Asian Massage Parlor Podcast with attorney Myles Breiner – s1e2

Asian Massage Parlor Podcast with attorney Myles Breiner – s1e2


– This is season one,
episode two of the podcast. I’m here again with
attorney Miles Breiner. Thank you very much for being here. – My pleasure. – Right on. You and I have both seen several waves of indictments against
the Asian massage parlors. What is unique about the way
that the indictments dropped for these specific types of charges? – Generally what we’re seeing
are sealed indictments. Which although legal,
they’re highly problematic for the defendant as well
as for defense counsel because you’re unable to ascertain what the actual charges are. And, if possible, a way
to avoid the charges and enter into negotiations regarding the actual charge defenses. – And on the bail bond
side, it makes it impossible to make arrangements
for somebody to turn in because you could
literally go to a facility and they won’t have a
record of the charges, the indictment, the criminal number, any of that because it’s sealed. It’ll just say Jane Doe number one. And Jane Doe number two. – Precisely. – Yeah, it’s impossible to
actually make arrangements to turn in people so, that’s
also highly problematic for the people who are good Samaritans. They’ve hired the good attorney. They’re cooperating
with the investigation. Yet they don’t know if
they’re just gonna get arrested at any time. – The problem is that use
of a sealed indictment is to leverage the defendant. Get ’em into custody. There’s nothing posted
online that their family or their attorney or bail bond company, like A-1 Bail Bond, could
determine whether or not they’re bailable at that time. Keep in mind that we have a 48 hour time clock that’s ticking. So the person’s essentially
held incommunicado. And this presents a great difficulty for protecting their rights, the right to remain silent, the right to have an attorney present if they’re interviewed. And most people, most
people will fall victim to trying to talk their
way out of custody. And the result is they deprive themselves of an opportunity to fight their case. As well as to have bail,
pending their case. – So are sealed indictments legal? – Sealed indictments are legal. They have a variety of purposes, all of which benefit the prosecutors who obtain the indictments. And they work to the detriment
of the defense attorneys. More importantly, of the defendants. And it makes it impossible, again, for the defendants to be
able to contact family, contact a bail bonds company
and obtain their freedom. Again, it’s optimally
used by the prosecution and by law enforcement
to obtain confessions and cooperation from people
who feel they’ve been back into the corner
and lack the opportunity to have legal counsel and
obtain bail in a timely fashion. – Since you could really
be arrested without notice, please explain some of the advantages to having an attorney monitor
the status of your case or a bail bond company prequalifying you just in case something
happens unexpectedly. – The bottom line is your freedom. If you have an attorney
that’s on the case, that’s contacted the
law enforcement agency that is involved, albeit
it federal authorities or state authorities, or
the prosecutor’s office of the U.S. Attorney, at least it puts you in a position to assure your client that in the event they are gonna be arrested,
you’ll be there for them. And that’s a huge relief for most people. Most people who are facing
this type of problem are incredibly anxious. And they’re anxious because
it’s a void or information. And the key is to get as much information, as many facts as you can, so that the attorney can
properly advise the client. And the client feels
comfortable with the decisions they have to make going forward. – And on the bail side, unfortunately, when you
have a sealed indictment you could technically just get arrested some time in the morning
without any warning. Having the information and
knowing who I need to bail out is critical because you might
only get one phone call, to your attorney or to your family. And the fact that I
might recognize the name, have a file, know exactly that
they’ve come in to my office, now I can go ahead, bail them out. And then we’ll figure
everything else out after. The key thing is to just
get them out of custody because nobody wants to be in custody, hoping that they could get out. – The most common scenario would be, the state authorities are working in conjunction with the
federal authorities. The person is picked up
on a sealed indictment or a sealed warrant. And then their family can’t
determine where they are. The attorney, the bail
bonds company, and no one who should be able to
ascertain the location can find out where they are. And that presents a real problem because that means the
client is being isolated. And most likely
manipulated and intimidated by law enforcement so they
can obtain a confession that later on most likely
will not be suppressed. – So in your opinion, is it really necessary
to seal indictments, especially with all the unnecessary things that happen because of it. – There’s two sides of this equation. From the defense perspective, I’m adamant that sealed indictments are inappropriate and they only benefit the prosecution. That being said, having been a prosecutor, I can see the purpose behind this. It gives you an advantage. It gives you a significant advantage getting the information,
and possibly the confession and cooperation so that by the time they do make contact with
an attorney, it’s too late. – So say you’re at the point where you were just named in a report or the police came to your massage parlor and you’re just one of the
gals who happens to work there. At that point that you
are named in a report, what do you think the best action right at that point is? – This is a general
principle across the board. If you are the subject
of an investigation, if your name comes up in a police report, or word gets to you that the
police or law enforcement are looking into your
activities, your business, your personal life, get legal counsel. Get in touch with the bail bonds company. Most of the bail bonds company
will want to speak with you. Certainly, like A-1 Bail
Bond, you can go online, fill the information out. That’s critical being proactive. And proactive criminal
defense is really critical. And that’s one of the
advantages of having access to a bail bond company
that has an active website. Get the information to
the bail bond company so in the event, in the
event you or a loved one is placed in custody, more likely than not they’ll be able to bail them out. Certainly if it’s a state case. – So is it typical for
the prosecutor’s office to overcharge the people involved in these massage parlor raids? – I would say as a general
principle a prosecutor’s office generally use overcharging of cases as a principle of conducting business. It’s sad but the reality is, they’ll overcharge a case,
have a good argument for that. And then later on, they know full well they can’t prove that particular count, or they know it’s gonna get dumped by the court more likely than not. But it occurs and it’s used as leverage to compel someone’s cooperation. – So the way that, I guess, public safety is being upheld now through these raids of the massage parlors,
putting them on the news, humiliating the people involved. Is there a smarter way
to go after these people? For example, going after the landlord who’s letting this business
occur on their watch. – Historically, it’s virtually impossible to dictate and legislate
human sexual behavior. Prostitution, in particular,
I’m of the opinion it should be legalized and taxed. In any event, it’s not. It’s a crime to conduct prostitution, a prostitution operation. The attraction for the prosecutor’s office in various counties to
proceed with these cases is more of a political and social issue. It looks good. It looks good to the media. It’s something that the
prosecutors can take to the public and say, “Look what we’re doing. “We’re the moral barometer
for the community. “And we’re gonna uphold
community standards.” The fact of the matter is,
take Hawaii for example, massage parlors and strip clubs are part and parcel of our local culture. And it’s not gonna go away any time soon. And periodically raiding these places is demonstratively a waste of public funds and certainly a waste of the time for the courts and the police. – We’ve done a lot of these cases. You’ve won a lot of these cases. We’ve all met and gotten
to know the clients who are involved in these cases. I feel as though at a certain level, a majority of ’em are
just collateral damage. It’s these older Asian women who are involved in the indictment. You could have anywhere from seven, 10, 12, 15 different co-defendants. When I feel as though there’s really just one person they’re going after. – Well, the reality is that, the prosecutors and the attorney general have characterized this as an effort to stamp out human trafficking. The fact is, the truth is, people that engage in
the massage business, with the spas and with the strip clubs. They’re doing it voluntarily
and intentionally. I’ve yet to see a single case of anyone arrested or prosecuted
for promoting prostitution, engaging in prostitution,
did not do it willingly, knowingly and intelligently. They do this for a particular reason. There’s a great number of people that enjoy that particular
type of activity. And it’s, in some essence, in some sense, it’s a victimless crime. – Yeah, I just feel bad
because I always have these older Asian women
who are clearly not racketeering because they’re
not the owner of the spa. They’re, I guess by the letter of the law, engaging in some sort of
prostitution activity, even though they themselves
are not prostitutes. But they get charged with the big three. Promoting prostitution
as if they’re these pimps who are beating up women who
are walking on the street and trafficking them between states. They get charged with
promoting prostitution when it’s really just an older Asian lady who answers a door and
collects a house fee. – Keep in mind, prior to
Hawaii becoming a state, prostitution was legal. In fact, some of the early
attorneys working in the state as private attorney generals, actually owned some of the brothels here in the islands. The reality is, you can not
legislate human sexuality. Prostitution is the oldest profession. That and being a politician. – So I know you’ve had
a lot of these cases. And I’ve seen that you’ve
had really good results. Do you have any idea what your record is? Are you undefeated? Have you gotten favorable
outcomes every single time? What’s your– – I’m happy with the
outcome in my practice. I’ve been successful, fortunately. And I’ve yet to have any of my clients who have been charged with
those cases actually go to jail. So I would say, yes. – Very good. And I noticed that because I
have a whole bunch of files. I usually try my best to bail
out all the co-defendants. Usually because they hire
great attorneys like you. And I’ve noticed, case dismissed. Or a nol. pros. or probation, deferral. When I close the file, I notice all those. And I just thought it
was worthwhile to notice that you are one of the top attorneys that seems to always get good
results for their clients. – There are lots of good
attorneys in Honolulu. And we all have the same goal in mind, which is to protect our client’s rights. The interesting question in
all these prostitution cases is that the city and the state never go after the owners of the property. And the owners of the
property know full well who they’re leasing these properties to and what the purpose is behind that lease. Many of these people are
well connected, as we say. And their influence goes far. Far enough that they never get charged even though they are, in
essence, clearly engaging in a racketeering related business. – Yeah, I’ve always thought
if you just went after the property owner,
and they had the threat of losing their $500,000 apartment or their million dollar building, they would mind the shop. They’d pay attention to
who’s actually renting. They could rid them from renting. And the payout is tremendous. No matter how much cash
you can get discreetly from leasing out to a massage parlor and I know that they’re
jacking up the rates and doing that. Losing your property’s never worth it. So I feel like you could eradicate it by going after the land owner. Not the poor gals who are working there. – And the information, the information who owns the properties is readily accessible. So to go online, you can
see who’s paying the taxes. Who’s the registered
owner of that property. None of these people are being prosecuted. And it’s been a consistent problem with all these prostitution
cases that we have. Women that are engaging in a
technically illegal activity but doing it voluntarily. Yet the owners of the property, the people that own these properties, those are the ones that are reaping huge benefits
– Yes. – Are never brought into court. And there’s lots of reasons to do that. We have civil forfeiture statutes. There are federal and state means to stop this if they
were serious about it. So, I submit, law enforcement and the sporadic and
intermittent enforcement of the anti-prostitution laws is really a ruse and is designed merely to garner public support for the political ambitions of our prosecutors. – Just in general, to fight prostitution, and we all want to unilaterally be against the scenario where a
man is forcing a woman to do sexual acts and
trafficking her internationally or between states. We all want that to never happen. But is there any way
that you could think of besides what we’re doing now, which is humiliating people, putting them on the news, you know what I mean? What would be the better option than that? – I fully endorse
legalizing establishments analogous to what’s done
in Europe and Portugal, Spain, in the Netherlands
where you legalize it. You manage it. You require health certificates. You have inspectors go in. And it becomes a civil
issue, not a criminal issue. As far as human trafficking, we need to go after the people that are producing child pornography. Not the people that are viewing it, but the people that are
actually producing it. We need to go after the people that are forcing young girls into
prostitution on the streets, and transporting them around the country. And no one is gonna think otherwise. Those are the people that
need to be prosecuted. But having legalized massage parlors and spas and strip clubs… It’s a waste of public funds. And the public really needs to stand up and force the legislators
to make a difference and change the law. – Absolutely. Thank you very much for
your time, Mr. Breiner. All right. (cool music)

1 thought on “Asian Massage Parlor Podcast with attorney Myles Breiner – s1e2

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *