Building DIY Ebikes and Batteries Like a Pro: Fast Ebike Podcast #3

– [Eric] We need our own soundtrack but right now we don’t have a sound track (men beatboxing) ♪ Thriller, Ooh ♪ Okay, so are we live? All right, we’re live
on Electric Bike Podcast we’re here with Adam Livingston. Me and Adam met on the Fast
Electric Bike Facebook page. (dog yelps) And I, wow, dog yelp. Never know what’s gonna happen live. – Ruh-roh. – We’re live on Luna Cycle, right? Yeah, okay so anyways, we
met on Fast Electric Bike. I’ve always been, admired his builds. He’s one of the better
builders on the group I’ve always thought and
me and him became friends. He ended up changing the direction of Luna Cycles, which
we’ll tell the story later. He’s really like the guy who inspired me to make the Wolf pack. And, so he said he was coming
down to Southern California, and I said, “Man you should come down” and we’ve been wanting to
talk about the Wolf pack a long time on live video and we decided that you
would be the perfect person to talk about it since you
were really responsible for inspiring me to make it. And so I had Adam, tell us about your, is this
your electric bike right here? – [Adam] That’s one of them. That’s Pub Runner. – [Eric] He made more
impressive bikes than this guys, give him a chance. (Adam laughing) This was kind of, I
know what you’re saying, it doesn’t look that fast but– – That is moonshine in the flask on the down tube, as a redeeming feature. – [Eric] It’s not really in focus, that’s a flask right there, isn’t it? – [Adam] It is. – [Eric] I love it. And where’s your battery
pack if that’s your flask? Don’t tell me you’re one of
those backpack battery guys. – [Adam] It’s in the tank. – [Eric] If you’re one of
those backpack battery guys– – [Adam] It ain’t no backpack. It’s in the Mighty Mini,
in the Schwinn tank. – [Eric] There you go, guys. You see that? The whole trick is hiding the battery. You see that? Because we can build a beautiful bike, but I was getting worried about it Adam. I thought he was gonna say, it’s a backpack. – [Adam] Come on, backpacks
are the way to go. – [Eric] No, it’s like
not for a real builder. Look at this. So that is ingenious. That’s Mighty Mini
hidden in the fuel tank. And as I got to know this guy and saw his skills, I realized, we got a real builder on our hands. Can you show us his later bike, Ash? When I saw this bike, me and him almost became instant friends. He did a Tangent build. Let’s see if we can find that,
yeah it’s a Tangent build. It’s silver colored, right? – [Adam] Bike one, yeah. – I haven’t see it in a while. Look at there. Oh my God. – [Adam] So that was
mock-up of the battery box. – [Eric] Oh my god, now
I remember that bike. Okay, so this really did inspire me. – [Adam] Oh, I love that. – [Eric] ‘Cause when I saw this bike, I realized we can build
our own battery packs. If this guy’s building them in his garage. – [Adam] With one hand at the time. – [Eric] One hand at the time, and that’s a really great
story you guys need to hear. That is one to the most
beautiful Do-It-Yourself bikes that I have ever seen. Yeah, look at that. That’s a Tangent drive. And back up and look at that battery pack. And I remembered that there
was a change in mindsets, from this bike and the bikes
that we ended up building. – [Adam] Really? – [Eric] I think people, this bike really lifted
the bar, in my mind. ’cause I swear, I’ve never seen a Do-It-Yourself bike look that good. – [Adam] That was fun. – [Eric] Was that before
I did our fusion bikes where we did that batteries? This was before that, right? – [Adam] Yeah. – [Eric] Wow. Here, go back baby. – [Adam] So that mock-up. – [Eric] Look at the
on-switch on that thing. Go to where you can see the
entrance of the battery. The aluminum, you know, tell the story. There we go. Zoom on that. – [Adam] So that mock up
was, that was pretty fun. So I initially did some cardboard pieces and fit them into the frame. And I just, this bike
that you’re looking at, I designed it when I was 40 years old and I named it Forty Tude,
kind of attitude and 40. – [Eric] Forty Tude, that is cool man. – [Adam] And it’s titanium
frame and you know, I just kind of went long on that. It’s all Rohloff. – [Eric] Freaking amazing. – [Adam] And I wanted to build
a bitchin’ electric bike. – [Eric] Forty Tude. – [Adam] Forty Tude. – [Eric] I love it. – [Adam] But I wanted to– – [Eric] This was before your injury? – [Adam] No, this was after the injury so. – [Eric] So wait, aren’t
you closer to 50 right now? – Yeah, but I have that as just a regular mountain bike for about 10 years. – So this injury happened a long time ago? – No, I built that bike a long time ago and I just made it into an electric bike when I did the hand. – So this is recent, got it. So let’s go back. So the bike you built or you bought it? – [Adam] Built it. – [Eric] Built the whole bike? – [Adam] Well I didn’t, no,
I worked with a frame builder who built the frame,
so that’s a tie frame. And I did the geometry and everything and he dialed it in and
made it the way I wanted it. I’m not too good with titanium welding. (laughing) – [Eric] Well, you know,
titanium welding’s not that bad. It’s aluminum welding that gets you. – [Adam] Right. – [Eric] Which you’re learning
now with your latest build. Did you about welding? – [Adam] I thought about it. – We’re gonna talk about it later, but he’s doing a belt drive aluminum bike. And belts drives are wicked tough, because he’s gonna have to slice the frame and he’s got a way to put it
back together without welding. And I think it’s awesome. But compared to titanium,
aluminum is really tough. Like titanium is a little
tougher than steel, but it looks really cool when you weld it. – So when you see this battery box, I think there’s a picture that shows it with kind of the battery
in it after I, yeah there. – [Eric] Wow, wow. – [Adam] So what you see,
you see an inner tube that goes around the battery, and– – [Eric] Did you build that battery? – [Adam] No that’s your battery. – [Eric] That’s just a
basic triangle battery. – [Adam] That’s a 17 amp triangle. – [Eric] 25 hour battery. Wow, wow, wow. – [Adam] And so, I designed
that frame around it and then that inner tube
goes around the battery and then when it’s all sealed up you pump up the inner tube. – [Eric] No way! – [Adam] And it isolates
the battery from any shock and totally locks it in. – [Eric] Beautiful, beautiful. It doesn’t change the shape at all. It’s just to keep the battery
from making any noises. – [Adam] Yeah. Any movement it cushions the battery. It keeps it from getting any wear spots. – [Eric] Oh my god. You guys see why this guy’s the pimp? Look at that. Air pump in his battery pack. I have never seen that ever man. – [Adam] So that worked out really well. – Do you know, we saw
that new bike we released? The Fixed bike. – Oh man. – I got a story that I
haven’t told many people, but that’s the first time
we’ve brought in a bicycle from China completely and they’re a really good factory, the guys were working with,
some really good guys. But the first shipment we got we got ’em and we went out and rode them and it’s really quiet, you know? When you hit a bump, you’d
hear a slight rattle. It’s like oh my God. It’s that slight rattle just wrecked it. And I started getting
obsessed with rattles. And even the bikes we build, like the KHS bikes or whatever, you pick them up and you hit the ground, and they rattle too, the chain,
the derailleurs, everything. – [Adam] The derailleurs slaps? – You know when you’re building a bike, even when we did and this one
we didn’t build ourselves, but every little detail counts. You can see how oh wow, this has a rattle. So we decided we had 20 of these things. We took them all apart. How hard is it to take
this thing apart anyway? And at first we tried a trick. We put a screwdriver up on top, ’cause it has a tube within a tube. So it’s double tube, so there’s aluminum tube inside that, and we thought if we just
bashed it with a screwdriver– – Just like wedge it in? – It would keep it from rattling. And we tried it and we tried it two times, we tried it three times, and bam, it worked on our prototype bike. We’re like hell yeah! It’s like the best news all day, we’re not gonna have to
disassemble these bikes. And Kyle goes, “Wait a
minute, let me try it, “let me try something.” And he takes the bike apart and we can’t get the battery out of it. – ‘Cause you’ve wedged it, yeah. – So we go ah, shit. So the next day on Monday
we just start taking all the bikes apart, take the motors off, take the batteries off. It was just a matter of just a little bit of tape around it to keep it from moving around. So going back to your bike, you did a whole freaking inner tube. So are you worried about
damage to the battery pack? You’re not just, ’cause
most people would just put a little foam around it. – It just seemed like a smart way to lock it in, you know? ‘Cause foam degrades. It kinds wears out, you
don’t really get that. And so the tube just
seemed like a creative, it’s a 10 inch tube and– – So you don’t think
if you just pushed foam up against it, that’s
what most guys would do. But you went, you went
the elegant builder, like you’re taking this
thing to car shows. – Part of the reason for building the bike in the first place was mental exercise. I need thinking and thought and I had some goals to work through. – [Eric] He was in serious pain during this bike build you guys. Fighting pain, right? It was your therapy, basically. He got in a terrible accident, which we’ll talk about in a minute, but first I wanna go back to this bike. How did you do those bins, man? They’re so amazing. And the battery box? – [Adam] Yeah, well I
ended up putting a… almost like a two by four, I bolted it to the front of my workbench with like a quarter inch gap and then I could slide the
piece of aluminum into it with my one good hand and I could bend. – [Eric] Wow, you didn’t
even have a bender and you just bent manually? – [Adam] No, I was just bending it slowly. – [Eric] Was it aluminum or titanium? – [Adam] The battery box is aluminum. – [Eric] Nice. – [Adam] So I got it all to the dimensions and then you saw how I
held it together with wood. I use a hot glue gun and
held it all together, and took it to my buddy who
did the aluminum welding ’cause I didn’t mess with it. – [Eric] Wow, so wait, wait, wait. You just have one seam
that you needed to weld? – [Adam] No, those are three pieces. One, two, three. But I hot glued each of the seams, just dabbed them with hot glue and took it to my buddy. – [Eric] So that’s been welded, wow. And did you have to heat
treat it or anything or no? – [Adam] No, no reason to. – [Eric] You can throw one
in your oven if you want and it’s small enough,
do you think about that? Just throw it in your oven. – Well, it’s held on
the water-bottle bosses, on the seat tube and the down tube. So it’s pretty happy. And then I just made the side panels out of carbon fiber, plexi– – [Eric] Wow, wow. I didn’t know the bike was this good man. Carbon fiber, okay, tell me about that. Did you cut that out of something. – That’s carbon fiber cloth and it lays up just like fiberglass. – [Eric] And then you put
the gloss on it later? – You epoxy it and that gives it that– – Ash are you listening to this? That’s what we need to do on our pack. Do we got the pack with new engines? I’m gonna show it to you later. But yeah, we’re trying
to solve this right now. So you just cut it out of fabric. – Carbon fiber, you just
cut it with scissors. – [Eric] And then you gloss it? – And then you epoxy it, right. And I did this over a
1/16th birch plywood. – [Eric] Does it matter
which epoxy you use? – I use two part marina epoxy for boats. – Two parts marina epoxy? That stuff’s really cheap. I think we got gallons of it next door. Excellent man, you’re
giving away so many tricks. – [Eric] That’s all
right, you can have ’em. – I’m not saying to me, to these guys. We gotta do this offline. I’m just kidding. Yeah, but no you guys,
this is a proper build. I would buy this bike in a second. In fact, it’s not for sale, is it? – [Adam] No. – It’s one of the more
beautiful Do-It-yourself. Now look at it. We got a Tangent drive,
52 volts, 25 hour pack and what kind of speeds
would you get with it? – You know, if I play with the gearing, I could get 60 out of it, but I’ve got it down for
mountain bike torque, so it likes to climb straight-up trees. 35 is pretty comfortable with the Rohloff. – [Eric] You know what would
have been sweet on this thing? Belt drive would be pretty
sweet with red Rolo. – I know, well I’m thinking about it. I’m doing it first on the– – And see if it works. – On the Pub Runner and
we’ll see how it goes. – He’s got a great idea
that we’re gonna go through, but yeah. But this bike is freaking, how many hours do you
think you got into this? – Yeah, hours and dollars are big. – But titanium bike, Rohloff hub. Tangent drive. I mean look at this thing. What kind of front suspension is that? – That’s a Rockshox Judy. – Ah, shit! Fuck that man, we’re
gonna get you a real fork. We’re getting you a real fork before you leave for that baby. You’re getting not, put a
Rockshox Judy on that thing man. Oh, that’s ’cause it was your 40s bike. – [Adam] Right, that’s what
they had for a 29 inch. There weren’t a lot of options. – I was just telling Matt lately, they were both here on
the podcast and Mark, and I go, I don’t really
respect Rockshox as a brand because I think of Rockshoxs and Judy. And they laughed. Like oh, you’re really old. They’re go Rockshox
has gotten really good, they really upped their game. I don’t know. – We’ll see. – [Eric] I’m not one of
those big shocks guys. Like nobody I know is doing 20 foot drops or 10 foot drops. – I ride it locked out 90% of the time. – Really? – Yeah. – Wow, why? – I don’t know, I just, I grew up on non-suspension and unless I’m really
hammering downhill rough stuff, I’m comfortable. – You’re a realist. – It makes me a better rider. – I think a lot of people
convince themselves they need full suspension. And when I look at bikes, I love hard tail bikes, because when you solve the major problem on where you put the battery. Like full suspension
bikes are good for people who ride really, really,
crazy technical stuff and are jumping. But I don’t know anybody who can ride like that. You know most of those
guys end up in hospitals. Have you ever been to
downhill mountain biking? – It makes me, I’m too old. I don’t heal as quickly as I used to. – Man, you can’t think
about it at our age. I’m saying when I was younger, we’d go and it really looked like a war zone. People just laid up everywhere. – It’s a mess. – But guys get really good. I’ve seen guys do 10 foot drops right in front of me and I
don’t see that these days. I look at all these electric bike videos and most people do is go
up stairs or down stairs. – Bunny hop a curb. (laughing) – But really, like full
suspension is the most, like everybody thinks
they want full suspension. And by the way guys,
Adam is a real bike dude. He managed a bike shop or two bike shops. – Couple of shops up in Santa Barbara. – Became this great man that he is being a bicycle mechanic. Everybody get you kids
to work at a bike shop, teach you all the right skills. If you want to know if somebody
is a legit bike mechanic and I gave Adam the question, I’m gonna give him the question right now, Adam can you build a wheel? – I can build a wheel and I can overhaul an
internal gear Shimano hub. – Awesome. Building a wheel like are you very good? Could you build one for like,
good enough for a racing team? – These wheels have 15000 miles
on them and they’re laser. – Did you have to rebuild them? After you rode the bike? – No. – Now how did you do that? Do you stress them while
you’re building them? Do you take a pole or something? Tell us your trick. – So I’m just real methodical on tension when I’m building up. And spoke prep, so I feel
like I get good equal tension through the nipple as I’m tightening. – Really? – And then, ding them. And I’ll take them off for
the first couple hundred miles I’ll take them off every ride and stress them and tune ’em up again. – Oh, so you do re-true ’em? – Yeah. – You actually take them completely off? – No, I’ll take them off the bike, I’ll take the wheels off,
throw them up on the stand. – Plus you do re-true it. – Yeah and I’ll tighten them up. – So see us in the business, this is what we gotta face with. We gotta send people– – One and done. – Yeah. And then they ride and
like after 30, 40 days and their wheel’s coming undone. Golden Pie, it’s why we
hate selling hub motors. – Right. – And they’re going oh, they’re selling me this wheel with cheap spokes or something. I go dude, you’re putting
power through that and it’s normal that you
have to replace your spokes. So what we did, is we got a
really good wheel builder now. And he knows the tricks, and he’ll stress each
spoke with a broom pole. – I could see that, totally. – Because we can’t say
come back in two weeks. – Right. – Or go ride this around
the block a few times. And we can’t ride it,
because like you know, that’s why we don’t
like selling hub motors, because it’s a pain in
the ass to you know. – Right and hub motors put a
lot of stress on the wheel. – Absolute and Adam
bought a Golden Pie for me for his daughter actually. Oh, there we go. I almost bought that
whole machine right there. – [Adam] Oh my gosh. – [Eric] Yeah, I came this close. I wanted it at auction, and somebody swooped it up from me. But I wanted a wheel-building
machine so bad. It’s like oh my god, can I
replace that wheel-builder guy? He kind of smells and
I would love to play, I mean, this guy you should see. He drives this big ass Charger. And he’s got attitude and tattoos. – [Adam] He’s an artist. – He is an artist. And I swear, like, there’s
only one out of 10 guys we interview for bike mechanic
that can make it here. For a wheel builder, oh my god. When we went through not
having a wheel builder, you give them the wheel building test, nobody passes that test. – [Adam] Really, yeah? – Oh my god, I mean one
of our employment tests is just, assemble a bicycle out of a box. You’d be ashamed to hear
how many men fail that test. What happens when you have a baby and you have to put the crib together? Are you gonna have your wife do it? And seriously. Or I give them the question, do you know the difference between a flathead and a Phillips? – [Adam] Come on. – I’m not even kidding
man, I mean it’s bad now. But I’m saying, building
a wheel is a real test. ‘Cause we got so many guys when we’re interviewing wheel builders, we say we’re looking. Came in and build a sample wheel and it was just so dog-shit. It would take them like, I
don’t know, 40 minutes to do it. – I love building wheels. It’s so organic. You can really… – Here’s a China wheel build right here. It said, I agree that you know, Kyle will tell us that you can’t even… it’s hard to get a real
wheel builder right now, because most of them are building
in these factory settings. You gotta spend like two or three thousand on a bike to get a bike properly built. I don’t think a machine can do it. What do you think about that? – I think a machine can get you better than a lot of people can,
but not the good ones. – Not as good as the good ones. – Right. – You think you’re better
than this lady, right here? – I don’t know, I bet she’s built a lot
more wheels than I have. – She’s using a machine too. That’s a, there’s two
steps to the machine. This is a machine that puts the spokes in and then they run ’em
through another machine that tightens everything down. – [Adam] Those are the
biggest gloves I’ve ever seen someone wear building wheels. It looks like she could… – Well, this is really easy. The way they’re doing this,
there’s no skill to it. This is basically a machine built wheel. She’s just putting the
spokes in place, yeah. How long does it take
you to build a wheel? – Less than a half hour. – And it’s organic? – It’s slow and nice. – Therapeutic. – The worst thing is a bad rim. When you get a rim that just fights you. Just doesn’t want to be true. – You know what’s the
easiest wheel to build? You’re getting in to fat bikes. Fat bikes wheel are so easy to build. – Yeah. – Like road bike wheels are the hardest and fat wheel bikes are the easiest. – Oh my gosh, those things don’t budge. – It’s hard to screw up. You wanna learn how to build, I tried to get one of our guys, inspiring him to be somebody. I said, you can our top mechanic, but you gotta get wheel
building skill down. – Right. – And he practiced, this is like I think the first Luna Cycle employee, officially. Back when it was just me,
Ashley and nobody else, for years before we started the website. And this guy, to this day,
couldn’t like assemble a bike, much less build a wheel, but I think if I had a kid, I would want him to learn how to build it. It’s like changing brakes. Every kid should know
how to change brakes. One of the best thing my dad did for me, is when my car would break down, I would have to change my own brakes. And I wish somebody would have forced me to build my own wheel when I was a kid. And my dad, I bet you’re that kind of dad and that how you got such amazing kids. – They learned a lot. They didn’t build wheels, but
we definitely pushed them. – You never made them build a wheel? – My two girls were not
too heavy into the– – Oh, you got girls, girls are different. Hey, in fact, you built
a bike for your daughter. – I did. – Do you got a picture of that one? – Yeah, that’s the Schwinn. – Oh, that’s the first picture we saw. – That’s the Schwinn
with the wicker basket. – Oh my God, that thing’s beautiful. I’ve never seen that picture. – You know I found that bicycle in somebodies trash, in
another neighborhood. It was just laying on
the side of the road. It’s a Schwinn Ladies three speed. – [Eric] I picked that same
basket for my girly bike, it caught on fire, but yeah that’s right. – And so my daughter loves it. She has it at college, it gets her… The great thing college
can be really hard– – [Eric] It’s all black, too, right? – What’s that? – [Eric] It’s all black? That’s one of the innovations
we did to the industry. – The Pie? – [Eric] Oh my god. Do you know the Pie was known for, I call it the chrome dicks. – That was so ugly. – [Eric] Yeah and I told
them I wanted mine all black. It was an innovation. Pretty soon now they don’t even make the chrome ones anymore. – You really stretched it
out of the box for ’em. – I go, what do you
mean you want all black? I go, I want all black
or I’m not buying ’em. Now I think everybody, the first time somebody else
ordered them in all black, I went you copy cats. It’s actually a really good
motor and I’ll tell you why. Everybody always talks
about Mac Motor or whatever, cause they’re just repeating
what they’ve hear before. But the Golden Pie, it’s a large diameter, so that makes it great automatically and it’s got a built in
FLV sign wave controller. – And it’s a torque based too. It’s really good. – I can’t believe how thin
those steel forks are though. – Those are Schwinn Ashton
Bulla, you know, 70s. – You got torque arms on there? – [Adam] Yeah, the outside. – You don’t think it would
snap those forks like a twig? – [Adam] Uh-uh, well, no. – It had region too, right? – – [Adam] It has region, so
the side calipers are not… it’s not horrible. It definitively plays a nice role. – You know I haven’t thought about the Golden Pie for a few years, but when you asked me when we
first got into the business I was thinking you know, which
hub motor should we sell? I still think Golden Pie makes the best motors in the industry. The industry hasn’t changed at all when it comes to hub motors. – [Adam] Isn’t that weird? – Oh, yeah, except for that motor. – [Adam] The secret weapon. Is that two-speed? – [Eric] That’s the most
advanced hub-motor I can find. I introduced it and I thought
everybody would love me. It just made the dealer
guys kind of hate me. They hate me anyway, going
and doing the two speed. But man, we worked so hard to do that kit. And that’s our Cyclone with the… – [Adam] On the Rhino? – Yeah, and we’re building
all this cool shit and oh man, people are gonna love this. The more better shit we built, the more the regular
guys kind of hated us. – [Adam] Haters gotta hate. – This guys really hate me right now. This is Kim Reid from,
he wanted a Sur ROn deal. Yeah, he wanted to sell the Sur Rons. – [Adam] Oh well. Yeah, I think I’m gonna do a
two speed for my wife’s bike. – Oh yeah, that’s a really good motor. So we went do to China and arranged that whole two-speed deal. And here’s one my secrets, I let it go on this video, and I don’t think anybody
watched my videos back then. But I’m running a 72 volt
battery through that baby. – [Adam] I saw that, you were
streaming up that hill, too. – Yeah, I was like, oh man, I can’t believe I had long hair even then. – [Adam] What’s the controller on that? – Man, look at how long my hair is. Did I really look like that? It’s so crazy. I look really good with long
hair when I was younger. – [Adam] That’s a pretty high tech battery solution you got there. – I do look like a homeless guy. Look at that. I mean look, on that
trike, I do look homeless. – Rolling the three wheeler with the… – [Eric] I mean, awesome. I didn’t realize a whole
long hair way back when. – That is classic. – I think honestly, I didn’t get a haircut from when I started Luna
Cycle up until recently. Like, seriously. – [Adam] You’re looking fresh. – Thanks man. I mean, doing it for the
World Series of Poker I didn’t do it for anything else. I just wanna see how bad I looked. I want to see how bald I’m getting. And then I’m gonna go into
the World Series of Poker clean shaven so nobody recognizes me. Yeah, I love this motor. We put so much work into that damn kit. – [Adam] Really? – And we didn’t sell that many. I learned the hard way. You’re doing stuff that
you think is gonna help the Do-It-Yourself industry. We put a lot of work into work into, we do this, well, you have
a Tangent motor, right? – [Adam] Yeah. – So you need a double free well. – [Adam] Right. – So we did a lot of
work on this Luna Tic. I mean it was like a
year of development time and back and forth with
the Taiwan factory, to make that for a triple free wheel. Because the problem with those systems is that if the free wheel locks up, you can injury yourself badly. – Right. – So back in those days, the only people who sold a kit like this was Sick Bike Parts and
that used a $10 free wheel. And the only choice was this
white industry free wheel, it was $80. So anyways, we got this free
wheel that was the quality of White Industries, even better, because it will deal with sideways torque. Because the sideways torque
is what causes them to lock and all these guys were getting injured doing mid drives. And I’ve always been
a mid drive supporter. And I thought I was doing a big one for the community. And I posted it up on the mid drive thread on Endless Sphere. And Amber Wolf deleted
it and goes no spam. I go holy shit. I go look guys, this is what we’ve been
waiting for, I made it. And it’s kind of like, I get hit. Same with that dual hum motor thing man. That wasn’t just a motor. We had to get a controller
and a display working with it. That was like diagnostics in the display. It should have changed everything. But it takes a lot of work to build it, to build the wheel and everything. I prefer to just sell the kit than sell it, because when you
do it with the wheel build, I think we lost our wheel
builder at that time. That’s when we went through
this three month phase. Remember that Ashley? It took us three months to
find a decent wheel builder we were happy with. So it was just bad timing, and I don’t think we sold
very many of those kits. It was never a big… we sell more BBSHDs in
a week or something. So what free wheel did you
use on that Cyclone bike? Let’s go back to, oh wow, that’s me. Look that’s me and I’m
gonna take that controller. Watch, I remember now. – [Adam] Uh-oh, looks like
you’re throwing it at somebody. – That was the big controller, the one that I had in my hand. Everybody was using that controller for those little-bitty hub motors. And I think I threw it. – [Adam] That’s crazy. Yeah, I think I threw it. Guess how much that controller
used to cost back then? That was only two years ago. Guess how much it was? It’s from Paulie M 3V
that’s a $200 controller. 40 amps, $200. My cost on that controller is 20 bucks. – [Adam] It looks like a toaster. – So fucking ugly. Like we sell the ASI. And I thought that
would change everything. Look, there I go, I throw it, bam. But look, this is our
controller, it’s tiny. You see, puts out the
same amps and it’s tiny. It’ll take 72 volts, how’s that? – [Adam] And then your new– – Duct tape, no backpack
batteries for me guys. – [Adam] No, zip ties and gaffer tape. – Duct tape, man. Duct tape works great. Duct tape and mighty mini
on all our prototypes. Like when we had a backpack battery bike, because we do a lot of
prototypes actually. Nobody wants to ride it. It’s like, oh my god. – [Adam] Strapping on your bike. – Oh my god, I don’t even
know what that thing is. I don’t even consider it a bike once you, but duct taping it is just as bad almost. But we’re just testing this bike so we’re not trying to, I think everybody should take the pride to build the bike properly. That’s the hard part is
getting the battery to fit. Everything else is easy now. – That’s what took most
of my time building. – Look at this display on this thing. So why isn’t anybody buying anything else? So that hub motor, just changed, it’s two speeds. And you know how it changes gears. It changes direction of the motor. – Yeah that is trick. – Sick, it’s really sick. It’s the most advanced motor I have seen. – How’s the durability been on it? – Awesome, awesome. For that little motor it’s good. I kind of lost sight on hub motors. Like this one kind of just
took the air out of me. – Right. – And you know, I thought
about getting back into ’em, but I really want a
wheel building machine, because our wheel builder is just tapped. ‘Cause you know, he builds the wheels and all the apexes for all those– – For all the bikes. – Yeah and we don’t want
anyone else doing it. So like on a high end bike, we don’t want it going out
and the spokes coming loose. For a while I was gonna buy
a wheel building machine. – You gotta build a lot of wheels. – They came over here and talked to me, I couldn’t believe it. The wheel building company came here. – Was is Taiwanese or? – No, they’re German. Holland. They’re from Holland. They came to me and said
they’d lease it to me. And I go, shit. I was thinking about it, but I got too many projects. Last thing I wanna do is try to get a wheel building machine going. We got too many machines right now. Right as I say that,
we buy another machine. A wheel building machine
is not high on the list. – [Adam] A new plasma lava injection, molding robot cyborg brand. – Oh yeah, we want it robotized right now, so we’re doing a lot of stuff. I want to buy a robot and that’s like as much
as one of those machines, you know, just to feed material in? Press go. It’s like, oh my god. Wheel building you want to, like you said, it’s organic. My only fear is we loose our wheel builder ’cause he’s so valuable to us. Or we loose Kyle, the bike mechanic. Kyle can build wheels, but
he’s too busy building bikes. But that’s the test of
a real bike mechanic. Can they build a wheel or not? You know what Kyle tells me? If they could build a wheel, they’d be managing a shop. You’re not gonna find
any regular bike mechanic who can build a wheel. That’s here in California,
I don’t know it that’s– – But you can learn to
build a wheel in a day. – I don’t think so. I don’t think, these guys. We try to teach them how to assemble, but do you know how many bike
mechanics we’ve gone through? You’re dealing with a different
type of people right now. I mean, there’s guys who have
spent how long on the forums and still haven’t built their
first electric bike yet. – They’re checking it out. – Yeah, but how long, you know? I can understand if you’re
building electric motorcycle or something. But it’s like, it’s kind
of a different time. I think… Huh. As I look at these guys. There’s just a machine button pusher here. But in terms of actually building things like your bike, I don’t
see that very often at all. Like I said, I think your bike’s the best Do-It-Yourself
bike I’ve ever seen. That I can think of. Actually, pull up the Ducati bike. – That’s pretty sweet. – Yeah. But that guy was like, I went and visited him in Taiwan and expected to see a
machine shop in his garage and he had a little CNC
machine like this big. It’s so funny, it’s like the opposite. I knew he had a lot of money. And when I go visited his operation it’s actually way, way,
smaller than I ever… Really, like a $2000 CNC machine and he just works wizardry with it. You should get one. – I know. – There it goes. That’s all made out of a
little-bitty CNC machine. The jigs, he knows how
to weld and all that. He’s an excellent builder. But in terms of special machinery, his most special machine
is a tiny CNC machine because the guy’ so cheap. He’s like, multi-millionaire. He’s on the cover of Wired Magazine, he sold his company for
like 50 million dollars. – [Adam] Oh my gosh. Well, good for him. – Yeah, I tell him you
gotta buy a real CNC machine and he goes nah, save money. I’m gonna just, I used to
fight with him on this bike, one of these he’s built for me. Like I have one waiting for me. I’ve been waiting for the last five years. And one’s for Luke, one’s for me, and they’re made out of titanium. – Oh my. – Yeah. He’s actually got it going recently. He got lost on the Duty Cycle thing, which was like two hub motors. And now he’s back on this again and he’s put one one motor, his whole problem was
in the gear reduction. You see that? – [Adam] Yeah? – So it’s an Astro Motor and it’s got a gear reduction right there. Can you zoom in on that baby? And that was the big problem. And the way to do a gear reduction, actually, I got it right here on my desk, is to do it this way. You’ll love this. This will change your mindset. That’ll warp your mind. Look at that. That’s a harmonic gear
reduction right there. And that’s what the Ducati
has on it right now. – Really? – [Eric] Yeah. And you can get up to 201 on that. – Yeah. That’s pretty, pretty quality. – [Eric] Yeah, you can buy
one right now, on eBay. – Really? – [Eric] Yeah, I buy ’em used. – What does it come off of? – [Eric] What do they make with these? – Yeah. – I mean, they use them in
some kind of high end machine. But look, you see, you count the, can you imagine a little Astro Motor what it would do on this? But the problem with this is– – [Adam] It’s quiet? – It’s absolutely quiet. How come we don’t seem
more bikes with this? And know why he didn’t
build his bike with it? Expensive man. – You know what I used to fight, that beautiful bike he
wouldn’t spend on a Rohloff He goes too expensive man. He’d only do a DaVinci on it. – [Adam] That’s crazy. – How could you put a
DaVinci on that thing? The DaVinci is such a piece of crap. – [Adam] 500 high torque. – There you go. – [Adam] Wow. – Yup. That’s gonna be your next build. Do that and a 3220. If you do a– – [Adam] ‘Cause that’ll take a 20000 RMP. – And you hear how quiet
that is, this is quiet. – [Adam] Down to 200. – You can get it at any level you want. These are the ones on eBay right now. Hey baby, you might
wanna buy one of these. I think let’s buy one right now. Wait, go back. I think there was a good deal on one. If you see one for a couple hundred bucks, you should just snap it up. Right there, right there, go back. Before somebody else
does, we’re live, right? 14 to 50. What’s the reduction on this? 14, rated torque 50. It might be tiny. – [Adam] It looks pretty small. – But you don’t need much
for an electric bike. You know? You’d sometimes be surprised, they overrate some of these things. – [Man] It that what your holding? – No, this one’s beefier. What do you think, is
that what I’m holding? Lemme see, that’s a good question. What is this at? Damn it, shopping while live streaming is the worst thing ever. – [Adam] It’ll say on
the front there, 1450? – It says 1450, buy it. Buy it baby, buy now. Yeah, buy it now. Same one. Merry Christmas, we’ll get it for you. Buy now. – [Adam] Boom. – Got it. Yeah. Buy it on my computer. Just jump over on my computer. This is live baby,
before somebody grabs it. (laughing) Dude, that’s like a thousand
dollar reduction here. – [Adam] That’s classic. – Seriously, I was like
pricing these things out. They’re made in Germany and stuff. Hey somebody, grab on
my computer and buy it. Oh, as she’s buying it. Ashley’s like Flash. Anyway, so Adam, let’s
talk about your accident and how that changed everything. – Yeah, that was– – That was like, one of
the most, I remember you. that’s when we became friends. When you started inspiring me. Because whenever I get unhappy
about something stupid, I think about that story. – Huh. – And you’re still living with it now, your day to day is dealing with pain. Are you feeling the pain now or we got your mind off it a little bit? – Got my mind off it right
here, so this is good. – After this we’re going to
take you to a Korean restaurant. – We’ll go get some Korean barbecue. – And some beer and forget all about it. So go ahead and tell us it. – So I got into electric bikes as kind of a therapy for recovery
from a really severe burn. What happened was my neighbor, elderly couple, had a kitchen fire. And they came out of the
house asking for help. And I saw them and I
grabbed a fire extinguisher and went in and there were
a couple of different fires in the kitchen. And so I put them out with
the fire extinguisher, but the smoke was just
billowing off of the cook top. There was a pan on the cook top. And I could hear the
smoke alarms going off, and smoke was filling the house and I didn’t know if there
was anyone else in the house. ‘Cause things were moving really fast. And so I said, “We gotta get
this pan out of the house” because this house was
filling up with smoke and so I picked it up. And when I picked up the
frying pan it exploded. – [Eric] Oh my god. – So it was full of burning oil, which I didn’t know at the time. And so it had a lid on top of it and when I picked up the pan, the lid rocked a little bit, and oxygen flooded under and it was a six foot fireball. So took the eyebrows off. Burnt my nose and my ears– – [Eric] Third degree burns. – Second degree burns on my face. But the oil, I leaned back and all of the burning oil
from the pan covered my hand. And so my hand was on
fire with burning oil. And so that was pretty severe. – [Eric] And your right hand
and you’re right-handed. – And I had the fire extinguisher
still in my left hand so I ended up putting my hand out with the fire extinguisher, but it was… it’s what they call third
degree, deep tissue, so the bones were exposed,
the tendons were burned, it was big. – [Eric] It’s a real problem. – Yeah, it was pretty messy. So it was five days in ICU and a couple of skin grafts and some reconstruction on the hand. You know, that’s one of the more painful types of injuries that you can go through. And the recovery is fairly, fairly long and drawn out. And so I started looking for something to keep me, my brain active. And I had been thinking before that about maybe building an electric bike or something like that. I built some 250 or some 25CC,
two stroke bikes in the past. And so I thought, yeah, I think
I’ll get into electric bikes and that’s when I started
spending a lot of time going through the Luna site and the website Electric Bikes. – [Eric] And you found Tangent. (laughs) – Yeah, I found Tangent. – [Eric] Tangent’s the real deal. – Right. So it helps that I’m in my 50s and I have some disposable income so I can find some fun stuff to build. – [Eric] You built, like
probably one of the coolest self-built bikes I’ve ever seen. – But it was so great, because it was a community, it was great connecting with you. We had some great discussions. It was two o’clock in the morning to four o’clock in the morning, three or four nights a week,
that was kind of my routine. Doing some research and learning. – I remember having long
discussions with you, and you told me that story and it really inspired me. ‘Cause I tend to stress
out over stupid stuff. And when I see a friend that’s going and we felt like friends, even though we never met. But you tell me this amazing story and all the amazing things you do, the builds you do, and then you gave one of the best gifts anybody ever gave me. And I know the pain you were in, to get that gift, while you were in pain. And I just want to show it. He made this with his own
hands when he was hurt, and it’s really a brilliant design. Do you want to tell us about it? And imagine he made
this, after his accident, his right hand’s really messed up. And at the time, the Wolf
Pack was not even conceived. We were just doing custom
battery packs for each bike. Kind of like your bike. I think maybe I was inspired by your bike when I think about it. The second I saw that bike, I go, why can’t we do that? – [Adam] Battery solutions. – Yeah, but anyways. He sent me this. It’s a work of art, I walked
around showing everybody that. – Well, I just, you had been talking about looking for new mounting solution, and kind of form factor
and things like that. – [Eric] I was playing with magnets. – Yeah, so I had been
thinking about magnets too. – [Eric] That’s right, that is magnetic. I forgot all about that ’cause I lost the key to
that thing a long time ago. – Got it. – [Eric] So here’s your
magnetic mounted pack and I was obsessed with
magnets at the time. And I had serious mechanical
engineers on my team telling me it just wouldn’t happen, that there was gonna be big
insurmountable problems. – So the big thing I
remember researching was, does a magnetic field
interrupt with the electrical? – Yeah, we know that’s no problem. – That’s no problem. So I said, if you don’t mind, lemme play around and I’ll just ship ya– – It’s the most amazing
gift anyone ever gave me. I mean, that I can remember. – Yeah, so that was the– – [Eric] Like a stranger
from the Internet. Look, it’s rusting. – The magnetic Wolf. – Look at this guys, this is like, look at this, this is the beginning of the Wolf Pack right here. At the time we were
really fighting a battle. We were building custom
batteries for custom bikes, that was our idea. And we’d do batteries 10 at
a time and it’s too tough. Like every battery design is… it was back when we though
battery design was easy, ’cause we’re spot welding. And so now that we’re wire welding, it’s more of a thing. But this is beautiful. I forgot all about it,
that it was magnetic. Shit. And see, he uses a lot of little magnets. That’s better. Are you a mechanical
engineer by any chance? – [Adam] No. – We have a mechanical
engineer on our team who is pretty good with magnets and a lot of little magnets is better than one big magnet. And the closer you have them
together, the better too. But this is beautiful. It’s starting to rust, huh? Gotta put some oil in there. Is that wood or is that metal? Right here, that’s wood. That’s just wood. – [Adam] Where? – Here, that’s just wood. – That is wood, yeah. – Stained wood. I thought it was rust. When I think of magnet mounts now, I think of these things rusting. So on our pack, did you know this? I don’t know if you’ve
seen our pack lately. Look at this. We use a, it took us a
while to figure this out. – [Adam] That’s the new stainless, right? – Magnetic stainless. It was really hard to get,
magnetic stainless steel and then we used a laser to engrave it. So at first we did stickers and then we put a layer of potting on it. But when you put a layer,
to keep it from rusting. First we’d gun metal ’em. So I learned how to do gun metal. – Kind of the bluing? – We did bluing. Exactly bluing. And we did that and it was just messy. It’s too messy to do in
California, I’ll tell you that. And we’re gonna get in trouble for this. – It’s not non-toxic. – Like we do it outside, like we wouldn’t do it in the building, but in California that shit’s not cool. So I knew we needed another solution. So I go why don’t we
just paint the potting over the top of the pack? So I’m telling people now. At first we just put the potting over and let the potting run off. But then it gets to thick on it and it really makes a huge difference. Like you want as close
to the metal as possible. So now I’m telling people, scrape it off with a screwdriver and then just oil it
every once in a while. – It’s surface rust, it’s nothing. – But bluing is basically
just oiling it anyway. The same way your gun rusts,
every once in a while. Put some oil on it, you’ll be fine. – Boy, these turned out so great though. I mean, that’s just such a quality. It’s not just like you took a
form factor and improved it. I mean, you took the battery. – Well we looked at this thing for months. He uses a really, well, a lot
of people are complaining now that we don’t have this,
a locking mechanism. – Right. – You know what I mean? – Mm-hmm. – But I did look at this design and it did set us in
a different direction. Because for one, you became my friend and I really wanted to show you that this had an impression on me. I started loving the idea of wood. Working with wood. And we had already been
doing a lot of wood molds with our routers, with the custom packs. But then we went nuts. We made this one by hand. This is the original Wolf, right here, and this is a gift for you. It’s the very, very first Wolf. – No way. – And it’s made by hand. – That is very cool. – Yep and you see it has the
original thing on the back and you can take that off and you have the second
generation of Wolf’s since we use that very
piece to make the castings that we use to make all the boxes with and it’s a gift for you. So I hope that means something to you. – [Adam] Thanks that’s
very cool, it’s a lot. – It’s actually the original Wolf. We don’t need it anymore because now we made it out of, we don’t make it out of billet. – That’s like… – But for what we needed at the time– – 15 pounds. – Yeah, billet. Oh, Jesus. (groans) – That’s 30 pounds. – [Eric] Yeah and it’s like
don’t drop it on your foot. – Right. – Yeah and so we use… basically at the time I had a lot of good engineers around me and they’re always telling me like man, you don’t use CNCs for making parts because we’d have the CNCs and we’d just have them
running making parts, making sprockets or whatever, adapters. Like no, no, no. In my old age I’ve become just like them, is that CNCs are just
made for making tooling. I really think like that right now. – Jigs and prototyping– – Not even prototyping, just
a prototype when we do wood. I love wood but… Oh, you can route with wood,
but you ruin your CNC machine. So we don’t have… right now we don’t have
any CNC machine setup. but at at one time I
did just to make wood. Here we go, that’s us cutting. That’s not wood, that’s
some kind of weird plaster and boy would it mess up the machine. And then the machine can’t
cut metal after that, because you know the problem
with cutting metal with the CNC is after you cut wood with it, cut metal after it you start a fire. – [Adam] ‘Cause you got
all the all the dust just accumulated in the– – Here’s our very first custom battery pack right there. It’s called the Ludicrous,
the Luna Ludicrous. – [Adam] It’s tight. – And see we, wow, Ashley good
job finding these pictures, but that was our first custom battery. This way before you inspired me with this. You probably inspired me with
that other bike of yours. I go man, if some guy with
no tools could do that. – [Adam] And one hand. – Imagine what we can do? I didn’t know you had
one hand at that time. – [Adam] That’s funny. – But this is one of those
Chinese fat suspension bikes and we’d assemble everything here and suspension looks
good, works like shit, and so against what I believe in. I believe, you know, I believe in no suspension is better than bad suspension every time. So even if you put a decent fork, that has a DNM fork on it
which stands for do not move. It has that front suspension fork, those are both cheap as crap. Like I hate, I would never put a name on anything like that right now. This is really cheap suspension. I think those suspension
forks cost me like 25 bucks. – [Adam] Ack, that makes me nervous. – Yeah and it’s like if you
have some crappy suspension, I think that bike would move like an inch. Boy, does it look good. Everybody wants like full suspension, it’s like I don’t know what
it is about the Chinese, but they cannot figure out suspension yet. Ain’t it funny? But look how beautiful those rims are. Beautiful man, they got the
rims figured out for sure. And there’s our sprocket so. And you know when we did this
you don’t see many companies doing custom batteries for the bike. – [Adam] No. Just the big boys. – Yeah, no, not even them man. I don’t think anybody… maybe specialized does
a little two batteries and they make them generic
and they fit in every bike. If you notice like specialized bikes, they don’t even change
your component system. They use the same component system across the whole electric bike line. That’s really weird. – [Adam] Interesting. – Yeah, like they make them
as low variance as possible. They definitely use the
same motor, same battery. But yeah, but that was our very
first custom electric bike. I don’t think that we were big
into selling bikes at first. We were more into just
surviving selling kits and doing batteries and I remember– – I mean the BBS was just
big for you guys, right? I mean it just– – Well yeah it was big for us, but at the time we started selling kits and then we started building batteries. Well, we first start building batteries and we realized you can’t sell batteries without kits and vice versa. And that the step to build
bikes was a big step for us and it’s something I always think about, do we really want to be building bikes? Like it’s a lot. I remember thinking exactly
that 80% of our company’s effort is going into these bikes. But we’re not gonna become a bike brand just selling BBSHD kits
with cool batteries. And what makes my heart thump
is like bike builds like yours like I forgot who you were
and how we became friends until I saw that first
bike of yours, I love it. So that right there is
absolutely the first bike that Luna built and it
came from a challenge from Electric Cycles and they said that they had some guy post on Endless Sphere, I’ll never forget this thread, that he bought this bike from
Electric Cycles pre-built and it was only like a
few hundred dollars extra than buying a kit from us
and buying the bike online. And we said fuck that, and we said we’re gonna build the bike and we’re gonna offer it for $1000 cheaper than Electric Cycles is doing. (Adam laughing) Exactly what we did and you know what? We built that bike and we
went and bought the bike from a local store and
offered it for a thousand, from Will World, bought
it from Will World, brought at home and one night we built it and I said we’re gonna do this and see how dirty everybody’s hands are? That’s Joshua Welder in the far left, that’s Santiago, he’s
like a master builder. It’s ’cause that bike was
fucking hard to build. That like was one of the
hardest bikes we’ve ever built because we didn’t know
any, here’s the thing is, we didn’t learn about bikes until we really start building bikes. So that one had some
weird a bottom bracket. A PF41 or whatever. So the kit just didn’t fit in it. So we had a lathe and we had to sit there and make an adapter for it
and we wanted it to be done and on the website that night. So yeah and now we sell
the adapters, make ’em, and it was really good for
us to learn about the kits. ‘Cause I said look, I want
to have every single adapter, those are made here. We could make those. Right now we got a machine that just makes a thousand of those and like it’s a little robot. You just stick a big rod in
the back and it’s like such, baby, are we really
charging 36 bucks for that? Lower that, we should be
charging 20 bucks for that. It’s such an easy piece to make. But anyways, we ended up as a company becoming way stronger by
building our own bikes in-house because we always have
bike experts around us. Whenever I have a question about it, hey, why does this bike do this? You learn a lot about everything. – ‘Cause you’re not a reseller. You’re a creator. – That’s right. – And that’s the… that’s where the magic happens I think. – I’m glad we did it and sometimes I think we
would have made more money just focusing on parts and we wouldn’t have
needed such a big space. Look at that, those are
all my initial mechanics. No wonder do they all suck. – [Adam] Man, no wonder… no wonder you’re focused on kits. (laughs) – Yeah, but I remember we… I remember buying back in those days that was when we’re in Gardena and making the step to
building whole bikes and we sold a lot of
bikes right off the bat, because first electric, ah
they only have one bike. Watch this. And like in three or four weeks
we had a lineup of 10 bikes. This bike we’re really proud of, that’s the Banana bike. We brought in close cycles by the… it’s originally Super 73. I believe Super 73 used
close cycles like this one, the Taiwan Trade Show is best bike ever, like best bike of the show. And suddenly Super 73 is selling this with the BBSHD as a Kickstarter project. And anyways, we released this bike before the Kickstarter
project bike shipped. So it’s either us or Super 73 came first, but the original prototype
bikes from Super 73 were based on close cycles. And then they ended up, after
they got everybody’s money, building their own bike, but then we came to market
with this and released it before they actually shipped their bikes. And that bike cost us like 600 bucks. – [Adam] That’s a cool bike. – You know like we got samples from China of a prebuilt bikes like, who are they? That that bikes made out of steel. Amario’s or whatever and you know, it’s expensive to build this bike because the frame cost us like 600 bucks, but I haven’t seen anything yet. I’ve seen the Super 73s
and their scramblers. The quality of that bike is insane and it shouldn’t be that hard, I mean it’s the easiest
bike in the world to weld. Like when we ever think
about just designing a bike from scratch, we look at this bike. But they just did everything perfect, like every weld, the paint’s really good. The colors on the rims and you know, I don’t know why but whenever
I look at another bike, like it’s just way off. Like they get they get
too fancy with the bins. I haven’t seen a good one of these that beats are bike or I would go with it, because it’s really
expensive for what it is. It’s 600 bucks of wholesale cost and we buy them by the container. – [Eric] That is crazy. – Yeah and then we have to build them. We buy them as just bicycles and then we have to put the
kits and everything on them. – [Adam] Motor ’em up. – So this is us all riding. This is back when we were in Gardena and this was a normal ride for us. We would just go down to a
park nearby and and rip it up. That’s all we had, just used what you had. Now we got the beach and
all that stuff, but– – So how is the E-bike
vibe here in California? Is it accommodating or
is it kind of oppressive? – You know that’s a really good question. I think it’s accommodating. I think it is accommodating everywhere, but when you’re doing stuff like this, it’s kind of asshole-ish, I’m gonna lie. You know like riding around in the park. But we’re doing it at
night, nobody’s there. Like the park people told us it was okay that were running the park, like they said just do it after we’re gone and so this was after everybody was gone and the park people even
gave us their blessing and we just ripped this up. But we’re filming a video,
there’s a reason for it, but here’s us doing it in
Palos Verdes when we ride. But as long as you keep a low profile and don’t ride a bike that’s
obviously a electric bike, you’ll have no problem at all. It’s the guys who ride stuff that’s outwardly an electric bike. So I think that laws and
and stuff like that helps because it makes us all build
bikes that are stealthy. That don’t have an impact
on the environment. I think when you hear what
happened to gas scooters, they became illegal not because
people hated gas scooters, but they hated noise. And nobody wanted electric
scooters ’cause they’re too slow. And nobody cares if your
electric scooter is too fast in my experience, nobody. So yeah, these are bikes, these guys both ended up joining our team. That’s Josh and his dad and those are bikes that
they built together. – [Adam] I think I read that on the blog. – Yeah, those are two
really precious guys to us and look at the hard tail bikes. This guy on the left is, both of them are hell of riders. Never had the need for full suspension. I tell Josh, he thinks
about it all the time. Didn’t I give him a full suspension? No, I gave him a really good 3000. Oh and the big point, somebody
was asking me this lately, because we used to ride a lot back then. Oh, Matt was asking me. Like why don’t we go out, and you can see this kind
of stuff we did a lot, and just try to go up big
hills like this, taking turns. We did this kind of thing all the time. All of us rolled fat tire bikes and fat tire full suspensions
are hard to come by. So we just do, you know? So anyway, that was our thing
was riding fat tire bikes because we’re by the
beach, it’s kind of sandy. – [Adam] It’s nice on the beach. – I love, for off-road
riding I love fat tires and front suspensions such
a what do you call it? Luxury with with a fat bike
you already got all the– – Oh yeah, just take a few more pounds out of the tire and soften it up. – I still don’t know a decent
fat bike full suspension, like I think that’s really over the top. I don’t know if they’re offering them yet, but to me fat bikes have
always made really sense as a builder because they
look ridiculously cool and you don’t have to worry
about the extra hires. – Yeah, as an electric
bike, they’re awesome. – Did they have them when you were managing your bike store or no? – You know they had just
started I think from Iditarod doing double rim laced together. – Oh! And they do two wheels and then what would they use for tires? – Gosh, what they would use for tires? – Pugsley was the first that I know of. – The Pugsley? – That’s the very first
tire fat bike I know of. – Yeah. – But that’s Carl. He’s like six foot eight. Yeah, trying to get him down
here, do a podcast with him. He’s so cool. – [Adam] Is that the Apocalypse? – Yeah, that guy’s funny. He used to ride backpack
batteries and I’d make fun of him. (Adam laughing) What are you doing with
that backpack battery? (chuckles) Anyway, so going back on this. So I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but this is what what
we do is we make a box and then we fill that what either, you know we put the battery in it and then we pot it from there. And lately we’ve seen it looks really cool if we paint it from the bottom, it’s like kind of gel coating. – Yeah. – There’s so many… it just been endless on how good lately, I don’t know if this is one of
the latest batteries or not, but we got a problem with these breaking because these were 3D printed pieces, so we had to have these plastic injected. – [Adam] So they’re just brittle? – Yeah, it’s first we 3D printed ’em and we just changed the material
we’re making them out of, like these are kind of rubbery and the brand-new ones use
plastic injected pieces that are tough as nails. And also like we started
using jigs when we pot ’em because if you look at older ones, like this one’s probably an older one. No, we were using jigs here. You could tell that they
would kind of bow out. – [Adam] Oh, right. – And then it would be
a little bit heavier than if you just, so we had to make, and guess how we made
the wood and the jigs? Aw, I gave myself away. As wood. – [Adam] There you go. – So now when everything’s about tooling, it’s so much easier to make
tooling really fast out of wood ’cause a lot of what we’re
doing is just fixturing or holding things down. Like right now we’re
doing new battery design, a new wire bond pack and
we’re working on the fixture and we’re debating. I want to just make that
wood and be done with it, but we don’t have a wood shop. While you’re down you
should make it for us. – Yeah, knock a couple out. – Yeah you could probably
make it in no time if we still had our wood shop together, but unfortunately though and here, I want you to see this one. This is the first Apex
pack made out of wood. And I believe that we
just carved that by hand. – Really? – Same with that one,
that was made by hand. These are not seeing CNCed. – That’s crazy. – Yeah and you know what the hard part is, is getting that perfect smooth finish. We really had big,
because we were casting, we were trying to pull off casting instead of just vacuum form,
vacuum forming is easy. But when we casted any imperfections, you see that one got
the crack down the side? Down the middle? – Yeah. – [Eric] That’s from
breaking it out of cast. You know we cast this shape for example. – Sure. – And you can see all the imperfections come out really quick, but if you make that cast out of aluminum you get a really shiny result. We just recently, can you, do we got the new Apex pack we can show? We just recently finished. Casting kicked our ass for six months. Finally figured it out. We add like casting experts
coming over here from… work for Disney and stuff. And like we figured out okay,
we got closer to casting when we start doing CNC
shapes, aluminum shapes, because the wood just, when
you break it out of the mold, the wood would break apart so we wouldn’t get that many shots at it. So when we do this and this one, before we could use it for a mold, we’d have to shine it, we’d
have to buff it all out. – Mm-hmm so it’ll release a little easier and give a good finish? – Yeah, with casting
every little detail counts and when we started doing
this we got a lot closer to getting what we wanted and then finally we finally got it, but still
like castings really scary because if you screw up, we got a lot of visually imperfect packs that we’re gonna bring you one right now. But we finally figured it out and it involved actually molding the, what do you call the outer? Making the whole deal. What would you call that? Making the whole tool. – The, yeah. – The casting, the mold. Not the mold. This is the slug, but we
now actually make the mold and that ended up being
the answer but trying… usually you put this in silicone and the silicone dries
and you get your mold. Oh shit and you got try to
get this pack off of here, because this is, look
she can’t get it off. – Ha, ha. – Yeah, bring the whole thing up. I wanted to see how
strong that magnet holds. So this is it. This is the new Apollo pack. – [Adam] That’s such a good-looking pack. – Yeah, it’s all clear. She just did this, this is
my first time seeing it, the side panel. How come you didn’t do
the other side baby? – [Woman] Didn’t have time. – Didn’t have time ’cause
gotta start the podcast. – That’s looking good. – That’s made within MJ1 cells. See the little ripples in there baby, you gotta hit that with a heat gun. But yeah, show it to
the camera if you can. But yeah that that’s how we evolved and see that’s a pretty
big evolution from this. And this was our first real
attempt at a real pack. So this came out kind of imperfect and we didn’t even know how to clave this, when we autoclave what
it comes out way better. And the magnetic mount what
this nub works perfect. – [Adam] Just locks it. – Locks it. Did you see him over there kicking at it? – [Adam] Yeah, right. – It’s not coming off the bike. And our goal was we wanted it
to look like aliens made it. – [Adam] I like that. – That’s been our goal
the whole time, but… and the Wolf packs been, yeah, so it all started with your thing and when I saw this, like oh my god, like we got to be able to
have something like this and then just kind of evolved. – [Adam] That was fun,
it was just right time. – Yeah. And you know what? And I want to show you this one. This is our first attempt
and boy is that ugly. (Adam laughing) – It looks like a space shuttle. – That’s a 3D piece. Now the person who made
that’s not an engineer. She’s an industrial designer. She’s a great industrial designer, but we used to call her, she’s
too much in arts and crafts, and there’s big problems with that one. It’s too big. So it doesn’t, we needed something that form fit the 18650s
as close as possible because otherwise we’re wasting
all this money on potting and she was buying this
potting from this store and she wasn’t doing the math right and she was buying it by the gallon. It was like 300 bucks a gallon and she said but it only uses
like 30 bucks to pot a pack and I actually measured it
and it’s really costing us like 200 bucks each to pot a pack. (laughing) – Right. – We used to call her arts and crafts, like she was more in arts and crafts and then when we started
having our engineers go at it we started to come up with real solutions, like we need exactly this
much space around the cells and so that shape there
became exactly what we needed. And here you can see it, it
becomes even more advanced where we have the shape
with the BMS in it. And then step by step it just
became better and better. This one still has wires in it, but you can see this
Wolf here, it has no… if you look at a pack usually
with the case off of it– – It’s ugly, it looks so vulnerable too. – Oh, they’re terrible. Yeah, the weakest part of the battery, once we got everything else
down, is the harness wires. And one harness wire comes loose, vibrates loose or
whatever, the pack is gone. So anyways, we struggled
with wire harness, or somebody fuck’s up building it. So the way we figured out
was the way to win harnessing was not to harness, like just– – Get rid of it. – Get rid of it completely. And we just took it to an extreme and I want to say wireless pack even though it’s a wire bond pack. And I’ve never talked
about this pack in video, but wire bonding and
aluminum buses like that and we heat gun under an
infrared every pack we build, you know the first prototypes. These packs don’t get warm at all and the potting helps dissipate the heat and it just did wonders for us. So if you take your pack
that you built for your bike and set that inner tube,
just put a bit of potting on, I’ll give you something
to take home with you. Hold it in place, help
with the heat dissipation, ’cause you need something to
transfer the heat to the case. – Got it, makes sense. – Yeah because if you just put foam in it, it becomes like a– – Insulator. – That’s right. And certain pottings have
different heat installations and we know all that from real testing. Like now we got real equipment that I’ve always dreamed of having and we just found out so much so fast, but what you want is something
that just dissipates the heat to the case as fast as possible. – Well it’s pretty amazing, when we walked through
the battery development and production, just the
investment you’ve made in the tooling and the testing and the technology that the the Wolf pack, this new version has is… it just seems like there’s nothing, I mean the only thing that comes
close is inside of a Tesla. – Yeah, I agree. The Tesla battery is insane and we had one here for a long time and it helped inspire us. I mean every day it gets better, like we’re using a new wire bonder now. See how these wire bonds
are kind of crooked kind of? ‘Cause we’re using like
not a very good machine. Now we’re using the
very latest FNK machine and they came here to help train. – FNK. – FNK or FNJ? – The FNK, I like that, the FNK. – Is it FNK or what? Yeah and it does this
perfect straight wire that’s like, they’re this German company and it’s no-nonsense like it’s– – It’s very German. – It’s so straight and
it literally reduces the width of our pack
’cause we always have to take into account that
the wire bond has an oval. This one’s like nice and tight. – That’s cool. – I believe it’s the same machine that makes the model three pack and the other big thing it does is as it’s making the pack it checks and makes sure each bond is strong. – So it bonds it and then kind of tugs it? – And tugs it and it
photographs every single bond. So if there’s a problem
it’ll show you where it’s at and records every single bond it does and it does like five bonds
a second, it’s insane. And tugs each one, pull test each one, and then it uses vision
intelligence to recognize if anything’s wrong. It’s just insanely amazing and I don’t know how we got to this level and I think it’s just
the day that we’re living that there’s machines like that around and how we went from oh, we’re
gonna build cool batteries and cool bikes to running
what we’re doing over there, like it just kind of
blows my mind sometimes. – Yeah, but I mean it wasn’t accidental. I mean it was kind of a quest
for quality and improvement and just seeing and– – What’s that? – [Man] It was hard. – It was really hard. – Right. (laughing) – Like we still say like it’s
not wasn’t hard, it is hard. – Yeah, it’ll be hard
tomorrow and next week. – And it’s all your fault. I mean I think we would have
been fine just flipping stuff, like we didn’t have to– – Just selling kits. – Yeah like we didn’t have, I think you caught me on a bad path man. Like I think I remember
thinking that oh my god, like 80% of our energy, 80% of our space, we don’t need all that space we got there. And now we got an entire building dedicated to just battery building. – Right, yeah. – And it’s like so much that, we didn’t know what we needed. That was so much of the problem because it really is an R&D facility because like for example
we had an entire wood shop for a while that was
taking up a lot of space. That was your fault too. – Yep. – But wood helped us speed along until we got good at working with metal, until we got the laser cutter. The laser cutter and
the CNCs changed a lot. And a laser cutter
really changes everything because it’s good for making fixtures, it also makes circuit boards. I think we’re looking at one
of the battery packs you saw where we could make all our
own custom circuit boards and it makes everything really easy. But before we had those machines, we were forced to do
things by hand a lot more and now it turns out, I kind
of want a wood shop back if we could meet the right, do we have a picture of our wood shop? I always wanted you to see it intact. We just took it down
recently too, it’s sad. But anyway… Yeah, this is, okay so that’s what makes, we did that recently. As if we want a wireless pack. It makes more sense to have
wires coming out the back, because if you roast your connector… because you can’t dig a
connector out of that pack. So what we did is a redundancy. A double XT 90s and double XT 60s and to do that with no wires wasn’t easy ’cause you can’t just solder
aluminum to your XT 90s. So yeah, it was a lot… it’s a pain in the ass. Okay, there, I wanted
you to see that picture. That’s us making cases and
you see how we said one? We worked for I wanna to say,
three or four days straight betting, like bottles of tequila, on who could get a perfect result making six packs at a
time and it was hard. Everybody would get a
different shot at it. Like everybody would try what
they would think would be, okay, I’m gonna try this ’cause there’s all these
different variables when you’re making it. You can do a different mold release, you can do more vacuum,
how you turn on the vacuum, I forget, what was it? Oh, how you seal the
vacuum around the edges. Oh, how you place the molds on the sheet and that was our first perfect result and then we got that picture, but man we struggled with
that machine late nights ’till two in the morning
for three or four nights and then imagine, then we
have to cut all those out. And coming up with the way to
cut them was a pain in the ass like you wouldn’t believe
what path you set us on. And you see all the molds there? Those all came from the pack
that you’re taking home, see right there to the left? – [Adam] Yeah, that’s very cool. – Now all the time everybody says that we’re making our batteries in China, look here’s made in China for you. Does that look like some Chinaman? That’s when our batteries
had harnesses, you see that? – [Adam] Yeah. – And you know what we had
to do with the harnesses? We had to worry that harness
would plug into the BMS and that would cause
failures because the potting would interfere with the
connection of the BMS. It’s like you just learn it the hard way. Battery building is hard. So we put dialectic grease
inside to protect the harness. This is Luke, we made that for his
grandma when she died. He was crying, I’ve never
seen Luke cry before. He’s mister happy yeah
and his grandma wanted him to give those out and
we sent her this picture while she was on her deathbed and then we made a bunch
of those out of metal and we went and rivet
them to the sides of walls all the way up and down the beach. – Oh, that’s very cool. – The police came here the next day and Luke was still crying
from his grandma dying. That’s us, Luke hold this,
that’s us in Gardena right here. That’s Professor, Luke, we just built our first
battery that night man. We vacuum molded that
battery case that night and made our first custom battery. That bikes still in the lobby. I’ll trade you that bike for your bike. – [Adam] Ah, let’s talk. – But I was like hey, Adam Livingston. I just built one too. (Adam laughing) Look how cool that is. A custom battery really
makes it look awesome. I mean you can take the same bike and do a backpack battery
it looks pretty cool, but it’s not the same. – Yeah, it’s not. – Yeah, if we if we had more time we’d be doing more custom batteries, but right now, yeah. We went with your idea which
is a Shark pack basically, a Shark Killer and next we’re doing a bigger one called Dire Wolf. I haven’t told anybody that in public yet. And you saw our Dyno we got
running a month ago, right? That was fun. – Right, I mean so Dyno, that’s not something your
average E-bike guy gets. – I wanted one so long. We had bicycle Dynos like two or three. Remember that one we had Professor? We had one that made so much noise it’d fill up the whole,
we’ve been Dynoing bikes for a long time, but we had one and everybody would say
Josh, will you stop it? Will you take that thing outside? It made so much noise and it
was just this bicycle Dyno, it was just like a treadmill. – [Adam] This is full-on
motorcycle Dyno, right? – Yeah, it’ll take 500. We got we got guys bring
their electric bikes or energy tech and it’s scary. When somebody with real
horsepower gets on there, it makes all the stuff
we sell look like toys. Like that metal plate back there, you see that, it’s just
coated with rubber. Like the tires will feel
like they can explode– – [Adam] There’s a lot
of energy going on there. – That Dyno will take 500 horsepower. – [Adam] Crazy. – Yeah and it’s dangerous. That’s how come we’ve
clamped down the bikes ’cause you’ve heard of
all the horror stories, but when we first got it, we didn’t bother clamping down the bikes and we still don’t clamp them
down on bicycles, it’s dumb. Just when we’re doing the– – [Adam] The big stuff. – That’s a really fast run. I mean it’s probably got 30 horsepower whereas the stock horsepower, stock bike, probably has four or five so you know. Four or five horsepower is a lot, but on a electric bike you don’t get over two horsepower, not easily. What’s the most powerful bike
you’ve ridden, your bike? – Yeah. – It’s a pretty nice bike. – Yeah. – Dave Tangent is the one who
sells at, right, and how much are they about? – I think they’re about two. – Two grand? – Yeah. – Yeah, that’s worth it. Made in America– – He’s a great guy. He’s a, he’s brilliant. – Yeah, awesome. I know we made batteries
for a lot of his customers, including you. – Yeah. – Hey so how many amps are you putting out with that battery? You’ll put out a lot with a 45R. – Yeah, high 40s. – 40 amps, really? Yeah, high 40s, yeah. How many watts you get? – 3000 plus. – 3000 plus and you get 60 miles an hour? Bike must be really efficient. I’d love to Dyno it. – That would be fun. – If you’re ever down here, I’d love to Dyno a Tangent ’cause that’s what I really want to see. So far I haven’t seen any big efficiency difference in anything yet. You know what I’m not
finding having a Dyno? First we were all excited about it that we’re gonna release Dyno results. It’s come out to a thousand
watts of horse power. Almost across the board. Zero motorcycle, a thousand horsepower. A thousand watts per horsepower. I thought zero motorcycle of anything is gonna be super efficient, right? And bikes range from thousand
to 1200 Watts horsepower, but nothing gets down to that
some 750 watt you expect. – I feel like there’s
more room for efficiency in the lower power bikes too. No? – I think I’ve heard that Astro motors, what’s in your Tangent is
really, really efficient. That’s why I’d love to test it. – Yeah. – I have one, didn’t we
get it running recently? That Astro bike? – Yeah we got one running, we just haven’t got
around to testing it yet, but I think the the construction
quality in that motor, you got it for $2000
with the motor, right? That’s a really good deal ’cause the motor’s a thousand bucks. – [Adam] I know. – But they’re made here in Orange County and they’re aerospace grade. Like I think those guys
make it for military use or something, they’re
not making a E-bikers. – [Adam] Probably for unmanned. – Yeah we went over
there and checked it out and pull up a 3220, Astro 3220. I wrote a whole article on him and though I knew a really
good electrical engineer, I hope he’s still alive
his good friend of mine, Ron Z, and he built the nicest and he would claim incredible
efficiency numbers. He’s electrical engineer
and he’d run him on Dynos, but he’d run a really small one, like a 3210 or 3205, there you go. Yeah, these are guys I
was hanging out with. I was in the machine shop
building those with these guys and I haven’t tested one yet, but supposedly it’s the
most efficient motor. And when I talk to motor experts they’ll say all the efficiency numbers like for hub motors and stuff is wrong, because all around efficiency matters, not just peak efficiency. So with hub motors supposedly they’re only efficient at top RPMs. So you want something that’s efficient all across the RPM band. So with the Astro motor when
you’re using gear reduction it’s already spinning super fast. – [Adam] Right, it’s 20000
RPMs, blasting around. – So people used to claim
incredible efficiency numbers. I just want to see 700
watts per horsepower. I’d be amazed. This is a, look, this is Kim on his, that’s a 35-pound bike
or 40 pounds, insane. I mean that’s not a backpack battery. He’s using a HobbyKing pack
that fits in that bike. – [Adam] Lipos? – Yes. And that’s a good 65 70 miles an hour. Your bike should do that. But your battery limited right now. And I also I don’t know if
you’re Judy forks are gonna, we’re gonna get you a real
fork to take home with you. Yeah, there you go. That’s my friend Ron Z’s bike and see that system right
there, look how clean that was. I got one here in the
shop that he built for me and I don’t know why he
didn’t sell more of those, but that thing is freaking beautiful. – [Adam] Oh, he’s doing that
reduction was down there. – Yeah, he built all this. Well you know what he’s doing? He’s using something like this. He’s using a nugert, it’s called a nugert right there. That’s why when people tell
me so much is developed, nothing’s been developed. Like you know like we
haven’t seen anything. You know what was amazing
is the Tangent drive. – [Adam] That cycloidal gear reduction, that was pretty trick. – That was pretty trick. That is among the coolest things I’ve seen in then Do-It-Yourself industry and it’s the reason why I got in it was to do something exciting and I first thought I was
going to do a motor system like one of these, but we
decided to go with the batteries because without the battery– – [Adam] Thank you. – Without the battery you
don’t have anything else and for example, it’s cool
that you can buy a battery that can put out the amps for your system and fit in that cool bag of yours, but I didn’t have that
when I built my bike so. And here he goes. By the way, you can get a
lot more power of your motor if you rewire and… I think it’s a wired in Y right now, you wire in Delta and you’ll
get like twice the power. – [Adam] Really? – It’s like a demon. Like that’s how you just
get incredible speeds out of that motor. If you want we’ll do it for you. – Classic. – And take the limits off the BMS. – Oh my gosh. – You want it or? If you want we’ll send
you an unlimited BMS, you know if you want. You got 25 hours on that bike, right? – Yeah. – Do you want more power or what? This one’s really cool, what is that? Right there. That is that next level. See that makes me think
everything’s changed, when we start seeing that available. Do you want more power in that bike or are you pretty good with it? – I’m pretty good. – Yeah, at some point just gets nuts. – [Adam] Yeah. – Don’t want to hurt yourself. You know there’s only so fast you’ll go on bicycle components. But here let’s see what
this greatest thing is. That’s like about the coolest
thing I’ve seen in a while. I used to do this thing called the 10 biggest E-bike
porn things there are. I listed things and Rohloff
was big and still is. I don’t think anything cooler than the Rohloff exists
for electric bikes, like imagine a whole 14
speed transmission with 570%. – It’s so well, you know it’s so robust. I’ve got over 15,000 miles on that left. – Mine too. I got one, I got the same and you know if you run
too much power through it, it has these plastic ears that break. – It’s got all shear pins. – You knew it. That was a big secret
of mine for a long time. Where the shear pins at? I bet you know where
they’re at, right there, right, the plastic on
the ends right there. – Yeah and so they can fix ’em, you know Cycle Monkey can pull it apart. – I bet Cycle Monkey can. They’re like– – [Adam] Fixed it. – That’s right and so can
you fix them is the question? – [Adam] The thing that
comes down to it is I don’t have the tools. – That’s right. So I asked Cycle Monkey, we used to buy all our Rohloffs from them, how much it is to replace
those gears, guess how much? – The plastic? – Yeah, how much they charged back then. – [Adam] I don’t know, 50 bucks? – 60 bucks. Oh my god! I go man why isn’t
everybody running a Rohloff. Oh, too expensive. – [Adam] It’s the high entry point. – Man, 500% reduction, 14 speeds, I’ve never heard of
anybody front roast it, well you won’t roast it,
you’ll just strip those gears. Yeah, sweet point. – [Adam] No, I love it. – All right man, well I think we covered just about everything. – Well how about your new bike,
that was a surprise, right? – Which one? – The Fixed. – Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got the Fixed bike. Yeah, that came together really nice. – Did it surprise you that a
low-powered bike was gonna– – I remember having a
lot of doubts about it. You know like you never know
if something’s gonna work or if it’s gonna go
off and I’d show people and we had a prototype around for a while, for three or four months while
we’re getting them built. – Chain drive though, right? – There’s chain drive and it
didn’t really do it for anybody and it was single speed. And I’ve never really thought
that speeds were needed in a mid drive, but in a
low power one it really is. Like most of us don’t
even worry about gears in our BBSHD around here the way we ride. We just have it in a
middle gear and we’re fine. Like some of them don’t even
bother with transmissions on our bikes at all
’cause BBSHD is so robust, but with this one at so low power and it’s torque sensor
really sucks in single speed so people ride the chain
one, it wasn’t inspiring. What got us all about
this one is how quiet, the minute we rode it
when we got the first ones and how quiet it was,
because it was my call to change everything and do belt-drive and do the internal gear hub in the back. and it just it made the bike. So I was nervous about
it while we’re waiting for them to get made and
then when we got the deal with Gates and we got this
incredible deal on CDX. That’s a whole CDX group
set, do you know about it? – [Adam] Yeah. – The belts held on, anyhow. – [Adam] It’s got that little ridge on it and higher quality. – Oh my god man, I wanted
to know why more people, I want to do everything in belts. You got to ride it, it’s
such a different feeling. You need to tell us about your belt drive you’re building real quick. – [Adam] Yeah, so on my
aluminum cruiser pub runner, it’s a 2000 Schwinn Panther, they came out with this
really cool aluminum frame for two years so that’s
7000 series aluminum with mountain bike geometry, but in a really cool cantilever style. – [Eric] Oh is this it? This is the one you’re gonna cut? – Yeah, I’ve already cut it. – [Eric] No way, are you
keeping the front hub motor? – Yeah, I’m just putting belt drive on it. – [Eric] Use that as an internal gear hub. I mean use that as I’m sorry, it’s a regenerative breaker. Wouldn’t that be cool? – Yeah. – [Eric] I’ve been thinking about that. So you’re cutting the frame. – So I cut the frame. – [Eric] You got pictures of that? – I’ve got a picture
of the seat stick cut. I gapped it and now I’m gonna, I’m getting a couple of aluminum pieces that’ll slide into the seat tube. – Listen to this guys. So it’s really difficult
to weld aluminum, right? That’s a problem everybody has because not only is it difficult to weld, it kind of melts, but then
you have to heat treat it. – Right. – And you can’t do that
without doing one piece. I don’t know, do you know what temperature you got a heat treat at, like some ridiculous amount, right? So instead of doing this
he’s chopping his frame and he’s gluing it back together. – [Adam] So yeah, I’m gonna
machine a couple of aluminum, you know it’s basically a tube splitter. Paragon machine works
make some really nice ones out of titanium and things. – Oh, you can buy something and make this. – [Adam] You can, they make them, but I’m just making mine myself. I’ve got some 19 millimeter– – Oh, I’ve got to see this. Like that’s a whole new thing for me. – So it’ll be cool and
then those will bond, they’ll slide into the seat tube or the yeah, the seat
stays down by the axle on each end of the cut, they’ll slide into a shoulder and stop and I’ll use 3M DP420. – I love DP420, I love 3M to being with. We use DP100 all the time. – [Adam] That stuff’s amazing. – Well I haven’t tried 420 yet, but I love they named a product 420. like what’s that about? – Exactly. – Is it four times as strong as the one, the DP100’s like 50 bucks a tube and we use it for a lot. We used to do the side plates
before we figured out riveting because it’s kind of
chintzy to to glue it, but man that stuff would
whenever we need a glue solution we’re always running to DP100. – So I use the DP420 on my battery box, because I needed– – There it is, what is
it different about it? Bonds stainless steel
shaft to golf club head. (laughing) – [Adam] Yeah, they use
it in the golf industry, so I mean it’s got, it’s got
a really high shear strength. – Wow. – [Adam] This is what
specialized uses to– – Glue together their bikes? – Their bottom bracket, that pressed bottom bracket sometimes on some of the models they use this so if you get a replacement they’ll send you a little
pack of this and so yeah. – [Eric] Wait, where do
they use it at on their? – For a while they made a bottom bracket that was like a pressed fish shell and I think when they were
doing bottom bracket replace, like if you had a warranty– – You could literally take
your bottom bracket off? – Not the, the inside
of the bottom bracket. – Oh, just the shell. – Yeah, the inner shell. – How would you get that shell off of if it had that stuff in it? – I don’t know, I don’t know what it was, but I was reading it came
up on a couple of threads when I was reading about the 420 because I was trying to make sure I got the gap line right so the space– – You really might be
on to something here. This might be the new welding. Wouldn’t it be cool you could just put together your bike with that? – That’d be, you know, plug fit. – Have you seen Calfee’s bikes? Show him Calfee, Craig Calfee’s bike. Calfee, C-F-E-E wooden bikes. You got to do a bike out of wood and he uses just I like casting tape like for broken arms and stuff. You got you got to promise
me you’ll try a wooden bike. It’s your calling. – Look at that. – Dude, if you see one in real life, they’re so beautiful. – [Adam] It looks like Fred
Flintstone a little bit. – Yeah. – [Adam] That’s cool. – You should be doing this. You should build frames for us and we’ll sell them as
fast as you can build them. – [Adam] Oh my gosh. – We could sell these for big money. Yeah, but look at, those
are all wooden frames. He does, I don’t know if those are. He does a lot of
carbon-fiber work as well. – Got it, there it is. – He’s known for his wood stuff. They’re strong as heck
and wood is just perfect and it has a little flex. It does great in the elements. Varnish it once every couple of years, it’s as good as new. – [Adam] That’s pretty cool. – Look at that, that’s just casting. Man. – [Adam] That’s bamboo on the seat too. – I want one so bad, can
you please build us this? (Adam laughing) – [Adam] Right. – Wow, wow. – [Adam] That’s eye candy. – How did he do this, let’s go back. – [Adam] He did a bolt for the seat stay right into the drop out. – There you go right there. – [Adam] Mm-hmm, so you just
unbolt it and flex it out. – Think so? – [Adam] Yeah. – Wow, that is just beauty. – [Adam] That’s a cool head too. – Man, I just want that whole bike now. – [Adam] That is pretty cool. – Yeah, come on man. will you build us a, next project. – We’ll see. I’d be careful what
direction I send you in with my next project. – All right you guys, I
guess we covered everything. How long have we been going? But thanks everyone and
thanks to Adam for coming down and visiting with us and talking with us. It’s been fun. Happy Memorial Day and Memorial Day is the
beginning of summer. – Right. Right, so let’s have a fantastic summer and God bless you with your pain and I hope that pain just some day just… slowly go away you think or is it? – They say probably not,
but I’ll take what I got. – Let’s go talk to Luke. I heard Luke has some
serious pain killers. (laughing) – He has whole theories
on how to deal with pain and I’ll share one with you and for anybody else living in pain and it’s how I try to
deal whenever I’m upset, that nobody in life can put a
negative thought in your mind and they only you, no matter
how much pain or suffering or where you’re at, if you
can just control your thoughts then you can somehow control
any situation you end up in. – There’s a lot to that. – It’s kind of Buddhist or whatever, but I think back on it a lot and I hope it helps you a bit. He also has really good painkillers so it’s not like he
just gets high on life. (laughing) – Thanks for the invite. Thanks for Sunday gonna
Luna Jet down to pick me up. (laughing) That was pretty trick. – Yeah, next time we got to
put your bike in the back. – There you go, – Yeah let’s go out and
have some Korean food and I’ll show you the rest of
the shop and have some fun. – All right, cool. Thanks, thanks guys. – Signing out. All right, that was awesome. – [Adam] That was fun. – [Eric] How long was that? – [Woman] An hour 30. – [Eric] Oh my god. We only went 30 minutes over. Man, I’m glad we did that ’cause dude, that bike is inspiring. – [Adam] That’s pretty cool. – [Eric] Dude, you gotta do that. You could build those and
I could buy them from you for 1000 bucks each, 1500 bucks each. – [Man] Think of the warranty work. Termites, I got termites on my bike. – [Eric] No, we don’t do
warranties, haven’t you heard? (laughing) ’cause I just don’t want to tell people, we take care of people but I just don’t– – [Man] You just don’t wanna be that. – [Eric] Arguing with people. Or telling them buy another
warranty because of that.

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