Bill Nye Explains How We Can Actually Get to Mars – Klepper Podcast

Bill Nye Explains How We Can Actually Get to Mars – Klepper Podcast


– [Jordan] All right, guys, her. – Thank you. See, it feels like you’re takin. – Yeah. – [Man] We’re picking up some s. We’re headed towards three Gs. – [Alyssa] Oh my goodness. (laughter) (Jordan groans) (Jordan whining) – The sound you are hearing
is me stuck to the inside of a human centrifuge as
part of astronaut training, and I’m sitting next to a 17-yel who spent her life trying to ge. I’ve spent a lot of my life
trying to get to space camp, and I’m actually here in this m. Here’s what they don’t tell you. Three Gs feels like shit,
and when you turn your head, it’s as if three people
sat on top of your head. (Jordan groans) This is what astronauts
would have to go through, or what children who get to
go to space camp go through, or what I’m going through
in that exact same moment. But I will come clean
with you, I love space, and then, I found somebody elsed that exact same passion,
and it happened to be the president of the United Sta. Donald Trump loves space. It might be the only thing
we both see eye to eye on that space is cool and that
going to Mars might be fun. This was a little bit conflicti, but I do think there’s somethinl about dreaming big and
as Americans trying to achieve that dream. So, this episode was me
trying to look at that idea. Can we make American space grea? Asterisk, the asterisk’s
all the things I don’t agree with Donald Trump on. Today, on the podcast, to talk e and man’s need to explore,
we’ve got Bill Nye, but first, come with me as
I tell you about my journey making America space again. This is Klepper. Space, the final frontier and a place America has
always come in first. This year the Chinese were
the first to ever land a probe on the far side of the moon. Next, they’re planning to
build a permanent lunar base and a manned mission to Mars. Meanwhile, what is America doin? They’re handing over our rockets to a bunch of zany billionaires. I don’t like it. I prefer my American icons to
humble, government employees, with flags on their sleeves,
earning minimum wage. I am on a mission to see if space can make
America great again. Asterisk, and if it can,
what will it look like? I’m here with producer, Lucy Le, and I’m here with writer, Russ . – Hello.
– Hi. – Hey guys. – Hey. – Let’s talk space, shall we? I’m a bit of a space nerd. – You are obnoxious about space. – Thank you. – Not a compliment. – Well, I’m taking it as such. – Well, I’ll take it back. – I’m still keeping it in the e. (laughter) – I feel like between First Man, I think you recently reread
The Right Stuff that Tom Wolfe, and then, watched limited
release documentary that I don’t know anyone
else who had seen it. I don’t know how you found it. – Apollo 11. – Apollo 11, it was a documenta, and it was built entirely
from archival footage. – It’s amazing, yep, and
they released it at IMAX for a week, and I believe
they’re re-releasing it when on the 50th anniversary
of Apollo 11, the moon mission. – Which is this year, 2019,
which is very exciting. This is all to say you are
an incredible space nerd and would constantly walk
into the office in the morning just before anyone had asked
you anything or any business has gotten done, you would
just immediately begin rambling about a lunar lander, and
how incredible it was, and the exceptionalism, and
the amount of guts that it took to just get inside these tin
cans and fire yourself up to the moon, and how many
people just died in pursuit of this incredible goal,
and then, I think eventually we were like we gotta channel
this energy into something. Let’s let him do a space episod. (laughter) But it’s cool. That was a little bit of the or. – I loved space so much as a ki. I went to Cape Canaveral. We went to D.C. and Florida
were the only two places we went to as a kid for vacatio. – And, you would drive
there from Michigan? – Oh yes, and– – That’s, to drive to Cape
Canaveral from Michigan, whether it was Cape Canaveral
or just a parking lot, the buildup of that as a
child must’ve been like (laughter) yes, of course, I’m gonna fall e with this parking lot. We’ve been in a station wagon fs from Kalamazoo, Michigan. – It’s all about the preamble. Yeah, let’s just build to it. So, I loved Cape Canaveral. I loved space. We talked about this in the
episode, but it was in 2019 there are so many things
that are depressing. (laughter) There’s so many things that feee they break your spirit, and
I think it was a reconnection with that sense of wonder that e oh, I’m hearing stories of like
grandeur and accomplishment that are beyond imagination. I was like oh, and if I can boin to 22 minute television, I think I will have landed on t. (laughter) – This 22 minutes of cable
was your moon landing. – Exactly! I think so.
– [Russ] Yes. – Lucy, how’d you feel? This, were you as gung-ho
as I was to begin with? – No. (laughter) – Shame. – I was like oh, let’s do
some stuff about equality, and politics, and but then–
– Okay, now, to be fair, – We have have eight episodes. (laughter) – We have eight episodes.
– No, I know. – We have eight episodes, and we have dealt with
a lot of big issues. – We have, and then, I was like
space is the biggest issue, right, in size. – It’s actually not an issue. There are no issues in space. Just wanna be clear. – In space, nobody will hear yo. – [Russ] Yes, exactly. – I quickly got on the nerd tra, once we started talking. I have not read The Right Stuff. I’ve heard you talk about readi. I feel like I– – You absorbed it, yes. – You know, by extension,
absorbed it, yeah. Felt good about it. – You’re like an audio book
that no one hit play on. (laughter) – Again, thank you. – But I like the idea of comingy where we could be like oh,
here’s something patriotic that we can all get behind no m, what party you’re in, no
matter what you believe in, like oh, this is something
that’s really cool, and pushing boundaries, and
going further, and extending, and real science, right? – Yeah.
(laughter) – Bringing that back in. – Yeah, well, I think it was fu, as we started talking about thi, we found that the president
he started Space Force, but also, what was
coming out was this story that he actually wanted to
fund NASA to get to Mars by the end of his term, which i- – He wanted to give a
bottomless pit of money to NASA to go to Mars. – Yes, which– – Which is just amazing
to think of the way this man’s mind works where
he’s like you know what? If I can get to Mars, nobody ca. (laughter) And, he’s probably. If he can be like okay,
I started a race ware, but also, who up on the red thi? We up on the red thing now. What are you gonna say? I’d be like all right,
man, I’ll vote for you. – Yeah, all right, you got us t. That’s the Mars guy. – [Russ] Yeah, that’s the Mars . (laughter) – It felt like a funny alignmene oh, man, this guy he
might stumble on something that actually a lot of
people might get behind, could actually have scientific . If you point a guy and
his ego towards something that might have a fallout
that helps other people on the way, oh my god. Make America great again with c. So, you have to take it all int. – Fuck that (mumbles) – I know, but did you
read the whole shirt? – No, I’m not with that. Don’t hate. – No, let me clarify the shirt. You see, there’s the asterisk. While I believe space exploratin can make America great again, I do not endorse the president’s
views on the following: race, economic policy,
religion, science, history, education, basic math,
trade, foreign affairs, domestic affairs, common decenc, validity of the 2016 popular el. I’m not. I’m not. – [Woman] Excuse me. – I’m talking about, it’s
just the space thing. I want a saying for space. It’s the rest of the stuff that. Well, have a good day. I feel like an asshole. I feel like an asshole. – It’s the perfect storm for tht where if you look back
at the Apollo program, there was a lot of people
who would say it’s crazy. You would have to be crazy
to think that you could do this incredible accomplishment. While everyone on the
left is trying to study every bit of his expressions,
be like well, technically, I think he is crazy. Then, you might say well,
then, he’s perfectly qualified to get us to Mars. (laughter) This is how we got to the moon. – It might be a crazy idea, rig, but it might be so crazy it wor. – Yeah. – So, I think we, so we wanted
to do something around this, and I think you started
looking for a story. What was a way in? – I was told that people
had been reaching out to a Mars habitat in Utah,
which is a part of Utah that I’d actually been to
before for another shoot. – Really? – Yes, I went treasure hunting , and it was the worst
place I had ever been. Trust me, you would not have
wanted to go to this part of Utah at all. There is no cell service for ho. It’s in the middle of nothing n. It was not a good time when I w. (laughter) – And, this was where a Mars ha? – Yes. – ‘Cause we were at that point r what feels like the
big story of right now. We’re hearing stories
of Elon Musk, of Bezos investing in this idea
of can we get to Mars? Trump is talking about it. Where do we– – Who’s working on this? Yeah. – Who’s working on it, and what can we show so
it’s not just in theory? – And, it’s cool. It definitely looks cool,
but it’s so much cooler if you could go do that in Hawa. (laughter) – From a producer’s perspective,
you’re often looking at what is this story, but
also, where is the story? – Where is it when we’re
filming in February? – Yes, and at that point, this
is at the end of our filming where we’re all kind of
like oh, a Hawaii story? I’m listening, great. – Yeah. – About space? I get to talk to an
astronaut, go to Hawaii? – Yeah! – This feels like the story to . (laughter) – So, I had found this others Mt on the site of an active volcani that is owned by an eccentric ry who wants to create life on oths like every other rich guy actua. – The rich guys are leading thee or in conjunction with
NASA, but you see Musk, you see Bezos, you see Branson. They all have their own
private space program. They’re funding this idea. Potentially going to Mars. Potentially going to the moon. So, we were looking at this, and Hank Rogers is a
fascinating character. – [Lucy] Yeah. – [Jordan] Not only is he– – He’s actually I think the world’s most interesting ma. – [Jordan] He could be. – [Lucy] Yeah. – He made his money
bringing Tetris to America. – He did the first I think
intellectual property deal with the U.S.S.R. ever and
brought Tetris to America, still owns the name Tetris, and that was just the
first fortune he made. – Right, he used that
to continue to invest, to make fortunes elsewhere. – [Lucy] Yes. – He was in the video game worl. He’s expanded. Now, he’s in the clean
energy game as well, and this episode didn’t get
to talk a lot about this, but he spent, he gave us a goody showing us around, and he is
working on a lot of things. Attempting to get Hawaii to go , investing in a lot of technologs so he’s doing a lot of interest. – To finally get coal
spewing Hawaii to go green. (laughter) – Oh yeah, think a little
about nature, Hawaii. (laughter) – West Virginia and Hawaii. – So, he lives there partially
because it’s beautiful, but there’s also essentially a t that is on the side of a volcano
that is incredibly remote that is arguably as close
to what it would feel like to land on Mars as you
can find on the planet, and they’ve been running for ye. It was owned by NASA, and then,? – He owns it. – He owns it now. – I figured out my missions in . First one is end the use
of carbon-based fuel. Mission number two is to end wa, and space is the third mission, and it’s to make a
backup of life on Earth. – I love that number two
on that list is end war. When you say make a backup,
what does that mean? – It means get life started some in a way that it’s self-sustain. I’m in the computer
game business, or I was. You make backups. 65 million years ago
the dinosaurs went away. Why? Because they were too
stupid to make a backup. – You’re blaming dinosaurs
for not downloading their entire existence
onto a little hard drive and savin’ it? – I’m saying that we are
as dumb as the dinosaurs if we don’t make a backup. – You got Bezos. You got Musk. You got Branson. They’re all working on somethin. What do you got goin’ on? – Yes, all these guys are
working on building airplanes, and I’m working on building air. That’s the way I look at it. You can’t have an airplane
without an airport. – [Jordan] Musk is
buildin’ that big plane. You’re like– – I’m saying I’m gonna
build you the landing pad. – This is your big dream to
build a LaGuardia in the sky? I mean, how much is a
bottle of water gonna cost? (Hank laughs) We were sort of delving into thf do you have to be a little craz? And, there’s also a privilege i. Do you have to have that much
money where you can be like I can do anything. I say this, and it is done, and you say that, and there’s
an entire team behind you that is like all right, now,
we have to make this happen, but is that the kind of
crazy that gets you to space and gets you to the moon
or to create a habitat? Maybe. – Yeah.
– Yeah. – Can I ask you guys a question? – Yeah. – Based on the fact that there
was a Mars simulation colony in Utah and on the top
of a volcano in Hawaii, how much of the qualifications
for a Mars simulation space do you think just has to do witt that the rocks need to be red? (laughter) I feel like it’s nearly 90%. I feel that’s all they’re looki. – [Lucy] I would say
90 to 93%, definitely. – ‘Cause they’re like well, why is this a perfect sim? They’re like I don’t know, man,. – [Jordan] Red rocks? – There’s red rocks,
and when we get to Mars, they’re gonna freak out if
they’re like oh, red rocks! (laughter) We haven’t trained for this! (laughter) Holy moly! What is this? I’m going space crazy! I’m taking off my helmet, ah! – I wanna go back home! – My eyes are popping out. – They need to train under
the correct conditions of red rocks! – I’m like a dumb bull in space! (laughter) I saw red! I’m going crazy! – So much of it is playing
pretend is what we realized. – [Lucy] Yes. – Where you’re like even
we were in this habitat, and you put on a mask,
you go through this, you have to make sure you close
this door, open that door, you have a time, and you’re doi, and you’re, I would get
chided for leaving doors open and what have you, which I get, but also, there’s a part where e are we, we’re just
playing pretend up here? – [Lucy] Yeah. – And, I know you are incredibl, you are an incredible scientist, and you are thinking about
the future of humanity, but it doesn’t fuckin’
matter if our camera guy leaves the door open ’cause
he needs to get this shot. He’s gonna be fine because
we’re on Hawaii not on Mars. – Ready to go to the surface of? – Yeah, why not? – [Michaela] Okay, do
you wanna do the honors? – Is it locked or? – [Michaela] Now, unlock it, ye. All right. – [Jordan] Ladies first. – [Michaela] Thank you. Don’t forget to close the airlo. – I’m sorry, my bad. We gotta close the airlock door. Everybody’s dead! – Do you wanna introduce Michae? I feel like she was– – Michaela Musilova, she’s
the mission commander at the habitat. It’s called HI-SEAS. – HI-SEAS. – And, she is an astrobiologist. So, she, her ultimate
goal, I guess, is to go, and explore, and find
life on other planets, and she’s been with Hank for a . She was actually supposed
to be in a year-long mission at the habitat, and there
was an accident there. – On like day two, right? – Yeah, and they canceled
the whole year-long mission. – Which that’s tough. – I know. – That’s like a cruise ship,
and somebody ruins the bathroom right in port. – [Jordan] It’s right up,
it’s before you get off. – Yeah, you’re still
waving to people on shore, and the bathroom is destroyed, and then, you have to get towed. – [Jordan] Yeah, it’s– – And, sue Carnival. (laughter) – Well, I guess she kinda stuck. – She did. She was like I had a year
blocked off in my schedule, and okay, well? (laughter) Well, I’ll focus on the next on. – And, so, they’ve been
in the process of kinda making it a Mars and moon
habitat, which I’m still a little unclear on how those, I don’t know if they have
to paint all the rocks? – The rocks are the wrong color. – Well, that is the funny thing ’cause it was mostly Mars focus. – Yeah. – And, what you are testing is . It’s a facility that’s
essentially gonna lock you away for a long period of time
and has functionality that can simulate Mars or the m, and there was a mission control
that you communicate to, and I think part of the things t between Mars and moon is
quite literally how often you have to wait in
between communications. – That’s hilarious that
they’re seeing if human beings in 2019 can wait up to 15
minutes to receive a text back. It’s just gonna be dot
dot dot until a planet circles around the sun, and
you’re like (groans) oh no! Please, what’s the answer? Or, what are we getting for din? (laughter) – Yeah, the cheaper simulation s sitting in front of a computer
with the pinwheel goes, and it’s like is that guy gonna? Eight months of this? It’s like ah, I got dial-up! Oh no, I got dial-up, I can’t h! I’m gonna eat you! I’m gonna eat that person! – I gotta eat him!
(laughter) Why is your first resort cannib? – Yeah. – We have plenty of food! (laughter) – We test important things like. – [Lucy] Yeah, yep. – So, at the very beginning, most people don’t know
each other that well. I mean, you will go
through training together, but there might not be really
time to just sit around, chat, and you can’t exactly do it
over beers here unfortunately. – There’s no alcohol? – No alcohol, no drugs of
any sort of are allowed. You know games are always fun. Different types of ice
breakers or something. – Games without alcohol? – One thing we did was we
organized culture nights. A different person would
present their country, their traditions, things like t- – You wanna trap them into frie. – Encourage them into
friendship, not trap them. – Well, whatever you wanna call. We were looking not
only at what would take to actually get to Mars? And, I think there’s the
incredible achievements of engineering that it would
take, a country coming together to like can you scientifically
get there, but that was, we wanted to also look at
what would it take for a human to actually be the person
who would go there? And, The Right Stuff was
a really interesting story in a sense that the Apollo
missions, up and to that point, they were taking fighter pilots. These were pilots. If you can fly an F14, you
can, you’re gonna pilot this giant ship. – No, I remember the last
time you told me that. – Let me tell you a little bit . So, what’s fascinating is at th, they didn’t see themselves as p. They were actually, they saw ths as trained monkeys essentially, and so, it was something where e are we really using pilots out ? Are we just sending these,
is there honor in just being a person who’s in a tin can? And, then, that began to evolve, and you’re bringing scientists, you’re bringing other types of e so what does it take to? Do you need a military person? Or do you need a person who’s
just like really good at talking to people? – Right, and the question
that is asked historically is do you have the correct attr? – Right stuff, it’s the right s. (laughter)
– Yeah. – Yeah, historically, people ask do you have the right stuff?
– Do you have the absolute correct attributes? – No, this is, I gave you
the book to read, Russ. I really think you should
just take a look at it. – Jordan, you are six one? – Oh yeah. – Four. – [Lucy] Six four? – Four one? – Six (laughter) six four. (laughter) – So, Jordan is a tall person. Me and Lucy are about six feet. – Yeah. – And, you, I thought this
was sorta the tragic element of this entire episode for
all your childhood dreams. I think you are DQed from
ever being an astronaut by the age of 11. – Yeah, I became– – You grew out of astronauthood. – I grew out of astronaut
into can he play in the ABA? And, then I–
(laughter) That’s what happens. It’s like you’re astronaut and , and then, no, I don’t have
the skillset for either, which I felt, you take also tha, and we went to space camp, and space camp has a few simula. – Space camp has got, I always
wanted to go to space camp. I always wanted to go to space , and it’s an amazing complex. They have a three G simulator. They have a gyroscope. – Both of which made
for much shorter people. – Yes, made for not only
small astronauts but children, and so, to be quite, I
didn’t fit or do well in any of those simulation. – When we put you in the
gyroscope actually the first ti, you were way too tall to fit
in it, and they were like is this safe? And, they were like just
slouch a little, just slouch. – Yeah, they literally
said just slouch a little. Like this is like wait, what? Just slouch a little? And, then, they whip your body . – And, I was like oh god,
he’s gonna break his beck. Oh my god.
– [Jordan] Oh my god. – Or throw up. – Yes, and lower back issues. It does not feel good. – The centrifuge simulates the t that a fighter pilot or an
astronaut may experience during flight, and it
can reach up to 3.2 Gs. That’s three times your body we. – So, it’s like if I had
three clones bullying me and sitting on top of me at onc. – Basically. – See, it feels like you’re tak. – Yeah. – [Man] We’re pickin’ up some s. We’re headed towards three Gs. – [Alyssa] Whoa. Oh my goodness. (laughs) (Jordan groans) (Jordan whines) – I tried to play it cool. It was not the best
interview I’ve ever done. What are some of the personal is you’ll have to deal with
with extended space flight? I felt like I was choking
down vomit most of the time during that interview,
which is a unique sensation. I mean, I’ve had that a
few times talking to folks from the NRA, but that was
for totally different reasons. There big fix is like oh, I
know exactly what you need. You should chew on some mints, and so, they give me a
bunch of mints to chew on, and then, you were like
well, maybe sit in the car, and I literally go to the
car, and I just lie down in the car and eat mints for 45s until we have to go film again. – Until your heartburn kicks up. (laughter) – But, the second thing,
they put you on the gyroscope was not supposed to make you na. – Yes. – They said it was just
supposed to disorient you? – Yeah. – That seems like a very
very classy distinction. (laughter)
– [Jordan] Yes. – Oh no no no no, you
won’t be nauseous at all. You’ll just be completely disor. – Yeah, and this is a
place where children go, which I’m like what are
we doing to our children? – There were kids, like 150
kids screaming in the next room, who’d all, ostensibly
just done this thing. – Well, I don’t know
if that’s exactly true. What I was doing, I
think was more advanced. – Children had achieved it, yea. – No, when I was there
the day before scouting, there was like 25 eight-year ol. – But then they turned
on the adult settings for when I did it, and that
was the experience that I had. – Mm-hmm. – The adult experience of going. – Which I think is a
dampener on that machine. – Yeah yeah.
– No, I think no. I did exactly what John Glenn d. (laughter)
That’s exactly what I did. I almost did throw up. I was with Alyssa, and
Alyssa is incredible. She’s 17 right now. – 17. – She’s been training to be
an astronaut since she was? – She wanted to be an
astronaut since she was three. – [Jordan] Three.
– Yeah. – And, quite literally,
she’s been to space camp numerous times, has flown all
over the world to accumulate the type of resume that
could make her an astronaut. You wanna go to Mars? – Pretty much, yeah, Mars
is the ultimate goal. – You’ve already thought all th. – Yeah, I got it all laid
out, when I’m gonna do what. So, gained scuba certification. I’m also working on my pilot’s e to get some flight experience. Micro-gravity training, space
suit training, water survival, decompression, G force,
geology training in Iceland. I can speak four languages, English, French, Spanish, and C. I have my Applied Astronomics d. So, that was basically a certifn for suborbital space flight. – You’re certified for
sub-orbital space flight? – Correct. – I didn’t even know you needed
a passport to go to Italy. Wow.
– It’s kind of important. – She’s qualified for sub-orbit? – Exactly, which that’s a qualin I didn’t know you could
get, let alone at 17. – I don’t know what
that is on your license. I’m an organ donor?
– I know. I still don’t have the
guts to be an organ donor. (laughter) I’m like I don’t know. – Didn’t we learn that you
have to get your kidneys taken out or something if you’ro on a long space voyage? – It’s– – Tonsils and gallbladder. – And, then, a little lift. – Yeah. – Just slightly. – The no gravity gives you a
little bit of that too, so. – Well, that is the idea. It’s the idea if you go on a Ma, which could be a three
year round trip situation, you have to minimize any
potential health risks because what are you gonna do? And, so, things like that, it’s, if you could just lose your gal, then, we’re not gonna have
any gallbladder problems a month and a half in, and I kn, there was talk that she
was considering that. – Yeah. – Either way, that’s far and aw- – She said she would
if approached to, yeah. – First of all, if you’re
listening right now and you are approached
by someone who asks you to remove your gallbladder,
get a second opinion. – Yeah, make sure you see a really official-looking
NASA patch on them– – But you don’t need it? – Before you schedule an appoin. – I would even go one step furt. – Just the patch is good enough. Jordan, if you, ’cause
you would have to amputate or take off parts of your
body that could potentially go south while in space,
you have a foot problem. I think you might be the
first peg-leg astronaut. You would have to take
that foot off for sure. – And, I 100% would. As loyal listeners of this
podcast and or viewers of any of the things
I’ve done on television, you probably know that I have ws and I have brittle feet. – Peanut brittle feet I’m think. Shatter pretty quickly
but good on the holidays. (laughter) – I think, Russ, it was you
that said maybe my desire to get into space was just
to take a little pressure off my foot, and I don’t
think it’s totally wrong. (laughter) – But you did like being in theg when we were at space camp,
and you had no pressure on your feet. You were very happy about that. – There’s a sling portion, whic, when you feel like you’re playi, and you’re in a sling with
a 17-year old at space camp, you’re just hanging above it. You’re like is this, am I
telling an important story, or am I just in a sling right n? (laughter) The answer’s an important story. It’s still an important story. – So, the sling and not
the sparkly space suit was what made you question ever? – I am remembering I was
in a sparkly space suit at that point. At that point, you’re doing a cw when your costume designer’s lie do you want a David
Bowie-type Starman outfit, and you’re like yeah! – No, that came from you. – Oh, that’s not how I,
I don’t remember that. – Yeah, you were like Bowie? Everybody loves Bowie. I wanna dress up as Bowie! I wanna do the makeup! And, I was like well, we
don’t have any makeup. I wanna do the makeup! (laughter) – I thought artistically, it’d be right if we
were going to go Bowie, we’re going Ziggy Stardust,
you have to do the makeup. – No, I know because I
tried to get you to ditch it a few times.
– You did. Do you get the reference? – Like space man? Is that a thing? – I’d say more Starman. If you’re gonna see if
there’s life on Mars, I think this is the way to do i. You see this childish
excitement about science, and we go to space
camp, and we see people, and we see Alyssa, who is
inspiring about how much she cas about actually doing something , and I think that was really fun. Seeing Hank who is a character . You see dreamers. Essentially what we were
watching is a bunch of dreamers in Hawaii, a bunch of dreamers
who all think kind of this big impossible dream, and I think when you’re down
in Houston at space camp, and we also, that’s when
we met Scott Kelly as well, you see that that dream is not f as you might think. You’re literally watching space, you’re walking underneath rocke, and I think it feels both
ludicrous and remarkably tangibe at the same time. – I think that’s actually how
I felt about Hank overall. Just, I feel like he really
switched in between being like really crazy and out there
and then also kind of legit? – Yeah. – A theme that underlayed the e, maybe it doesn’t surface in the
cut, but I think it’s there. Part of the breath of fresh
air that looking at something like space was, and there’s a
scene where Alyssa describes sort of her plan. She’s 17. She says I’m gonna be an
astronaut when I’m around 30, 3, and she had sort of given this
long drawn-out step-by-step incremental building of
here’s how I’m going to get from where I am now to
where I wanna be over years, and I think we had all had
various different conversations about this piece throughout. About we live in a time
very much where it’s like what happened this second. How can I respond to that and
kill that thing this second? How can I amplify this thing th? And, there’s not a lot of
long-term thinking at all, and to see people,
whether they’re scientists or whether they’re
17-year old pre-astronauts thinking all the way this far ie to do something great feels
like such a breath of fresh air like someone opened up a
window, and you’re like oh, right, if we can step
out of these important but sometimes almost intractabl, we can find some other avenues
where we can really dream big and really go for something
and do something impressive together, all on a grand
scale that doesn’t have to be just as small as a Tweet
or as small as a sound byte or as small as some little cult. – Yeah, I mean, I think it is f. It feels so novel this idea
of preplanning in a way. It feels so remarkably
refreshing to be like oh, you have a 10 year plan, and that was a lot of
the discussions we had– – This is when we fell in love . (laughter)
– I know, exactly. Oh my lord! Not to go on another tangent he, but we talked about
that book The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis which talks a
lot about American intuitions and how there isn’t a lot of
forward plannIng, or at least, specifically with this administ. That like things like
the state department, smaller departments,
they’re behemoths to move, but you have to think 10 years . – Right. – If you don’t, things
fall through the cracks, and people die. We don’t validate long-term
thinkers right now. We live such in the moment. I think this was an example
to hear those stories and to get day drunk with an as. – That was the best part. – And, this is Kelly when
you guys were in Houston? – Yes. – Yeah, this astronaut Scott Key who spent over 500 days in orbi. One of the longest ever
for an American astronaut. So much so because he
does have a twin brother, Mark Kelly who’s running
for senate in Arizona, he stayed home. He’s also an astronaut, but because they are identical , they were testing the effects
of zero gravity on a body, and I believe his DNA
did officially change. He became a science
experiment, a different person because he was in space for a f. We were in Houston. We wanted to talk to an astronat about his first-hand experience, and yeah, and you called him up. – I called him up, and we
could’ve gone to this museum, but I knew it was gonna be
overrun by children all day, and I was like oh, well,
we could go to a bar? And, I was like I hope
he would say yes to that, and then, I called him,
and he was like oh yeah. There’s an astronaut bar
literally up the street. (laughter) It’s where all the astronauts h. It’s called Boondoggles. (laughter) I was like Boondoggles, all rig. – I love that there’s an astron. – Yeah. – Oh, it’s in your dreams, righ? – [Lucy] Yeah. – In The Right Stuff, there is r that a lot of them go to. It is true, all right? It’s a famous bar. It’s no longer there. Anyway, Boondoggles is the one . – Oh, the other one burnt down. – It did. Their other one burnt down. I mean, what’s so funny with ev, it’s like you expect, I’m like what is this astronaut
bar gonna look like? It’s gonna be rough and tumble. There’s gonna be old
astronauts in the corner with five o’clock shadows. With old war stories.
– It’s gonna be like (mumbles) – Yeah.
– Yeah. (laugher) – And, in the end, it’s
like a fun Irish bar. – It was in an alley though in . It wasn’t something you would s. There was a river behind it
or a like a little jetty. – It was very pretty in the bac. It’s by Johnson Space Center es, and so, like anything. – But you kind of have to
know where it is I think to know where to go. It’s not– – But I think functionally, the
reason it’s an astronaut bar is because that it’s close
to Johnson Space Center, which is what I think for
everybody when you dream, when you’re like what is the pl? It’s like oh, it’s the
easiest place to get booze. (laughter) And, Johnson Space Center’s in , but it’s so not in Houston. – No.
– Yeah. – But he was like this is where, and actually, a lot of
people from NASA go, and we sit down, and we order a. – Yes, which is a very
high percentage IPA. – Yeah, and it’s 11 AM.
(laughter) – [Lucy] It is. – It’s fuckin’ breakfast. (laughter) These guys are three
beers in at breakfast. – Like an 8% IPA. – Well, Scott’s a, he’s an IPA . He likes it hoppy. I like it hoppy as well. I’ve always dreamed of being an. I wanna be inspired by the
grandeur of space travel and also get day drunk with a s. Thank you. – Spacedust number two. – That’s right. – Hoppy enough for ya? – It’s hoppy, I like it. – Yeah. – What is American
exceptionalism mean to you in light of our space program? – Well, I think having a
space program that is robust, a space program that is visible
to the world and the public is part of the American brand. I think if we don’t maintain
it, it would be a disaster of a mistake because of
how the world looks up to this country. When China lands something
on the far side of the moon, that makes us sit back and
think hey, should we doing just a little bit more? Maybe. – Here’s the funny addendum to . I felt pretty cool. Honestly, I love, getting
to sit down and have beers with an astronaut made me
feel very cool, very virile, very on top of the world,
like a guy that I came home the next day and I bragged
about this what I do. I day drink with astronauts
because I’m a man, and then, my foot hurt the next, and I went to the podiatrist,
and he told me I have gout. – Oh.
(laughter) – Space gout! – But there with, honestly, it , we’re drinking, and I
think what we wanted to, honestly, with this show,
I think wherever it can be experiential, and I think
the focus of this was like we don’t wanna just have
a classic interview. Let’s talk and let’s make it ca, and I think Scott is wonderful, and I had such a unique experie, but something that I totally
got out of that interview and loved about it is sitting dn and having somebody tell
you what that experience of being in space step-by-step . I think we read a lot about a td the overview effect, which
is this idea that if you go to space and you look back upon, it does change your frame of mid and your frame of reference, and there’ve been known effectsf literally people seeing the
planet as fragile and small can effect things like
the way in which we treat the climate, and there has been,
Earth Day came out of that, and green deals have come out
of the fact that the Earth has been something that
people can tangibly see, but to hear an astronaut talk
about what that experience is like to step out, and I
found myself turning into a kid again. Even watching the tape
of it as we come back, there is nothing more engaging . – Also, his kind of curmudgeonly
side on top of that. He wasn’t it was majestic. – [Jordan] Right. – He was like yeah, it was hard
to open that freakin’ hatch, and then, when I got
out there, I looked up, it was amazing, and then, I
just went and did my work. – He gave as much time
to answering my questions about the beauty of Earth as
he did to how difficult it is to defecate in space. – Yes, there was a lot of that. – Yeah, so, there’s–
(laughter) – Too much, Lucy? – No, no, I was more interested
in the peeing in space to be honest, yeah. – It does ask bigger questions. – He told us about peeing upsid. – Yeah. – In space, yeah, and being
worried he’s gonna piss on his own face, but gravity ca, the lack of gravity to the resc. – It’s a worry that we all have. – It was majestic, yeah. – It was majestic. (laughter) I am here with Bill Nye. Bill, welcome. – Thank you, Jordan, so good to, it really is great to be here. – I am so happy to have you her. – You have a fantastic new
podcast out called Science Rule! – Yes. – I wanna talk to you about
something close to my heart. – Your buttons. – It is my buttons, okay. – Your wristwatch. – I forget, you’re a man
who notices everything. You understand.
– Not everything, but I saw the buttons on the
shirt, not that I’m stare, I have tremendous respect
for you as a person, but it’s not really my thing. – That’s fair. (laughter) I think we would hit it off. I wanna talk about space. – That’s my thing. That is my thing. – It’s an exciting thing. So, I did this whole
season of doing a show. I go out into America. I’ve covered a lot of
movements, a lot of actions, and we hit a point where
we’re like what is something where I can drop any cynicism? Because when you go out into th, there’s a lot of cynicism,
there’s a lot of fighting. – Oh sure there is. Oh right.
(laughter) – And, what I found was,
where I’m not cynical and I still have this sense
of wonder is it’s still based in my childhood desire
to go to space (mumbles) – To be an astronaut! – To be an astronaut, and I
got to talk to a lot of people about this, and the big questios are we gonna go to Mars? – That is a good question. – What do you think? Are we gonna go to Mars?
– Yeah! So, we at the Planetary
Society, world’s largest independent space interest
organization, did a study. We could get people orbiting Ma3 without increasing the NASA budt if you just decided to do it, and the best or cheapest way
to do it would be to have what we call international coopn where one country build this,
the other country builds, or one agency builds this,
the other agency builds that, and you could do it, but
it takes overcoming this tremendous inertia in every
presidential administration. See, what will you people lose , and the Apollo 11 film is
out, the new documentary– – It’s amazing. – It’s cool, it really is gorge. I mean, it’s amazing. It’s just beautiful. – It looks like it was
filmed by Stanley Kubrick. It’s so gorgeous how it’s– – So, that’s an interesting
thing, not changing the subject. 2001, if you’re pickin’
science fiction movies, came the closest anybody’s ever, but that aside, what people for, reckoned in 2019 dollars,
the Apollo program cost about 151 billion, with a B. So, when you say we’re gonna
increase the NASA budget from 21 billion to 22.6
billion, that’s good, but it’s not on the same
scale, and then, people say well, we have all these launchpt and all this infrastructure,
10 NASA centers around the country, but
it’s just not the same. The scale of it, it’s a factor
of six that we’re missing. – Should we invest that
much into the space program? Is the idea of going to Mars,
do you think that would have the benefits that say Apollo 11? – Well, Apollo, everybody,
remember, the Apollo program was the Cold War. That’s what motivated it. You can say well, it’s for
science, for exploration, for humankind has the desire
to reach farther and deeper into space and to know
the cosmos, which is true, but it was to beat the
Rooskies, our, at that time, our enemies (laughs) our enemy. – Yeah, as opposed to our colla. – Yes, yeah, election ballot co, and so, the scale of it is
what I think a lot of people lose sight of. A 5% increase in the NASA budge, and NASA’s not the only game in. By in town, I mean on Earth. European Space Agency is quite . Canadians have a space agency. Vietnam has a space agency. South Africa has a space agency
because everybody realizes the value of weather prediction,
situational awareness, A.K.A. spying, and communicatio,
where you can broadcast or send information from
one side of your country to the other so great value. Space exploration’s changed the, and there are two questions,
Jordan, that we all ask! – Give ’em to me. – Where did we come from? – [Jordan] I’ve asked it. – Where did we come,
what the heck are we do? And, then, are we alone? Are we alone in the universe? – Do you think we’d get
that if we go to Mars? – Well, here’s what is very rea. Is Mars had something
alive, and it may still because Mars is smaller than th. So, out there in the icy
blackness of space, it cooled of faster than the Earth,
about a billion years sooner than the Earth. You can get somethin’
done in a billion years all I’m sayin’, and it had
an atmosphere and an ocean before the Earth. Did life start on Mars
before it started on Earth? Maybe, who knows? And, so, there’s a hypothesis,
which is fantastic, that Mars was hit with
an impactor (slaps fist) – Dinosaur, is that
like a raptor of sorts? – Well, no, like an astroid. – Oh, like Armageddon again. Again, one of the most
scientifically accurate films you’re ever going to see.
– Yes, and then, (whirring)
through a home in orbit, these things came to Earth. You know, you can buy Mars rocke if you’re motivated. – They’re actual Mars rocks? – Yeah, they– – Don’t fall for this, Bill. Those are– – No no, so, you look at the con and the shock pattern in the ro, and then, the other thing, you o Huntsville, Alabama,
crack it open in a vacuum, and the little bubbles of atmos, bubbles of gas come out that
match the martian atmosphere so these are Mars rocks,
and there’s an area, I have not been, but in Antarct, people call the budget space pre ’cause you’re walkin’
along, dressed warmly, and there are rocks on top of t. Now, the ice is kilometers, mil. The only way for the rocks
to get there is from space. So, the Earth was hit with
several, I guess estimates vary, 100,000 tons of dust every
day of interstellar dust, astroid bits, and so,
if life started on Mars, are we descendants of
Martians is a cool question, a fantastic question, so. – That’s a fun question. – It really is. So, we could send, now I’m
at the Planetary Society, I took a class from Carl Sagan, I understand that I was
brought up with this tradition, but I would like us to
design robots, rovers, perfectly tuned for looking
for Martian microbes, and the Mars 2020 rover,
which doesn’t have a whimsic or charming, engaging name
yet has instruments on it that will advance this a little, but I’d like to have a focused . The reason to send people is
first of all, it’s just cool. It’s just inspirational. The Soviet Union was
driving around on the moon, trying to bring moon rocks
back before humans did, but when you get people there, that’s when everybody goes wild, and so, it’s also
estimated, just technically, that what our best rovers
or best science instruments, robotic science instruments
on Mars can do in a week, a human geologist could
do in about a minute or certainly less than five min. – Why is that? Just because human instinct is w what to look for essentially? – Yeah, and actually
literally move quicker and don’t have this remote probm of a seven minute radio delay. So, you put in artificial intele to have it drive around rocks a, but looking for rocks,
and knockin’ ’em open, and finding out what’s inside,
a human just has judgment. So, it would just be
something else to find a layer of fossilized bacteria
on Mars or Mars-crobes as I like to call them, and what if there’s something
still alive under the sand? Wherever there’s dampness on Ea, there is something alive. People throw around numbers, you know there’s a million
viruses on your face? (laughs) And, so– – Those are the worst people by. (laughter) – Well, we have immune
systems for most of ’em so it would really be
extraordinary, and I claim it would change the course of h. It would be like Copernicus shog well, if you really are provingt if you really wanna find where
Jupiter is in the night sky, you oughta think of Jupiter
going around the sun, not the other way around, and
oh no, we can’t publish that. We’d have to kill you, and then, you know, I took this military , which they had for lookin’
at the guys on the other hill before you shot your arrows at m or whatever your Game of
Thrones thing you were doin’, but he took it and looked at th. Hey, the moon’s not really a
perfect circle, it’s full of, oh, you can’t leave the house
for the rest of your life. Okay, but it changed the world. It changed the way everybody
thought about being alive, and I claim that a
discovery of life on Mars, it would just change the world. The other logical places are
Europa, the moon of Jupiter with twice as much ocean water
as Earth and then, Titan, this moon of Saturn,
which has great promise. It has geysers that squirt into. And, so, this kind of
exploration is done for a song. Planetary science at NASA
is $2,000,000 a year. Two point something billion dol. That’s a lot of money, but
it’s not that much money. At European Space Agency,
it’s a third of that or a tenth of that. It’s still a huge amount of
money, but compared to what the federal budget is or a
European, 16-country budget is, it’s nothin’, and it could
change the course of history. So, that’s what we advocate
for at the Planetary Society. – What do you think so
as, I’m somebody who’s not the largest fan of our commande. – Really? – Yeah. – You know, I’ve heard you ment. – He’s done some things
that he might not be the best president we’ve ever h. Now–
– Really? – I don’t, it’s a outlandish
opinion that a comedian has, but I’m not a big Trump fan. One thing he did say, which
was comical in its assertion, but I was inspired by it, was
he talks about going to Mars as a vanity project, and
he said he would throw as much money as anybody
needed to get there if we could get there
before the next election, which is fast. – So, he wanted to go to the mo. – Wanted to go to the moon? – Four and a half years. – Yes. – All right, and so, by the
way, out there in the world of space explorers, there’s
moon people and Mars people. We must go to the moon to
learn to live in space. We must, it’s a proving
ground, and then other people, you don’t need to go to the moo. Let’s go to Mars. We waste time at the moon. Moon has a lot of gravity
so if you land on the moon, you have to build a big rocket
to get back off the moon, blah blah blah. – Are those two separate camps? – They really are, yeah. Fist fights in the exploration . (Jordan laughs) But, going to the moon
in four and half years sounds like a cool
thing, and it would mean ignoring spending caps, which Congress has been
more than willing to do. So, okay, but this, they
just had a big announcement of adding $1.6 billion to the N, which is, that’s good. 5%’s good. At the Planetary Society
we’ve advocated for 5% for a long time, but it’s
not on the scale of Apollo, and the other problem that
has to be solved, you guys, so what, for political reasons,
the whole thing is based on the space launch system. The SLS! Which is a rocket. It’s another name for a
big rocket being built in Rocket City, Huntsville,
Alabama, and it’s built there ’cause a lot of rockets were
built there over the years. There’s where Wernher von
Braun lived for a long time, and meanwhile, you all,
everybody hears about SpaceX, and Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos’ co. They’re gonna do stuff on their, but all of the capsules and
docking things, and hardware, and this proposed lunar
gateway, and gateway is a whimsical term for another
space craft that would be in orbit around the moon the way the International Space Stations
in orbit around the Earth. These are all based on this
diameter, and this system, and these electrical
connectors associated with the Space Launch System. So, you can’t just go get hardw. It’s not like you go on the intt and get another rocket
booster that happens to fit. It’s just not like that. So, the political problems
are very difficult, and, then, the money, and the ps to get the 1.6 billion from Pel. Okay.
(Jordan laughs) See, the Pell Grant money is
set aside, some it’s not spent, but you guys, it’s just,
as they say, bad optics. – It’s absurd idea to ask
for the amount of money it would take to push
to a place like Mars. Do you need somebody who
has absurd-like thinking, like a Donald Trump or somebody- – Or Elon Musk. – Or an Elon Musk. Do you have to be, do you
need somebody who’s crazy to set the sights that far? – Or you need just the
Chinese Space Administration to decide they’re goin’ to the . – So, we just need competition. – That might be, that’s
what happened last time. Everybody, just keep in mind
when you watch the movie, it was the Cold War. That’s why all that stuff got d. – So, we just need the
fact that China landed on the far side of the moon,
the dark side of the moon– – It’s not really dark. – It’s not dark? – Only, yeah, it’s the far side. – That’s not, I listened
to a very specific Led Zeppelin album, and– – No no, I think it was Pink Fl. – Armageddon, have you seen Arm? – It was Pink Floyd, not Led Ze. – I’m kind of a man who’s
sticky about his facts, and it was a Led Zeppelin album. (laughter) Yeah, Led Zeppelin album. I’ll be very clear that
there is a Dark Side– – As sticky as you may be, you’g to the wrong mirror. – Yeah, the Dark of the Moon. – So, the far side of the
moon is dark half the month. – Right, that’s the
first part of the album. (laughter) (Bill clicks tongue) What are you think– (Bill sings) What do you think of Elon Musk? What do you think of all
the private billionaires trying to get there? – I had lunch with Elon Musk. I gave him a ride to the airpor. He’s not my best friend or anyt, but he is a motivated guy. – Wait, you gave him
a ride to the airport? – Yeah yeah, no, I’m the head
of the Planetary Society. I travel in this little world. – You’re a cool guy. I’m not saying you don’t
have the legitimacy to do it. I’m saying as a man
who owns a car company. – Well, this was before his car
company was especially huge. – He’s like I’m workin’ on a ca. Could you give me a ride? – Yeah, that’s how it went, man! (laughter) I took him from a restaurant
in Santa Monica, California to LAX. This was a long time ago,
but it’s a true fact. Not a false fact. Not a (mumbles) fact. – He seems like an inspiring gu. – Big dreams.
– Oh man, he’s a visionary. – Yeah. – Oh yeah, but he is odd. His relationship to the
Securities and Exchange Commissn is one I would not embrace. (Jordan laughs) – Did you give him much
advice on the financial end? – No no no.
– No. – But, I just wouldn’t mess wit. No need to mess with them. – When you look at Blue
Origin, Richard Branson is playing around in the
game, Elon Musk with SpaceX, are any of those do you feel thp to getting to a place like
getting back to the moon or getting to Mars? – Absolutely, oh yeah. So, you guys, Falcon
rockets are fantastic. The SpaceX rockets are fantasti. So, we had an analysis
at the Planetary Society that well, SpaceX couldn’t
break even on this reusable booster. This is where the rocket
goes up and then lands again either at Cape Canaveral on a pt or on this drone ship, a motori. Not a barge, it’s a drone ship! Okay, so, it’s a big thing with. So, in other words, you recover
most of the booster, most, and we said well, he’d never
break even unless they got to 30 a year. Well, they’re kinda getting to , and it’s just long-term
investment and that vision is just really something. So, at the Planetary,
just if I may remind you, we’re gonna be launching our
second solar sails spacecraft no earlier than, that’s NASA
talk, NET, no earlier than the 22nd of June, Saturday,
the 22nd, come on down. You can sit in the bleacher wit. I know a guy. You can get a seat. – You can get me a seat? – I can get you a seat, and
it really is spectacular. It’s amazing. Just everything (imitates rocke) Everything shakes, you’re
hair shakes, your eyes shake, and the thing goes up,
and it goes over the top, as we say, it turns and goes in, and then, these two
boosters come down and land like hell, like science fiction. It’s just amazing, and so,
bear in mind, everybody, that SpaceX is competing with N. Not really. NASA buys rockets from SpaceX,
and this quotation’s been attributed to a couple different
people, but I remember it as being Alan Shepard, and
if it’s not Alan Shepard, I apologize, but he’s walkin’
on the moon, and he says you know, it’s good to realize
that we came here on hardware built by the lowest bidder. (laughter) It’s just a charming turn of ph. Along this line, all the
money that’s spent in space is really spent on Earth. NASA buys rockets from these gu. That’s why there’s how
they stay in business. The Air Force spends a
lot of money on rockets. If you’re in this world, there
are an extraordinary number of rocket launches every
month that most of us just aren’t aware of. Military, all of these
communication satellites, weather satellites, and many
of them, it might even be most of them are commercial. Most of them are commercial now. – I sat down with Scott Kelly
and talked a little bit about – Oh cool. – The overview effect. – The overview effect! Apparently astronauts get in
space, and they get wigged out at how beautiful the Earth is. No political boundaries,
we’re all in this together, get over it. It’s cool. – It’s kind of a nice thing. I think when you look at the
political landscape right now and hear about that kind of per, you’re in for something like th, and it would be pretty fun to g. – So, I applied to be
an astronaut four times, but it was different era. How many PhDs do you have? A, 100 to 300, it’s like
who are, how many marathons have you run this week? It’s just like who are these gu? (laughter) And gals, they’re just
overachieving maniacs. More power to ’em. – And, maybe we need those
kinds of smart people on Earth to help out as well. – So, engineers, renewable
electricity, clean water, access to the internet, solve the
air transportation problem, let’s go! Let’s get ‘er done! – Let get ‘er done. Also, subscribe to Science Rule! – Science Rules! (mumbles)
Stitcher (mumbles) Stitcher (mumbles) turn it up l. Thank you, Jordan. – Thank you, Bill Nye! If you liked listening to this , you’re gonna like watching it e. So, go check out Klepper. It’s on all of your devices,
including your television. Go check it out. Thank you for listening.

5 thoughts on “Bill Nye Explains How We Can Actually Get to Mars – Klepper Podcast

  1. Why the fuck are you talking to Bill Nye as if he's an expert? He has an undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering. That's a fancy way of saying. He's better wrong with your car engine than anything else. I guarantee you he's not gone back and got it further education since you got that undergraduate degrees decades ago. He's not an expert in anything other than being a propaganda puppet and a sack of shit. John Stewart crown of fake news unfunny comedians for anti-American and anti facts and just human sacks of shit

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