i knew yes i suppose we have about a hundred and seventy pounds a year of our own 70 of that has always gone to Frederick since he has been abroad I don’t know if you wants it all he continued in a hesitating manner you must have some pay for serving with the spa sharmi Frederick must not suffer said Margaret decidedly in a foreign country so unjustly treated by his own a hundred is left could not you and I and Mama live on a hundred a year in some very cheap very quiet part of England oh I think we could no said mr. Hale that would not answer I must do something I must make myself busy to keep off morbid thoughts besides in a country parish I should be so painfully reminded of Hillston and my duties here I could not bear it Margaret and a hundred a year would go a very little way after the necessary wants of housekeeping are met towards providing your mother with all the comforts she has been accustomed to and ought to have no we must go to Milton that is settled I can always decide better by myself and not influenced by those whom I love said he as a half apology for having arranged so much before he had told anyone of his family of his intentions I cannot stand objections they make me so undecided Margaret resolved to keep silence after all what did it signify where they went compared to the one terrible change mr. Hale continued a few months ago when my misery of doubt became more than I could bear without speaking I wrote to mr. bell you remember mr. Bell Margaret no I never saw him I think but I know who he is Frederick’s Godfather your old tutor at Oxford don’t you mean yes he is a fellow of Plymouth collards there he has a native of Milton northern I believe at any rate he has property there which has very much increased in value since Milton has become such a large manufacturing town well I had reason to suspect to imagine I had better say nothing about it however but I felt sure of sympathy from mr. Bell I don’t know that he gave me much stress he has lived an easy life in his college all his days but he has been as kind as can be and it is owing to him we are going to Milton how said Margaret why he has tenants and houses and mills there so though he dislikes the place to bustling for one of his habits he is obliged to keep up some sort of connection and he tells me that he hears there is a good opening for a private tutor there a private tutor said Margaret looking scornful what in the world do manufacturers want with the classics or literature or the accomplishments of a gentleman Oh said her father some of them really seemed to be fine fellows conscious of their own deficiencies which is more than many a man at Oxford is someone resolutely to learn though they have come to man’s estate some want their children to be better instructed than they themselves have been at any rate there is in opening as I have said for a private tutor mr. Bell has recommended me to a mr. Thornton a tenant of his and a very intelligent man as far as I can judge from his letters and in Milton Margaret I shall find a busy life if not a happy one and people and scene so different that I shall never be reminded of helston there was the secret motive as Margaret knew from her own feelings it would be different discordant as it was with almost a detestation for all she had ever heard of the north of England the manufacturers the people the wild and bleak country there was this one recommendation it would be different from Helston and could never remind them of that beloved place when do we go ask Margaret after a short silence I do not know exactly I wanted to talk it over with you you see your mother knows nothing about it yet but I think in a fortnight after my deed of resignation is sent in I shall have no right to remain margaret was almost stunned in a fortnight no no not exactly to a day nothing is fixed said her father with anxious hesitation as he noticed the filmy sorrow that came over her eyes and the sudden change in her complexion but she recovered herself immediately yes papa it had better be fixed soon and decidedly as you say only mamata know nothing about it it is that that is the great perplexity poor Maria replied mr. Hale tenderly poor poor Maria oh if I were not married if I were but myself in the world how easy it would be as it is Margaret I dare not tell her no said Margaret sadly I will do it give me till tomorrow evening to choose my time Oh Papa cried she with sudden passionate and treaty say tell me it is a nightmare a horrid dream not the real waking truth you cannot mean that you are really going to leave the church to give up helston to be forever separate from me from mama led away by some delusions of temptation you do not really mean it mr. Hale sat in rigid stillness while she spoke then he looked her in the face and said in a slow horse measured way I do mean it Margaret you must not deceive yourself into doubting the reality of my words my fixed intention and resolve he looked at her the same steady stony manner for some moments after he had done speaking she too gazed back with pleading eyes before she would believe that it was irrevocable then she arose and went without another word or look towards the door as her fingers were on the handle he called her back he was standing by the fireplace shrunk and stooping but as she came near he drew himself up to his full height and placing his hands on her head he said solemnly the blessing of God be upon thee my child and may he restore you to his church responded she out of the fullness of her heart the next moment she feared lest this answer to his blessing might be irreverent wrong might hurt him is coming from his daughter and she threw her arms around his neck he held her to him for a minute or two she heard him murmured to himself the martyrs and confessors had even more pain to bear I will not shrink they were startled by hearing mrs. Hale inquiring for her daughter they started asunder in the full consciousness of all that was before them mr. Hale hurriedly said go Margaret go I shall be out all tomorrow before night you will have told your mother yes she replied and she returned to the drawing room in a stunned and dizzy state so there you have it this particular piece of north and south has confounded scholars some scholars other scholars I found seem to be able to find some way to explain gaskill doing this with mr. Hale interestingly enough Charlotte brontë who’s a friend of Gaskell’s and Charles Dickens both thought in reading the the first few chapters that mr. Hales decision was going to play very heavily in the course of this book now Charlotte brontë’s response to this as the daughter of an Anglican minister even even though he held some dissenting believes he was still part of the CV her response was kind of too grown so please don’t go there Dickens response was to say you told me you weren’t going to do that so cut it out because they’d had a lot of discussions about the book before he agreed to publish it now it will probably take me until we’re done with the book to actually make sense of all of this for you so you’re going to hear bits and pieces kind of trickling through there will be you know chapter 37 and I’ll say oh and another thing I just learned about mr. Hale and why he did that because it’s a really complicated problem and it covers as far as I’ve been able to understand so far it covers all of these things number one it covers the fact that in the late 1500s the thirty-nine articles were set down as I believe part of the common book of Prayer in the Anglican Church and among these articles are things that I guess in the the ninth and the 36th I think of these these articles there are things that specifically deal with the the creation the continuation of a parliamentary religion that is a state religion one that people are beholding to one that people have to pay taxes to and and hail specifically mentions the parliamentary religion thing now some people have I think rather cynically said this was just Gaskell’s machination to try and move the Hale family to the north because she had to create create this dichotomy between the south and the north even though she had wanted to name the book Margaret Haile and not north and south even even knowing that they’re there still there’s still a large body of critics literary criticism critics not like wow that stunk but literary criticism types of critics people who know what they’re talking about who think that this was a fairly contrived gimmick to move them to the north I personally think it’s more interesting than that for a couple of reasons one Elizabeth Gaskell’s mother died either right after she was born during during her birth right after she was born or within the first two years I honestly can’t remember because I’ve been reading a lot this week about the religion thing gaskill lived with her father for a little bit longer than he remarried and she wound up going to live with an aunt up in the country actually she was in I think she was in stratford-upon-avon which is kind of cool uh I will confirm that later don’t take that as gospel yet oh so her father who she’s she’s not really estranged from him because there doesn’t seem to be any animosity it’s just he’s got a new family and she’s not part of it and she doesn’t get to see her dad a whole lot he was a Unitarian minister so he was a dissenter he was he was and this is where it gets really complicated for me there in England he is a minister he has a congregation Betty’s Unitarian and that means that he is not agreed to the thirty-nine articles of faith and and the thing that’s really interesting to me as an outsider is it looks like most of the thirty-nine articles anyone who’s Christian could probably agree with but there are a couple that might kind of stick in your craw and there was one particular scholar who I I thought did a really interesting job of parsing the language and showing how someone who is particularly thoughtful and also particularly aware of language and the power of words and and and someone who believes that words mean something because as you know in the beginning there was the word that kind of thing uh let’s see it’s the 36th article says something about that he allow a–the the book of articles and that he acknowledges the same to be agreeable to the Word of God and the scholar points out that we can allow a lot of things that we don’t necessarily think are brilliant or correct or whatever I can allow that there are Holocaust deniers out there but I’m not necessarily going to acknowledge their argument as legitimate that’s two completely different things and it for someone like Hale who clearly takes his job very seriously and thinks great deal about it and cares a great deal about it this could really become a problem there was another another one that said whomsoever shall hereafter affirm that any of the nine and thirty articles etc are in any part superstitious or erroneous or such as he may not with a good conscience subscribe unto let him be excommunicated that’s the line that got a lot of those he he referred to them as martyrs the people who were were kicked out of the the church back a couple hundred years before this that’s that’s where they had their sticking point there were things that they just could no longer in good conscience and good faith agree to and that’s a problem and the thing that I think is important about all of this when it comes down to it isn’t that it doesn’t matter because I think it does matter a great deal I think the important thing is that it shows us really rather early on that gaskill is trying to play fair Henry Lennox is a lawyer he can be snarky sure but he’s also a real person and he likes to go sketching and he actually has kind of a talent for it and he he is a kind interesting interested man he’s not an NG be he’s not a nice guy but he’s a good guy but Margaret isn’t there yet and as she said in this chapter XI she was kind of embarrassed at someone even thinking about her as a as a possible wife she’s just not there and and Haley it would be it would be too easy it would be too facile to just write him off as some bumbling clergyman who can’t quite get his act together and sign on to something that’s not true and he’s not that guy he’s he’s not rowan atkinson in three weddings in funeral he’s he’s not marriage he’s he’s a real guy with real doubts and i think i think what’s important for us early on in the book is to become very clear in our in our minds and in our hearts that elizabeth gaskell is going to do her best to play fair with everyone and that means if she meets an atheist she is going to treat the atheist respect if she met a Jew in this book she would treat the Jew with respect and yes she did have that throwaway line that this was as shocking as if her father had become a Mohammedan now in today’s world that is kind of a fronting because that’s a complete misnomer we talked about this back when we did Frankenstein Muslims do not treat Muhammad as God he’s a he’s a prophet and so to call the Mohammedans is really just wrong and and yet I felt like you could insert anything into that line it would be as shocking as if her father had become a Buddhist it would be as shocking as if her father had become a Jew it was a you know that there’s you could insert anything and it would all have been just as shocking because again we’re talking about a state religion any deviation from that track is going to be shocking and yet gaskill treats Hale with respect she treats Margaret with respect she treats Lennox with respect we haven’t seen a whole lot of mrs. Hale yet so we don’t know how that’s going to go but we’ve also learned something again thinking about this as Margaret Hales book instead of north and south the dichotomy we’ve learned something very interesting about Margaret she may be biased in her own mind about people and class and things like that but when push when push comes to shove this woman is tough her father can’t bear to tell her mother that they’re going to move in 20 days so Margaret has to do it doesn’t want to but willingly accepts that burden you’re going to see a lot more of this from this young woman and I’ve read I read a lot of a kind of college ish essays or they at least they read as college essays and even some stuff from scholars who are like women during the Victorian time were never like this this would unthinkable no one could possibly then like this remind so she’s really promoting a radical feminist view of what and I think that’s a bunch of bunk right because women who didn’t have access to money certainly had to be tough and even women who did have access to money they may have had to be sneakier about the way that they did things around some men not all men but some men but you can’t tell me that women were weak and weak and weak and weak in a week until suddenly in 1967 they became empowered I just I don’t buy it for a second gaskill was a strong woman she was a mother she was a wife and she probably would have listed them in that order she loved her daughters and her son loved her husband who was by the way a Unitarian minister but she went and traveled on her owner with with a friend she she nothing stopped her so she’s very much a picture of a perfect Victorian wife and an author who’s making more money than her husband and travels where she wants to when she wants to and has lots of really interesting friends so I you know you put those two things together and you go okay women in the Victorian era probably more complicated than we thought and perhaps Marian in the woman in white really wasn’t that extraordinary in the grand scheme of things maybe what was extraordinary was that someone had the cojones to write about her like Wilkie Collins aunt Elizabeth Gaskell and as I’m learning about Middlemarch George Eliot so as I continue to read on this incredibly complicated and intricate problem of religious dissension in England during the mid 1800s I will be feeding you what I learned when I learn it if it’s valuable at all to the story that we’re reading but there’s a there’s a lot of stuff going on early on in the book and you know it it’s funny because when i first read the book i felt like the beginning was really kind of sleepy you know jaan ok and then this chapter happened and I thought huh ok well that’s new and pretty much from this point on i was hooked certainly by the time with a get Tim L Milton Milton northern is a stand-in for Manchester I know you’re shocked and dark sure is a stand-in for Lancashire everybody knew that no it wasn’t a surprise but that was how gaskill chose to write it there doesn’t seem to be any real rule about this convention we’ve certainly heard it before engineer it was blank sure or it was just a line of blank line and then sure shi re different writers seem to have done it different ways but there’s no question that this is Manchester which Elizabeth Gaskell lived near I sort of in near ish and and lecture county where Manchester is it’s not a surprise that she named it Milton even though it’s spelled Milton like the poet mi el tio n it is mill mi ll town t 0 WN it is a mill town that’s where they’re moving to Owen and Plymouth college at Oxford is not really a college at Oxford so if you know if you know anything about Oxford you what what that’s why so now that I’ve fed you all this information I really didn’t want to tell you all of this before you listen to the chapter but now that you have all this information you might want to go back and listen to Hale again and and in particular listen to his conversation his side of the conversation with Margaret because he does try to explain his thinking and a Oldfield who he quotes from was a Unitarian scholar had been a minister was one of the people who were excommunicated and and with within the Unitarian world at the time he was quite well known so Gaskell’s unitarian readers would absolutely have known what she was pulling out of her bag of tricks with that one but even people who weren’t Unitarian might have had a fairly clear picture of who he was and he’s quite well respected at least within the Unitarian community from what I understand so it might be worth going back and letting that one roll over you again just to just to get it clear and not because hail or hails dilemma becomes such an important a turning point or or anything for the book because really we do we have to get to Milton but but more because I think it shows us a lot about Gaskell and the the care that she took with building a narrative that stood on a firm basis of reality no matter how COV readers might have taken this act of dissension she was trying to put hail in a in a position where he could explain himself to the satisfaction of everyone and still be basically a likeable character a character that you feel like you could understand you could agree to disagree with because he was a gentleman and and that was a really interesting tightrope that I think gaskill was walking at the time so I’m sure I’ll have more on this for you later as I read more but for now I hope that helps clarify a little bit about what gaskill was up to in in this chapter and of course why for Margaret this would have been a shock Margaret is still very much a Church of England girl and so is her mother and now her father is dissenting and that would be really rather nerve-wracking because it denies everything that she’s lived within for her entire life and that’s up a fairly tricky thing so on that sobering note I will leave you and and I’ll talk to you next week take care I’ll talk to you soon buddy like graph ‘let leave us a review on iTunes like us on Facebook opposed to link to us when you comment on literary blogs you can listen via stitcher radio craft lecom or via our Android our new windows 8 or iPhone app you can also use the Freak rambling to access premium subscriber content crafts let is and has been made possible by the support of its listeners and for that I am truly grateful and remember if your hands are too busy to pick up a book at least you can turn on thank you for listening to craft late’ next week we’ll have another episode of North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell if you can’t wait you can find our previous books at craft lit com or our audio books with benefits at crafting hyphen a hyphen life com / shop thank you

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